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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass 2 - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10 6 25.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 6 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 29.17%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 16.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 4.17%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2014-11-21, 03:36   Link #21
SJCrew
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Quote:
If Sibyl was curious about Kamui, or had some kind of master plan, I would've given them the benefit of the doubt, but they just washed their hands of him and said take a gun and shoot him, which is what I've been saying all along.
Your assessment is way off. Remember that big incident where her friend was killed right in front of her that everyone knew about and prompted her to seek therapy? Sibyl is already aware that she could never do it. They were tempting her. If she was able to kill Kamui illegally while keeping her hue clear, they would have all of the evidence they need to conclude that Akane is criminally asymptomatic and thus deserving of joining their brain orgy. That is why they sent their watch dog and talent scout, Togane, to work as closely to her as possible: to see if her brain is worthy of joining Sibyl. Another point of interest is that even his influence doesn't raise her CC. Aren't you putting the pieces together?

The system doesn't care about Kamui. Period. They want Akane. I wouldn't even be surprised if they were secretly enabling Kamui at this point with the endgame in mind that Akane would stop him.

Also, something tells me that Grandma Tsunemori isn't who she appears to be. It's too uncanny that during the dialogue sequence in which the prof. reasons that organ transplants are being used to fool the system, we see a retirement home completely trashed, save for Akane's grandma. Or maybe the incident was another test to raise her CC...?
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Old 2014-11-21, 05:10   Link #22
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetsubo666 View Post
Or it's possible they are letting Kamui do as he pleases because they most likely find the whole case to be intriguing, do remember at any moment, Akane could spill the beans and tell society Sibyl's true identity, which could potentially ruin their entire system. However they told Akane their identity just simply because they find her fascinating/intriguing and believe her assistance can help them to evolve. The same could be said about Kamui's case.
Sibyl having a master plan and manipulating everybody is the only way to save this season. It's a definite possibility, but I'm doubting it for a few reasons:

- They want Akane to kill Kamui. They didn't specifically tell her to do the job, they said it would have been ok to let Togane shoot as well. Anybody is fine as long as they get rid of Kamui. I think they're very much afraid of him and what he can reveal about the plane crash (there's definitely going to be a major reveal about that). He represents a major threat and they want him gone ASAP.

- They recruited Togane presumably to get rid of Akane. She's a security risk since she knows their true identity, so they want her gone. The other interpretation being that that they want to test her to see if she's a good candidate to be added to Sibyl, but I don't subscribe to it yet.

- If they were playing Akane, I think there would have been a hint. Like Kasei cracking a smile after Akane left. Instead, she looked apathetic and perhaps even displeased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Another possibility is that Sibyl already knew/suspected that they were up against more than just one man here, and they want to catch the entire organization in one big push and not just Kamui alone. If Akane had captured/killed Kamui last episode, then that might ruin Sybil's chance to get Kamui's entire organization. If Kamui is dead, he can't be interrogated. But even interrogating him is no sure thing when it comes to capturing Kamui's full organization, as Kamui might simply refuse to talk.

So perhaps Sibyl is sort of enabling Kamui to make getaways, hoping that all of this chasing around might produce some new leads for Akane. Then it's hoped that these leads might help Akane dig deeper and get most/all of Kamui's full organization.
They don't want to capture Kamui, so that can't be it. They pretty much outright said they want him dead and encouraged Akane to do what is necessary. They wouldn't have said if they wanted him alive. Togane killing him last week would have been a perfectly good outcome. If they wanted to capture his entire organization, they would have told Akane to bring him in alive from the get go, no matter how unreasonable a request it might be.

Kamui's accomplices don't seem to matter anyway. They're just pawns.
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Old 2014-11-21, 06:17   Link #23
Five_Overs
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Originally Posted by Lenox View Post
Am I wrong in believing that the reason Kamui can't be judged by the dominators is because he is one of the children believed to have died in the plane crash. Basically the system can't identify him because he isn't in it or something along those lines. Also how is it that every episode Mika just manages to make me despise her even more, I mean take responsibility for your action don't blame others, is there seriously anyone who likes her?
The in-universe explanation for how Sibyl detects a human being is that every human/organism possesses a field which can be read through a cymatic scan and its value used to determine their crime coefficient. As long as you're a human, you can be detected by Sibyl.

The narrative have been hinting for a while now that Kamui simply has a body composition that is fundamentally different from a human such that the field isn't produced. That's my theory anyway.
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Old 2014-11-21, 07:51   Link #24
Boukenxha
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
But 'cleaning up as quickly and secretively as possible': that's what the Inspectors and Enforcers are for.

