Macross Frontier - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Wesley84]

Dadelus attack!!!

[Westlo]

I loved how they turned the Dadelus attack against them late in the series.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

It isn't. That is why I said, again ""Macross weapon systems in general aren't very flashy, with the sole exception to the Itano circus of course"

Btw, even Gundam machines do equip Itano-ish missiles.

But beyond missiles, Macross weapon systems are generally fairly conventional in their use.

- Tak

Spoiler for APPALE GENKI ITANO CIRCUS:

You were saying...

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Dadelus attack!!!

You're doing it wrong! DAEDALUS ATTACK!

Though these days Diamond Squadron does it with much more style.

MACHIDA PUNCH!

Which is much cooler than Diamond Force's "GAMLIN KICK!"

[dahak]

Originally Posted by Tak

Amuro piloted probably close to half-dozen Gundams throughout his career as a pilot. Hikaru on the other hand, piloted 1 basic fighter type for the entirety of the original 1982 Macross.

Your reading comprehension has failed again and your not comparing like with like.

In the original 1979 Gundam Amuro pilots all of one Gundam. In the original 1982 Macross Hikaru pilots 4 different veritech varients and has both the add on packs.

That Amuro flies other mechs in later series is identical to Miriya flying things that are not a Quadrono Rau in Macross 7. Or DRYL's additional pack type vs the 81-82 Gundam Movies abolition of the Beam Javelin, Gundam Hammer and B Parts.

Originally Posted by zalem

That's not a real upgrade Gundam style though (at least recent Gundam style).

It's the original Gundam. Seed and the various strangenesses within are not for another decade. They cannot have influenced SDF's variety of hero piloted hardware.

Since 79 over two TV series, a movie, an alternative universe novel of that movie and multiple web shorts, spanning three or four wars and a dozen years Amuro has piloted IIRC:
RX-78 Gundam [MSG and Evolve]
MSK-008 Dijeh [Zeta]
RMS-099 Rick Dias [Zeta]
MSZ-006 Gundam Zeta [Green Divers and Evolve]
RGZ-91 Re-GZ [CCA]
RX-93 Nu Gundam [CCA]/ RX-93-2 Hi Nu Gundam [Beltorchika's Children]

Plus a core fighter [MSG] and a cargo jet [Zeta]

I make that four Gundams and two mass produced Trooper units. In all that lot he's lost less mechs than either Hikaru or Alto [The RX-78 and the RX-93, plus the cargo jet.].

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Outside of number of lasers and the shape of the heads, there were no main differences though between the VF-1A, VF-1J, and VF-1S.

The VF-1S did look cooler though.

They are different Model kits as is the VT-1D. Each of the three transformation modes for each have been seperate model kits in the same range [Imai IIRC] with an extra one for the Armored VF-1J and a set of six more for the the VF-1J and VF-1S in Super pack. [Plus different coloured versions for Max and Miriya]

The Original Macross had more Hero mech designs and less villian mech designs than the Original Gundam. SEED on the other and irrelevant hand set a high water mark for extra designs that even Super Robot Wars Original Generation Divine Wars found hard to exceed.

[zalem]

True, but I still don't think he'll be piloting a V-27 unless he decides on becoming a cyborg. Or unless they can adjust it for human use and if they do that it probably won't be as fast as Brera's.

[Sleepy100]

Tak

Maybe the Macross series is down to earth when compared to modern existing technology. Still I think that some Gundam isn't all that far fetched. (Cyclops System, Hi-Mat, Genesis, Beam Guns). Then again I'm comparing Gundam to say Cybuster, Mazingar, Gao Gai Gar, Gigantic Formula, Yuusha Raideen, well you get the idea.

P.S Put Tekkaman Blade on the list of far fetched mecha. However, if you wish to argue which mecha series is the most down to earth I would say Gunparade March or Patlabor. Full Metal Panic didn't make the cut since Lamda Drivers isn't realistic (too bad; I liked the show too).

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tak

It isn't. That is why I said, again ""Macross weapon systems in general aren't very flashy, with the sole exception to the Itano circus of course"

- Tak

You also said:

Originally Posted by Tak

Its not like you have systems that 'reflects' beams back to your opponents, you don't have light saber duels and of course, you don't see anything close to resembling the HI-MAT. IMO, the Itano Circus is slightly more realistic because well, thats what our MRLS systems do similarly in real life.

How is one more realistic than the other? If you have the technology to mount several canons on a single platform, what's so strange about having them all fire at the same time? That's all the "Rainbow Gun" you decry so much does. It's no worse than thinking "if you can mount a gazillion missiles on a single platform, why not have them all fire at once?" In fact, as I said in another thread, I think the missile tech of Macross is underutilized.

If you want to point fingers at the assorted shield technologies of Gundam, that's something else. (BTW, Macross also has shields. Just saying.) Or if you want to say that the lightsaber duels are ludicrous - well, sure. So is knife fighting giant space bugs, but let's grant that the *coughmultiplecough* circumstances in which it happened were exceptional.

