Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I side with pessimistic_freak on this one. Eren was already holding Reiner in a lock before Mikasa did anything, and he had already broken his arm. Moreover Eren always won against Reiner in melee combat.

There is nothing that suggests that Reiner was having (or that he would have) the upper hand in that fight.

Not to mention Eren beat him during the training too. But not Annie, cause the two got their arses whooped by her. xD

[ArturEngel]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Not to mention Eren beat him during the training too. But not Annie, cause the two got their arses whooped by her. xD

The reason why Eren has beaten him is, that he has learned how to do it from Annie.

[Uchiha Kesuke]

Originally Posted by ArturEngel

The reason why Eren has beaten him is, that he has learned how to do it from Annie.

It doesnt matter who learned you to beat someone up . If you beat someone up , you beat someone up .

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ArturEngel

The reason why Eren has beaten him is, that he has learned how to do it from Annie.

Undoubtedly. Eren was already pretty good at fighting to begin with, but Reiner is objectively physically stronger. He weighs a lot more than Eren and he is taller.

The same disparity in terms of raw strength most likely exists in their respective titan forms, but the fighting techniques Eren learned from Annie give him the upper hand in both cases.

You'd wonder why Reiner never tried to learn those techniques too...

[Uchiha Kesuke]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

but the fighting techniques Eren learned from Annie give him the upper hand in both cases.

You'd wonder why Reiner never tried to learn those techniques too...

Well its one thing to learn techniques but its another thing to really use it in a battle ..

[Anh_Minh]

I may have to reread, but I though Reiner did know those techniques, but hid that fact. That's why Eren could beat him, and why Eren called him out on his hypocrisy of claiming a soldier shouldn't train seriously.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Undoubtedly. Eren was already pretty good at fighting to begin with, but Reiner is objectively physically stronger. He weighs a lot more than Eren and he is taller.

The same disparity in terms of raw strength most likely exists in their respective titan forms, but the fighting techniques Eren learned from Annie give him the upper hand in both cases.

You'd wonder why Reiner never tried to learn those techniques too...

Another reason why Eren was pretty good at fighting was also thanks to his history of brawling against the bullies who bullied Armin for a numerous time. That's why he had earned some of the street fighting skills before he joined the ranks of the armed force.

Poor Reiner... he even got his ass handed to Eren too, despite of his well-built physical body. No offense, though.

PS: I gotta say, Reiner is being a messed-up hypocrite recently. His argument with Eren has compromised his dramatic irony behind his words.

[BoyTitan]

Crap chapter is crap if this is where the series is going to go I should just drop it. I expect this kind of crap from bleach.

Let me just point out the many flaws. Plot delaying and unrealistic dialogue check. Reiner is loosing his mind yet was able to out smart ymir and instantly make her shift over to his side come on that is P.I.S. Eren is angry just for the sake of not being able to ask coherent questions sorry but some one in a rage induced fit acts on impulse and acts as a unpredictable factor that can completely compromise a situation,perfect example of this is Gon in hunter x hunter during the chimera ant ark he compromised the safety of a innocent,his life,and his friends life when confronted with the person who killed his friend and was a ticking time bomb 1 wrong word or 1 lie or not listening to a demand he gave and blood was being spilled period,Yet Eren is being yelled at lied to and not given information and just siting idle ya ok. Why if ymir was going to use Eren to escape would she calm him down she is not even thinking realistic,Ymir is just being smart for convenience to stall the plot because the smart thing to do would have been let Eren go on a titan rampage because it would also put Berthold and Reiner in a position where they have to protect him regardless of 3d gear they clearly can not afford eren to die so they wouldn't just not help and escape to safety and they didn't have to fight to win out escape just hold out till the scouts come to get them since eren is their biggest asset.

This was clear Plot insinuated stupidity story prolonging garbage there is nothing smart or skillful in this.Why have a chapter about talking if you are not going to give any answers,Why even bring em but to get the fans who put up with such garbage excited about whats going to happen next. Yes the writer is so smart we have no clue whats going on yea because lately he has been breaking basic writing standards and giving us all potatoes and no meat to the story. No amount of foreshadowing makes that good. Bleach has foreshadowing is it good HECKS NO,Proper foreshadowing is when something big happens yet no one saw it coming but we still had a nice lengthy story to occupy us ,again I have to bring up hunter x hunter early foreshadow of the outside world. When your foreshadows constantly become a topic of discussion and there are several of em your doing something wrong.