Also, they expected someone to shoot him when they found him. It's just that Akane was the one, and she refused to shoot because it doesn't match her sense of justice.

So, with reference to the above points alone, how has Sibyl acted any differently from how you are saying they should be acting?

Furthermore, I think that some viewers still haven't figured out what Sibyl wants out of this case: I believe that, above everything else, they want to get rid of Kamui once and for all. One of the scenes in episode 5 (09:21) suggests that they've been looking for him for quite some time... If they remove Shisui's dominator authority, how are they going to track someone who can't be tracked? Going by this episode, if they remove that authority, Kamui will just kill her, and they'll have to start from scratch again in terms of looking for him.
That scene! I remember commenting on it wondering if that would be Makishima speaking through Kasei, but another way it could work... could that person be someone responsible for the plane crash that is now one of Sibyl? The context of the dialogue would fit perfectly with the agenda behind Kamui targeting Sibyl and him recreating the avaters of the childrens like a stinging reminder to what happened. It's revenge!

That scene in ep 5 also ended with Kasei stating that this is all needed for their evolution and the screen zoomed onto Akane. That could mean Sibyl was already aware of Kamui's identity since ep 5, but preferred to keep their hands off the case to monitor Akane's psyche with the aim of congregating her into the system if she is asymptomatic. However back to ep 7 this week after the meeting with Akane, the expressionless look on Kasei's face I wonder... is Sibyl starting to worry that Kamui might be more trouble than he is worth?

Anyway, pretty excited about what the big secrets that doctor Masuzaki is going to spill out next week, this better be good haha. Gotta love how Saiga has taken a more prominent role in the force and all the intellectual stuff are being centralized through him.
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Old 2014-11-21, 08:25   Link #25
ththth13
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You forget that Sibyl is not supposed to be some overlord ruling the city. The system is supposed to make impartial judgements by scanning people, and the police (human beings) are supposed to choose action they will take.

It's not supposed to make it's own decisions.

If Sibyl starts shutting dominators down or enabling them to shoot people with the clear psychopass, it will reveal its true nature. Sybil will at least publically pretend that its still the faithful servant its supposed to be.
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Old 2014-11-21, 08:54   Link #26
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five_Overs View Post
The narrative have been hinting for a while now that Kamui simply has a body composition that is fundamentally different from a human such that the field isn't produced. That's my theory anyway.
I don't think that it's different from a human, but rather he's too many humans. That's what the organ transplanting is about, I believe. It's likely he has just as many organs from himself as he does any other individual person. At that point, the scanners don't know which is the real deal and just chalk everything up to a margin of error.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the various organs inside him were from each individual that he's created a holo of from the plane crash.
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Old 2014-11-21, 10:03   Link #27
Aniwatcher
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Speculation: I believe that Sybil has known about the conspiracy for some time, and had secretly tried to fight it. However Sybil could not win or is at a standstill with wack a mole conundrum. Therefore it devised that the only way to stamp out the opposition is to leave an opening and allow the conspirators to gather and come into the open where they can be crushed in one strike.

This might be completely off-base since I have no idea how the Togane Foundation or the plane crash factors into the equation.
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Old 2014-11-21, 11:20   Link #28
kakakka
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I don't get how Sibyl thinks. They say they can't disable Shisui's dominator (what about the others nobody is supposed to use?) because she still has a clear hue and doing so would be admitting the system is flawed, and yet they as good as authorized Akane to kill Kamui using a gun, which is an even worse admission that the system doesn't work. Which is it? You can't have both. Either they believe in their own system to an absurd extent, or they don't.
I actually found that scene entertaining. I rather thought it was Sybil taking a shot at Akane for not shooting Kamui. Just as she couldn't compromise her beliefs, they also couldn't with theirs.

(And really, as long as they haven't pushed these two characters to their limit, the story wouldn't progress much. These two will be stuck in this prolonged stalemate.)

I hope I am not opening something beaten to death (Just glimpsing the episodes now and then). One thing too on how they think. While there are some flaws (and admittedly they all fuck up everyone in the process) they don't target the heart of the problem; only some holes on Sybil's rating system, not the whole establishment as a whole. And now that the police (not familiar with the term) has narrowed some lead, this kinda lessen the threat that Sybil perceives on itself. So I get somewhat they are not threatened that much as to expend exceptions.