As for an 'end all weapon system', the packs certainly are nothing compared to say, the Freedom's HI-MAT, capable of taking out xx Goufs in x minutes. Besides, nuclear weapons do exist in the Gundam universe.

- Tak

The Gouf thing has more to do with the Dragoons and general piloting and manoeuvrability than the ability to shoot half a dozen beams at a time. Certainly, Ozma and his Armored VF did more damage with one missile volley than Kira ever could with one rainbow. And let's not even mention Kanaria and her Koenig Monster, or Alto and his reaction missiles. Admittedly, Kira is less limited (not limited at all?) in how many times he can use his canons, whereas the others only have so many missiles.

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

Tak

Maybe the Macross series is down to earth when compared to modern existing technology. Still I think that some Gundam isn't all that far fetched. (Cyclops System, Hi-Mat, Genesis, Beam Guns). Then again I'm comparing Gundam to say Cybuster, Mazingar, Gao Gai Gar, Gigantic Formula, Yuusha Raideen, well you get the idea.

There is absolutely nothing down to earth about giant transforming robots who can not only fly, but climb out of an Earth-sized gravity well under their own power. Also, FTL travel. Micro and macronization.

[Wesley84]

Macross operates on a higher tech base than Seed or Destiny. You might even say it takes itself a bit more seriously than most Gundams, although that probably only applies to the original series, since Frontier is just as wanky and stupid about combat as the recent OO series.

[Sleepy100]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There is absolutely nothing down to earth about giant transforming robots who can not only fly, but climb out of an Earth-sized gravity well under their own power. Also, FTL travel. Micro and macronization.

I was talking about comparing Macross Zero to Cybuster, Mazingar, Yuusha Raideen and some of the older robot series(not counting Gundam). If you want truly unrealistic robots, try playing Super Robot Taisen; where you can have a robot running on a Black Hole Reactor (instead of nuclear) or firing super powerful arrows that turns into a flaming phoenix (Angelg) or firing a crystal arrow that split into seven pieces and then hits the target from seven different direction (SRW W).

[Ypocaramel]

On one hand Macross looks more down to earth before its weaponry and variable fighters looks more similar to their real world counterparts - machine guns and fighter jets. Their weapons are less exotic than Gundam weapons. However, by Macross Frontier Macross is far more advanced than any Gundam in space transportation, their fighters having enough thrust to leave Galia 4's gravity well, and they have faster than light travel and capital ships that can FTL to other solar systems.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

Maybe the Macross series is down to earth when compared to modern existing technology.

That was the point, actually, and the primary reason why Macross weapons tend to be more down to Earth.

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

P.S Put Tekkaman Blade on the list of far fetched mecha. However, if you wish to argue which mecha series is the most down to earth I would say Gunparade March or Patlabor. Full Metal Panic didn't make the cut since Lamda Drivers isn't realistic (too bad; I liked the show too).

Have you played the game Gunparade March, its much better than the series.

Originally Posted by Sleepy100;Anh_Minh

How is one more realistic than the other?

I never questioned realism, I mentioned flashy, which is an entirely different matter.

Originally Posted by Sleepy100;Anh_Minh

ertainly, Ozma and his Armored VF did more damage with one missile volley than Kira ever could with one rainbow.

I don't know about that, seeing how a full volley only managed to wound a Red Vajra, while a rainbow, assuming it being fired at one complete cycle, would be able to do a lot more damage as seen in SEED and Destiny.

Originally Posted by dahak

Your reading comprehension has failed again and your not comparing like with like.

And you also failed equally to not note that while I was comparing the two, my statement was regarding the length of their military careers, not which season they existed. Amuro had a longer one, as series involving him were many, and allowed him to pilot more machines. That itself is a fact. Hikaru existed in one era, Space War I, and later disappeared into lala land.

Sure, he piloted the Lightening, but I don't know if I should even count that, seeing how he never fought with it.

- Tak

[Sleepy100]

Tak

- Then what did you mean by "down to earth"?
- I heard of the game Gunparade March and seen the commercial for it, but I haven't played it. I only played the SRW series (I wish they didn't eliminate the double move for Tobia and Amuro. Oh well.)
- The beam weaponry for GS and GSD is far more powerful than in Macross F, I agree. However, compare the GSD battle scene to "Itano Circus", I would say "Itano Circus" is flashier. ("Itano Circus" isn't limited to just the missile barrage; it includes plane maneuvers that shouldn't be possible.)

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

Tak

- Then what did you mean by "down to earth"?

As you mentioned earlier, Macross weapons are more down to earth when "compared to modern existing technology". While my take is similar, I tend to think that Macross weapons get to the point without much gimmicks or other bs in between.

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

- The beam weaponry for GS and GSD is far more powerful than in Macross F, I agree. However, compare the GSD battle scene to "Itano Circus", I would say "Itano Circus" is flashier. ("Itano Circus" isn't limited to just the missile barrage; it includes plane maneuvers that shouldn't be possible.)