You didn't even have to have what Reiner had to tell Eren be right, idk ever hear of a thing called plot twist what if He told eren something really good to get him to side with him and we all find out it is false later o-0. Na just shoot your readers hot air instead screw effort and story telling.

Oh and Yes ymir the 2 guys with no clue how to get home can offer your friend protection and save the world sure why not go traitor just to grab the readers in and give em no answers at the last second.

Hmm I should do a manga sins thing like cinema sins or moesucks blog to point out the flaws in mangas or start a blog on it since a ton of people miss em for some reason when they are plain as day. Have Eren be completely clueless of just how much power he holds in this situation ya sure the guy who killed 2 adults as a kid on smarts alone is to dumb to see he is holding on the cards sure what ever SCREW THIS CRAP. Ugh the more I type the more rage inducing flaws I find.

Yes there was very minor plot development here but the amount of flaws here just far out do what was done right and my friend was calling this series out for this stuff way before I did. I just noticed it this chapter. Just to say it 1 more time this chapter was total crap.

[ArturEngel]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Crap chapter is crap if this is where the series is going to go I should just drop it. I expect this kind of crap from bleach.

Let me just point out the many flaws. Plot delaying and unrealistic dialogue check. Reiner is loosing his mind yet was able to out smart ymir and instantly make her shift over to his side come on that is P.I.S. Eren is angry just for the sake of not being able to ask coherent questions sorry but some one in a rage induced fit acts on impulse and acts as a unpredictable factor that can completely compromise a situation,perfect example of this is Gon in hunter x hunter during the chimera ant ark he compromised the safety of a innocent,his life,and his friends life when confronted with the person who killed his friend and was a ticking time bomb 1 wrong word or 1 lie or not listening to a demand he gave and blood was being spilled period,Yet Eren is being yelled at lied to and not given information and just siting idle ya ok. Why if ymir was going to use Eren to escape would she calm him down she is not even thinking realistic,Ymir is just being smart for convenience to stall the plot because the smart thing to do would have been let Eren go on a titan rampage because it would also put Berthold and Reiner in a position where they have to protect him regardless of 3d gear they clearly can not afford eren to die so they wouldn't just not help and escape to safety and they didn't have to fight to win out escape just hold out till the scouts come to get them since eren is their biggest asset.

This was clear Plot insinuated stupidity story prolonging garbage there is nothing smart or skillful in this.Why have a chapter about talking if you are not going to give any answers,Why even bring em but to get the fans who put up with such garbage excited about whats going to happen next. Yes the writer is so smart we have no clue whats going on yea because lately he has been breaking basic writing standards and giving us all potatoes and no meat to the story. No amount of foreshadowing makes that good. Bleach has foreshadowing is it good HECKS NO,Proper foreshadowing is when something big happens yet no one saw it coming but we still had a nice lengthy story to occupy us ,again I have to bring up hunter x hunter early foreshadow of the outside world. When your foreshadows constantly become a topic of discussion and there are several of em your doing something wrong.

You didn't even have to have what Reiner had to tell Eren be right, idk ever hear of a thing called plot twist what if He told eren something really good to get him to side with him and we all find out it is false later o-0. Na just shoot your readers hot air instead screw effort and story telling.

Oh and Yes ymir the 2 guys with no clue how to get home can offer your friend protection and save the world sure why not go traitor just to grab the readers in and give em no answers at the last second.

Hmm I should do a manga sins thing like cinema sins or moesucks blog to point out the flaws in mangas or start a blog on it since a ton of people miss em for some reason when they are plain as day. Have Eren be completely clueless of just how much power he holds in this situation ya sure the guy who killed 2 adults as a kid on smarts alone is to dumb to see he is holding on the cards sure what ever SCREW THIS CRAP. Ugh the more I type the more rage inducing flaws I find.

Yes there was very minor plot development here but the amount of flaws here just far out do what was done right and my friend was calling this series out for this stuff way before I did. I just noticed it this chapter. Just to say it 1 more time this chapter was total crap.