(EDIT: As for the series so far, the animation is not as good as the previous season. I felt they used a lot of shortcuts in animation and they feel unnatural(?). But then again, I find some scenes in S1 the same too. Well, hey they are willing to use blood, so I guess there's some trade-off).
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Old 2014-11-21, 12:43   Link #29
Kanon
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Can anybody tell us if Togane's file says anything interesting?



All I know is that his crime coefficient was 769 (holy shit!) when he was 10 years old. For comparison, the highest CC seen in S1 was Rikako's at 472, and she was a complete nutjob of a serial killer. Togane must be the king of psychopaths.

And apparently, he drove 5 inspectors to death in total.
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Old 2014-11-21, 13:32   Link #30
desrtsku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Manju Bun View Post
Is it bad that Im actually rooting for Togane to take her out
Of course, it's bad.
After he's done talking with her about how he used to like cooking and eating chicken before Sibyl's Hyper Oats Food Revolution, what's left of the poor thing would be at the very least marked as a permanent Lethal eliminator target by the system.
That's just horrible. Why would you want the birth of another dirty latent criminal in a society as organized and clean as Sibyl's? Are you an Anarchist?
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Old 2014-11-21, 14:32   Link #31
Five_Overs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I don't think that it's different from a human, but rather he's too many humans. That's what the organ transplanting is about, I believe. It's likely he has just as many organs from himself as he does any other individual person. At that point, the scanners don't know which is the real deal and just chalk everything up to a margin of error.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the various organs inside him were from each individual that he's created a holo of from the plane crash.
I guess that's one possibility. But instead of the scanner being confused, maybe it's just that the field produced by each of the organs from different people is arranged such that they cancel each other out, and thus cannot be detected. Maybe.

On the other hand, if it's as simple as transplanting organs, he could easily make his lackeys undetectable by cymatic scan as well, but he didn't. His operation after the plane crash involves some kind of drug patent. That might be the key to solving tthis mystery.


------------------------------------------------------

A lot of interesting theories on Sibyl's weird actions have been proposed. I wish we were given more clues to Sibyl's true intentions. The words by Kasei of interest as mentioned above.

So, I'm in charge of this case. But no matter how much you blame me, I can't take responsibility for it. After all, we can't change the past. Let's just make use of that which has been brought to life, in order that we may evolve. Besides, aren't you curious, as to how 'that' will affect her.

That which has been brought to life might be referring to Kamui, 'that' will affect her might be referring to Togane.
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Old 2014-11-21, 16:04   Link #32
kitten320
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Finally this season starts to look interesting. If they keep it up, I'll raise my mark for this season to 8.

And Mika really should have told someone instead of trying to play a hero that will obviously backfire.
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Old 2014-11-21, 17:00   Link #33
Anh_Minh
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Question: wasn't there a cyborg in S1, who was read just fine despite what I assume was a relative lack of organs?
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Old 2014-11-21, 17:19   Link #34
Five_Overs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Question: wasn't there a cyborg in S1, who was read just fine despite what I assume was a relative lack of organs?
You raise a good point. My reasoning is that a person's cymatic scan/field is dependent on the resultant combination of his/her various organs. By mixing several of your organs with the target person (other than the brain), you can possess a cymatic scan that's close to the person. Since cyborgs are only left with the brain, their cymatic scan is only dependent on that one organ.

That does raise another interesting question. How does Sibyl determine the threat level of a pure machine? I have no idea in that respect.
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Old 2014-11-21, 17:32   Link #35
R.LocK
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I sure feel bad when the only time I was emotionally involved was when I saw that Shimotsuki and researcher still warm each other in bed.
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Old 2014-11-21, 18:08   Link #36
desrtsku
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Togane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five_Overs View Post
You raise a good point. My reasoning is that a person's cymatic scan/field is dependent on the resultant combination of his/her various organs. By mixing several of your organs with the target person (other than the brain), you can possess a cymatic scan that's close to the person. Since cyborgs are only left with the brain, their cymatic scan is only dependent on that one organ.
Well, yeah. Wasn't the organ transplant trick mainly to help faking one's identity? Since adding organs supposedly adds new values.
But removing shouldn't be a problem as long as the brain is intact. After all, Sibyl System itself is a complex of hundred brains (as far as I know, it doesn't include kidneys and intestines).
Cyborg guy had nothing but his brain left so reading him should be a piece of cake for Sibyl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five_Overs View Post
That does raise another interesting question. How does Sibyl determine the threat level of a pure machine? I have no idea in that respect.
I've been asking myself this for a year, and I think it's just judging the threat level visually after the target is recognized as a machine.
Sibyl is brains, so they can think at least that much. And unlike with humans, it's much easier to tell how far gone a machine is.
A robot that harms humans is of no use to Sibyl, so it's disposable. They don't even need to put a number on the threat level : if it's trash, then it's trash, and all kinds of trash are the same since they have no value. You don't paralyze or cure trash, you destroy them, all of them (recycling is a different story).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
And Mika really should have told someone instead of trying to play a hero that will obviously backfire.
Shh, let the naive girl do naive things.
It's for consistency purpose, consistency purpose, not because we enjoy cute girls breaking. We need to know how exactly Togane proceeds when he transforms people into Lethal Eliminator targets. And he needs to succeed for the sake of consistency.