Well, I said this many times already, if you remember, I said this:

"Macross weapon systems in general aren't very flashy, with the sole exception to the Itano circus of course"

- Tak

[Sleepy100]

Tak

I could very well say the same thing for battle scene in GS and GSD as they aren't flashy. I guess what I really want is what your idea of flashy is. ( If you say Hi-Mat, Dragoon or Fin Funnels, no I don't think they are flashy. My idea of flashy is very colorful light show with no point other than it looks cool. IE: V Gundam and wings of light. Turn A and it's butterfly wings.)

[fluidin]

heh. Biological mechas anyone? EVA-01 ftw! I really liked EVAs more than any other mechas I've seen. (A.T. fields, the sleek, predatory design).

Kira fights pretty flashily. What's with the disabling enemies and sparing them? That beam spam thing (the one where the autobot on SF activates, locks onto multiple targets, and fires) is full of colours too.

Flashy includes Wings's wings (-.-), FMP's lamda drivers, and all the Super Robot stuff. Lol@ Ideon's black holes and G's SHINIIIIIIING FIIIIIIINGEEEERRR.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Sleepy100

I could very well say the same thing for battle scene in GS and GSD as they aren't flashy. I guess what I really want is what your idea of flashy is. ( If you say Hi-Mat, Dragoon or Fin Funnels, no I don't think they are flashy. My idea of flashy is very colorful light show with no point other than it looks cool. IE: V Gundam and wings of light. Turn A and it's butterfly wings.)

I think weapon systems on the FREEDOM and JUSTICE were very flashy devices, with lots of gimmicks too. Although the 'flashiest' Gundam attacks seem to come from G Gundam. Turn A started off pretty bland, until later in the show, when those butterflies started splashing all over my screen. Gundam 00 on the other hand, is just as flashy in many aspects.

Of course, those are my opinions and opinions only.

Originally Posted by fluidin

heh. Biological mechas anyone? EVA-01 ftw! I really liked EVAs more than any other mechas I've seen. (A.T. fields, the sleek, predatory design).

Ugh, I am probably one of the few people who does not like EVA at all. Watching the series was like watching a catalog of broken people, not my thing, really.

And I couldn't stand Shinji. That kid was... *mutter mutter*

Originally Posted by fluidin

Kira fights pretty flashily. What's with the disabling enemies and sparing them?

He made a policy in the middle of SEED not to kill anyone, except a selective few.

- Tak

[lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

Ugh, I am probably one of the few people who does not like EVA at all. Watching the series was like watching a catalog of broken people, not my thing, really.

And I couldn't stand Shinji. That kid was... *mutter mutter*

Hahaha...Ano himself was pretty messed up in the head so it's not surprising that he would project his "baggage" onto his characters.

You're right about Shinji though...there were times where I wished he just pulled a Columbine to save everyone from their own misery and then point the gun to himself.

--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by fluidin

heh. Biological mechas anyone? EVA-01 ftw! I really liked EVAs more than any other mechas I've seen. (A.T. fields, the sleek, predatory design).

Kira fights pretty flashily. What's with the disabling enemies and sparing them? That beam spam thing (the one where the autobot on SF activates, locks onto multiple targets, and fires) is full of colours too.

Flashy includes Wings's wings (-.-), FMP's lamda drivers, and all the Super Robot stuff. Lol@ Ideon's black holes and G's SHINIIIIIIING FIIIIIIINGEEEERRR.

Did somebody just say EVA? (Enemy VAlkyrie)

Spoiler for Feios:

[fluidin]

hehe. The story was really screwed. BUT! EVA design is epic win.

Shinji was emo before 'emo' became popular. The pioneer of all those kids cutting themselves today. Bow to the master Shinji, kiddos! I liked Asuka and Rei, though. Rei more, but still :X

About Kira, he was retarded, a wimpy crybaby, a naive kid :/ Lacus deserves much better. I really went 'wtf' when he came up with the 'I'm going to spare them' thing. Literally facepalmed. He was lucky he didn't have Char Aznable on his opposing side.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

Hahaha...Ano himself was pretty messed up in the head so it's not surprising that he would project his "baggage" onto his characters.

You're right about Shinji though...there were times where I wished he just pulled a Columbine to save everyone from their own misery and then point the gun to himself.

--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

Anno is a weird fuck. I remember reading an interview about Asuka's VA, Yūko Miyamura, who stated that in the scene where Asuka was in a coma and Shinji came to visit, she was asked by Anno to imagine a situation where she is sleep while a stranger masturbates on top of her. . . yeah. I don't have anything further to say about that.

Originally Posted by fluidin

He was lucky he didn't have Char Aznable on his opposing side.

I like Kira, he was a crybaby yes, but he evolved into a person with independence and determination.

As for Char Aznable, in a world where the skill of top SEED aces are able to slice beams and missiles in mid-air and perform other feats unseen in the UC timeline, the Red Comet would have been knee-deep in crap trying to survive the SEED universe as a pilot.

- Tak