Why are you complaining without even knowing how the story ends?

[pessimistic_freak]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Eren is angry just for the sake of not being able to ask coherent questions sorry but some one in a rage induced fit acts on impulse and acts as a unpredictable factor that can completely compromise a situation,perfect example of this is Gon in hunter x hunter during the chimera ant ark

But Eren is not Gon. You are expecting two characters from two different stories to act the same way. And Eren is angry because Reiner & Berthold, specifically Berthold is responsible for his mom's death. How could you forget that?

Why if ymir was going to use Eren to escape would she calm him down she is not even thinking realistic,Ymir is just being smart for convenience to stall the plot because the smart thing to do would have been let Eren go on a titan rampage because it would also put Berthold and Reiner in a position where they have to protect him regardless of 3d gear they clearly can not afford eren to die so they wouldn't just not help and escape to safety and they didn't have to fight to win out escape just hold out till the scouts come to get them since eren is their biggest asset.

So you think with those two being occupied with Eren Ymir can escape cleanly? She still has to think about what Reiner said, that whether or not she could still transform. And if not, she would just waste Eren away. I don't know her plan but I do agree with the flow of this chapter that until nightfall when normal titans stop moving, it's still not proper for her to take action.

Even with that reason aside, I wonder if Ymir is really such a cold person who wouldn't care AT ALL for anyone aside from Krista to just use Eren's life like that.

Crap chapter is crap if this is where the series is going to go I should just drop it.

You sure you didn't just typed this out of temporary frustration? But nobody would stop you, though. Do whatever you like.

For me, crap chapter would be Eren not letting out his anger towards Berthold who was directly responsible for his mom's death and initiated his hatred towards all titans, so I'm pretty much satisfied. But even if he didn't, I have to consider the circumstances. If it made sense then it should still be ok.

Yes there was very minor plot development here but the amount of flaws here just far out do what was done right and my friend was calling this series out for this stuff way before I did. I just noticed it this chapter. Just to say it 1 more time this chapter was total crap.

When the author didn't give you something you hoped for and you call it total crap. Sorry, I disagree. And just to let you know, the author already had it all planned out when to reveal stuff all the way until the end. Who are you to make your own call?

Sorry if I sound harsh but I think your argument is full with emotion rather than good reason.

[darklegends8]

It was kind of a disappointing chapter for me too, character interactions are alright, but nothing really happens or is revealed.

[desrtsku]

@boyTitan I have a test tomorrow so I'll make it short : you're contradicting yourself many times in your post, you need to re-read this chapter because you forgot a lot of details (like Eren being out of stamina, etc).

In details,

1-Reiner is clinically "crazy" but not like what you think. "Mentally retarded" and "mentally unstable" aren't the same thing. Reiner is mentally untable, he has some kind of personality disorder. However, his state doesn't make him in anyway unable to think correctly, he's just damn deluded about certain social aspect of his life. Case in point, a sociopath is a mentally unstable person but is in fact really smart, calm and cold hearted.
That argument is invalid.

2-a) You pointed out that rage induced people act uncontrollably and unpredictably, and pointed out how Eren stayed still when being yelled at. You completely forgot that he tried to transform once and would have gone on rampage if ymir didn't stop him, yelled like one hell of a madman when Reiner talked about how he changed and swear to kill them. And goddamnit, that happened after he said he was going to suppress his emotions. What would have happened if he was serious?

b)And I don't want to be rude but you completely forgot Eren's situation : he has no limbs, he has no stamina left (he could barely regenerate / Reiner - supported by Ymir - even said he couldn't have been able to transform in his current state). So what do you think he could have done other than yelling? It's true he's demented but not retarded, and like I said Ymir already calmed him. His behaviour is realistic considering his character and the situation, anything else means his death. Same for Ymir.

c) Eren asked a coherent questions like "who is the enemy?" You pointed it out yourself. That other argument you proposed is invalid.

d) You illustrated your point with Gon : that's just wrong. They are people with completely different characterization and have gone through totally different experiences. If I take our example I can call BS on HxH because most of the badasses from the FMA cast like Edward Elric, Roy Mustang, Wrath or Scar can still think properly even when they're goddamn mad.