Jokes aside, I think it was already too late for her the instant she entered his room. Seeing Togane's room already did some sort of things to her mind and she's seriously starting to get obsessed with him.
Of course, her being in possession of confidential informations hidden by the higher ups means talking to Kasei isn't an option. Talking to Akane is also out of question since she can't stand her guts and it's getting worse with Togane's indirect influence on her.
She only has the other enforcers left, but her pride is in the way in there too (on top of being scared of Doc-kun), not to mention that most of them favour Akane. At the very least, she may try talking to Yayoi but she had no opportunity to be alone with her yet.
I actually hope nothing bad happens to her though.
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Old 2014-11-21, 20:47   Link #37
Roger Rambo
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Togane certainly is turning out to be a piece of work. I'm suspecting the only reason a guy like him is still alive is probably because of his family connections. Since a psycho-pass that high seems like normally it'd just get you turned to slush.


I'm also go and chime in on the possibility of Sybil pondering if Akane is asymptomatic. This has frankly been something I've been wondering since last season, and they keep going back to Akane's Psycho-pass...with Togane Stalker seeming particularly interested in it.

I don't think we'd get two seasons talking about this if it wasn't gonna lead to something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenox View Post
Am I wrong in believing that the reason Kamui can't be judged by the dominators is because he is one of the children believed to have died in the plane crash. Basically the system can't identify him because he isn't in it or something along those lines. Also how is it that every episode Mika just manages to make me despise her even more, I mean take responsibility for your action don't blame others, is there seriously anyone who likes her?
I'm not sure if it's something like that. One of the latent criminals we had last season was an illegal immigrant born outside Japan which Sybil should have had no profile on. Yet it was capable of reading his Psycho-Pass.

I think it's probably something more complicated than that.
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Old 2014-11-21, 21:28   Link #38
Sheba
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Hearing about Togane's precedents, I won't be surprised if he is some kind of troll who just want to see a fellow Inspector's psycho-pass getting clouded so he can shoot him/her.

As for Kamui and the organs, please no frankenstein thing a la "well he got transplanted organs of kids who died in the plane crash!".

Edit: Togane is a much more interesting character than Kamui imo.
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Old 2014-11-21, 21:36   Link #39
karice67
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Originally Posted by SJCrew View Post
Your assessment is way off. Remember that big incident where her friend was killed right in front of her that everyone knew about and prompted her to seek therapy? Sibyl is already aware that she could never do it. They were tempting her. If she was able to kill Kamui illegally while keeping her hue clear, they would have all of the evidence they need to conclude that Akane is criminally asymptomatic and thus deserving of joining their brain orgy. That is why they sent their watch dog and talent scout, Togane, to work as closely to her as possible: to see if her brain is worthy of joining Sibyl. Another point of interest is that even his influence doesn't raise her CC. Aren't you putting the pieces together?

The system doesn't care about Kamui. Period. They want Akane. I wouldn't even be surprised if they were secretly enabling Kamui at this point with the endgame in mind that Akane would stop him.
This is interesting, and sounds like a distinct possibility, if only because it seems to fit everything we've been shown:
  • Togane has the highest recorded CC in history, but he's still alive, and still used as an Enforcer.
  • Even though five of the Inspectors he's worked with have been eliminated because their CC's went over 300, Mika and Akane haven't been informed (Sibyl has kept this secret from them -- Sibyl telling Akane to keep an eye on Togane could be a red herring so that she doesn't connect them with him).

The other plausible alternative is that Togane really is cooperating with Kamui, which is what all the signs seem to be pointing towards...though I think it'd be more fascinating if the above explanation was the right one, since it tells us so much more about how Sibyl operates.
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Old 2014-11-22, 04:52   Link #40
Dengar
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To be fair, if any inspector knew about Togane's past, wouldn't their CC rise due to stress?
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