3- a) For your next paragraph, I'd say that it's just your opinion. We had a few confirmation and open room for speculations this chapter ... and it's not like every single chapter has to be plot heavy, this one was mostly character driven. And that makes more sense this way, considering those guys couldn't possibly have a smooth conversation after everything that happened previously.
Of course you are free to think that mentally unstable soldier (Reiner), his genocidal mate (Bertold) and an equally unstable rage induced murderer (Eren) could seriously get anywhere by themselves after they just had a life or death battle. But then, don't expect me to go easy on you and your opinion of "what good writing" is if you are to use that as an argument during a debate.

b) You talk like you know a lot about literature and how good writing is supposed to be. Then you should know that at the end of chapter 42 we had two characters (Ymir and Christoria) who could give us information. From the reader's perceptive. It just mean either :
-they both have the same info but one will die/stay quiet
-they have different info that complete themselves.
If Ymir shuts her mouth, then Christoria will likely give a few answers to us.

c) Going by your standards, FMA sure has bad writing for killing Hughes really early on in the story just because he understood everything from the very beginning, and that even though us reader were eager to know it. SnK has an even worse one because all Ymir said was a word that begins with "Se-" or "sei-" (which was written in hiragana) before Reiner cut her. Of course no one knew that, especially not the Japanese readers who are the primary target of a Japanese manga. And even fewer people knows that the Japanese for suspicious words like "government" begins with a "Sei-", especially not the Japanese readers who speak Japanese. Really awful, isn't it?
We have zero answers, zero things to speculate with, zero hints, nothing big revealed explicitly or implicitly ... no wait ... I think just said something big that I got from lurking about this chapter, so I guess another one of your arguments is invalidated.

4- Saying something to Eren that is totally false to make him go to his side? Like what? You said it yourself, Eren killed two grown up people for kidnapping a girl and killing her parents. Do you think he'll side with the guys responsible of the death of hundred thousands of people including his mother no matter what they said? Did you forgot how he threatened to kill them? ...

[hyper_oats]

Take a break from SnK and come back in a year or so, the story will have advanced significantly by then. Marathoning the entire manga, then expecting every next chapter to be a big reveal is only going to leave you dissatisfied.

[Xero8420]

@BoyTitan
Wow, to what extend you made this lengthy rant just to complain about something that isn't what you were expecting? Survival horror sh!ts? Something 'fabulous' that is so much 'different' than any of the series?

Face it, you sounded rather more impatient and pessimistic than a cynical critic by looking at your rant. You're just wasting your time looking for the flaws and the negativity. You should have know that nothing in this world is perfect. If you wanted to create a 'ranting' blog and insist to stay what you are right now; alright, have you way then, so be it, and good luck with that.

PS:-
@desrtsku

There's another hint that Ymir might tried to say:

聖壁教会

Seiheki Kyoukai ---> Church of the Holy Walls

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

@boyTitan I have a test tomorrow so I'll make it short : you're contradicting yourself many times in your post, you need to re-read this chapter because you forgot a lot of details (like Eren being out of stamina, etc).

In details,

1-Reiner is clinically "crazy" but not like what you think. "Mentally retarded" and "mentally unstable" aren't the same thing. Reiner is mentally untable, he has some kind of personality disorder. However, his state doesn't make him in anyway unable to think correctly, he's just damn deluded about certain social aspect of his life. Case in point, a sociopath is a mentally unstable person but is in fact really smart, calm and cold hearted.
That argument is invalid.

2-a) You pointed out that rage induced people act uncontrollably and unpredictably, and pointed out how Eren stayed still when being yelled at. You completely forgot that he tried to transform once and would have gone on rampage if ymir didn't stop him, yelled like one hell of a madman when Reiner talked about how he changed and swear to kill them. And goddamnit, that happened after he said he was going to suppress his emotions. What would have happened if he was serious?

b)And I don't want to be rude but you completely forgot Eren's situation : he has no limbs, he has no stamina left (he could barely regenerate / Reiner - supported by Ymir - even said he couldn't have been able to transform in his current state). So what do you think he could have done other than yelling? It's true he's demented but not retarded, and like I said Ymir already calmed him. His behaviour is realistic considering his character and the situation, anything else means his death. Same for Ymir.

c) Eren asked a coherent questions like "who is the enemy?" You pointed it out yourself. That other argument you proposed is invalid.

d) You illustrated your point with Gon : that's just wrong. They are people with completely different characterization and have gone through totally different experiences. If I take our example I can call BS on HxH because most of the badasses from the FMA cast like Edward Elric, Roy Mustang, Wrath or Scar can still think properly even when they're goddamn mad.

3- a) For your next paragraph, I'd say that it's just your opinion. We had a few confirmation and open room for speculations this chapter ... and it's not like every single chapter has to be plot heavy, this one was mostly character driven. And that makes more sense this way, considering those guys couldn't possibly have a smooth conversation after everything that happened previously.
Of course you are free to think that mentally unstable soldier (Reiner), his genocidal mate (Bertold) and an equally unstable rage induced murderer (Eren) could seriously get anywhere by themselves after they just had a life or death battle. But then, don't expect me to go easy on you and your opinion of "what good writing" is if you are to use that as an argument during a debate.

b) You talk like you know a lot about literature and how good writing is supposed to be. Then you should know that at the end of chapter 42 we had two characters (Ymir and Christoria) who could give us information. From the reader's perceptive. It just mean either :
-they both have the same info but one will die/stay quiet
-they have different info that complete themselves.
If Ymir shuts her mouth, then Christoria will likely give a few answers to us.

c) Going by your standards, FMA sure has bad writing for killing Hughes really early on in the story just because he understood everything from the very beginning, and that even though us reader were eager to know it. SnK has an even worse one because all Ymir said was a word that begins with "Se-" or "sei-" (which was written in hiragana) before Reiner cut her. Of course no one knew that, especially not the Japanese readers who are the primary target of a Japanese manga. And even fewer people knows that the Japanese for suspicious words like "government" begins with a "Sei-", especially not the Japanese readers who speak Japanese. Really awful, isn't it?
We have zero answers, zero things to speculate with, zero hints, nothing big revealed explicitly or implicitly ... no wait ... I think just said something big that I got from lurking about this chapter, so I guess another one of your arguments is invalidated.

4- Saying something to Eren that is totally false to make him go to his side? Like what? You said it yourself, Eren killed two grown up people for kidnapping a girl and killing her parents. Do you think he'll side with the guys responsible of the death of hundred thousands of people including his mother no matter what they said? Did you forgot how he threatened to kill them? ...

There is still the major flaw and the fact they really need Eren alive meaning he could easily put his life on the line or threaten to for the sake of information. As I said he is holding all the cards and has not played a single one, powers or not day time is the perfect time to put Reiner and Berthold in a very tight spot. Waiting till night takes his biggest trump card of being able to endanger his life and force Reiner and Berthold into action,well not actually do it just force the option doing. Eren having no power left could be a bluff, from their earlier reactions of the wild titan as Eren I am assuming they do not fully understand his powers.Idk I was just taught that when some one brings a gun to a argument bring a bigger gun,maybe I am expecting Eren to react to this situation by means above his intelligence level. Finnallyif they don't fall for his bluff it's last ditch resort actually do it and from there it is sink or swim,bite yourself to transform and if that does not work jump down and force them to save you which will take them a good amount of time by the time they kill all the titans reinforcements will have arrived.

You compare this to fma but you know what fma had that this didn't visible antagonist to keep us occupied yes some of the big bads were introduced later but we had other antags to keep us interest based on their motives. This series is on 40+ chapters and still using the faceless enemy schtick.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

There is still the major flaw and the fact they really need Eren alive meaning he could easily put his life on the line or threaten to for the sake of information.

We don't know how much they really need Eren. And what's he going to do to threaten his own life? Jump? They can catch him. Bite his own tongue? His regeneration will take care of it. And if he makes too much of a pest of himself, they can always knock him out.

He holds no cards, and not just because he has no hands to hold them with. Right now the only thing he has going for him is that Reiner sometimes forget they're enemies. It's a pretty damn unreliable advantage, especially since Bertholt has no such problem.

[Jan-Poo]

I think they do indeed need Eren a lot. Berthold rarely gets out of his detachment but when Eren was going to bite his arm he literally jumped on his feet and told him to stop yelling.

No, it would be pretty bad for them if Eren died, but not an absolute defeat, and it would be a lot worse for Eren himself.

That's not really a good card, when everyone knows that Eren has absolutely nothing to gain from killing himself.
And it isn't just for the obvious fact that he would lose his own life, but also because that would leave Reiner and Berthold with no alternatives but their first plan which involves the total destruction of the walled country.

The only way Eren could pull it off with such bluff is by pretending that he's become insane.

[desrtsku]

@Boytitan he holds all the cards? What cards? Do you really believe he can put his life of the line in this situation? He even said himself that Reiner and Bert could immobilize them the instant he tries to do something.
Well, the others already said what should be said about that, so I won't waste my time on that.

However, did You really just say that SnK didn't have any visible antagonist? Are you even serious or just blindly shitposting for the sake of shitposting? What is the big monkey to you?

[hyper_oats]

Eren has an extremely strong will to live, he's not going to threaten them with suicide for some information. What he could do is threaten to fight right then and there if they don't start explaining. But as said by Ymir, he's at a severe disadvantage and Bert and Reiner might choose to keep their mouths shut. The two are not out of the woods yet and if Eren escapes, he'll reveal their secrets to the Scouting Legion.

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think they do indeed need Eren a lot. Berthold rarely gets out of his detachment but when Eren was going to bite his arm he literally jumped on his feet and told him to stop yelling.

No, it would be pretty bad for them if Eren died, but not an absolute defeat, and it would be a lot worse for Eren himself.

That's not really a good card, when everyone knows that Eren has absolutely nothing to gain from killing himself.
And it isn't just for the obvious fact that he would lose his own life, but also because that would leave Reiner and Berthold with no alternatives but their first plan which involves the total destruction of the walled country.

The only way Eren could pull it off with such bluff is by pretending that he's become insane.

He free falls I am 100% sure the titans take action thus making it so reiner and bert have to fight the forest titans, Reinforcements scouts come pic off a tired Reiner and Bert save Eren. He does not actually have to full on want to die just make them think he does.Still a usable card. They were able to destroy the town years ago when it lacked experienced soldiers. They are missing Annie to call for other titans. Destroying the town would be a bigger risk of their lives right now than trying to save Eren would it would be 2 vs a army and they would be fighting on a time limit. They don't even know if they will find what they want in the town while they know for a fact they have it with Eren. But Eren does not know they need Annie to call for other titans and passively control them and he is not batman level smart to put the pieces that are there together to figure it out if they said if he does not settle down they would just kill everyone in the wall to get what they want he would probably believe them and settle down.


I ment the monkey is a invisible antag because we know nothing about him. Plus we don't even know if Reiner and Bert or bad guys or doing something for a greater good. Other titans are brainless.


Hmm now that I think of it why did the author make it so people could figure out Annie was the one who called the titans to the wall way back unless Eren figures that out now and does what I say he should have done next chapter I don't see how Annies ability plays into the story.

Also you guys seem to be forgetting free falling is plan b plan a is bite yourself and see if you can transform, we do not 100% know if eren can't transform. Why would calm old Bert spazz out before Eren bit himself if he can't transform ? As I stated none of them acted fully aware of Eren when he first transformed and had general looks of shock when he transformed. Plus Eren has not been tired from transforming since the first time he transformed. Look at the amount of damage he took the first time he transformed and how that tired him out and how vs annie and reiner he lost limbs multiple times and was able to still fight. But look what happened to Ymir when she took a tone of damage his titan form is different from theirs.

Plan A and Plan B both have at least a 50% chance of winning so should be tried,hell him sitting still does not sound like him his motto after all is you can only die if you do nothing or if your weak if you are strong you live. If Eren takes action next chapter I am throwing out my yellow card for stalling.

Again on the note of them destroying everyone in the walls notice even with Annie the 2nd time they attacked they did it when all the scouts were gone I doubt that is a coincidence if they took such precautions in their attacks with their biggest trump card in annies ability to call and have somewhat docile control over titans so the titans don't attack them also,no way in hell they break the wall in there next attack with out Annie,hell attacking would most likely be suicide. See this isn't just baseless hating I made sure to put points together before determining Eren has the upper hand here.