Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by The Small One

THAT definately wasn't a teleport. Revive just misses the 00, because it already moved away. Those particles are just floating around the suit.

They show the 00 forming itself from the arm to the body before being completed though, so that's definitely a strange phenomenon. Watch that scene again.

Spoiler for Screenshots of said scene in order:

Wrong! That's exactly a point, that argues for the teleportation, and not against it: Obviously a teleportation, in which the suit is desintegrated into it's molecules would need a serious amount of time, until it's rematerialized.
If it were just an afterimage, and the suit was just too fast for Revive to notice, Setsuna would have attacked again immediately. There is no need for him to wait until Revive braced himself. But the fact that it took quite an amount of time (several seconds) shows, that something happened, which was not under Setsuna's control, like a teleportation.

A teleport is supposed to make the mobile suit move faster though, not slower. That it wasn't instant means that it isn't something like particle reassembly or a teleport, since it took its time to reappear. Heck, at Trans-Am speed that distance could've been covered much faster. Setsuna himself may have been surprised, but his surprise doesn't really support the teleport, since he could've been surprise at whatever it is at this point. Also, you say Setsuna would've attacked immediately... so why didn't he do so the second time around? After the explosion of the GN Mega Launcher along with his GN Sword II he could've continued his attack, but instead he went around a distance behind the Gadessa and then attacked in much the same time as he did the first time, which shows that in this situation Setsuna really wasn't that fast an attacker in reflexes.

In any case, as with all things yet unexplained in 00, I think I'll end this argument right here and wait for official info regarding the phenomenon.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

They show the 00 forming itself from the arm to the body before being completed though, so that's definitely a strange phenomenon. Watch that scene again.

Spoiler for Screenshots of said scene in order:

A teleport is supposed to make the mobile suit move faster though, not slower. That it wasn't instant means that it isn't something like particle reassembly or a teleport, since it took its time to reappear. Heck, at Trans-Am speed that distance could've been covered much faster. Setsuna himself may have been surprised, but his surprise doesn't really support the teleport, since he could've been surprise at whatever it is at this point. Also, you say Setsuna would've attacked immediately... so why didn't he do so the second time around? After the explosion of the GN Mega Launcher along with his GN Sword II he could've continued his attack, but instead he went around a distance behind the Gadessa and then attacked in much the same time as he did the first time, which shows that in this situation Setsuna really wasn't that fast an attacker in reflexes.

In any case, as with all things yet unexplained in 00, I think I'll end this argument right here and wait for official info regarding the phenomenon.

explanation? sunrise still hasnt explained the GN drive. I doubt we'll get an explanation of how 00raiser in trans am enables psychic communication and allow particle reassembly (teleport essentially).

Honestly this particle reassembly stuff is making seed and destiny MORE realistic thatn 00 right now which is scary.

[RAVNEN]

Originally Posted by nutype

just finished the episode that has to be the most hax gundam Ive ever seen. Freedom has nothing on 00 raiser in trans am.

Uh,yeah,00 is a melee type while Freedom a beam spamming type,different they are. They both have one thing in common,both are the strongest MS in their show.

For a second I thought Patrick finally done something smart by using somekind of strategy.Then he got...
The strange phenomenon that 00 Raiser exhibit is quite interesting,maybe the 00 Raiser Trans-Am model kit have some info about this outrageous phenomena.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually, there is an official statement inside the episode itself! I watched again, and Ribbons calls the phenomenon "quantization" (量子化), about which wikipedia says it's basically "breaking an entirety into its parts". So it's basically a confirmation of the teleport theory.

yeah it's confirmed that it broke down into atoms but what isnt explained is what enables this disassembly and reassembly. Also is setsuna and saji disassembled and reassembled too?? how?

[Revolutionist]

This series is turning into BS. First 00 can get stabbed with a beam saber in the cockpit area and somehow rebuild itself or insta teleport out of that w/o taking any damage, and by the looks of the preview Ptolemy can somehow avoid a direct blast from Memento Mori....

[velocity7]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

While I think Setsuna isn't the best pilot around in Gundam 00 universe, I think the specific episode you're referring to doesn't prove Graham is better than Setsuna. I mean Setsuna with trans-am activated was overwhelming Graham, but then Gundam 00 started to whine and it went off line completely... if that wouldn't have happened Graham would be in the dead count characters by now.
In the final episode of S1 Setsuna performed very well against Graham as well, WITHOUT Trans-Am... too bad he just finished off Alvatore so Exia didn't have enough energy to repeat Trans-am not to mention Setsuna was really tired.

Actually, maybe I'm referring more to episode 6, where if Setsuna did not activate Trans-Am, he would most certainly have been killed by Graham.

In the final episode of S1, the reasons why Setsuna performed as well as he did despite being disadvantaged with a post-Trans-Am Exia include:

1. Graham's hacked-up Flag is not designed for GN drives
2. Post-Trans-Am Exia is only a little better than a GN Flag, especially an Exia that lacks all but one of its weapons

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

This series is turning into BS. First 00 can get stabbed with a beam saber in the cockpit area and somehow rebuild itself or insta teleport out of that w/o taking any damage, and by the looks of the preview Ptolemy can somehow avoid a direct blast from Memento Mori....

Why should it be BS? This new ability has just been presented so it NEEDED to be in a spectacular way, but it will be nerfed in the future or a uber powerful suit will come out to fill the gap: Mr Bushido's new suit is the first candidate.
If Gundam 00 is turning into crap then go watching Gundam SEED, it will be more logical for sure...

Originally Posted by velocity7

1. Graham's hacked-up Flag is not designed for GN drives
2. Post-Trans-Am Exia is only a little better than a GN Flag, especially an Exia that lacks all but one of its weapons

As you have techinical notions of GN Flag and Exia not known to the public what about sharing them?

[velocity7]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

As you have techinical notions of GN Flag and Exia not known to the public what about sharing them?

I don't have any technical notions you claim of, only probable guesses in regards to the condition of those two mobile suits. That said, do you have any?

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by velocity7

I don't have any technical notions you claim of, only probable guesses in regards to the condition of those two mobile suits. That said, do you have any?

Do I have any for what? I didn't say GN Flag had design issues with GN Drive or that non trans-am Exia was a little better than the GN Flag. You made these two statements so I asked you to show evidence for that, while you are asking me the evidence instead?!?

[Sander RX]

OMG!
Now I declare "underpowered" bitching over.Brace yourselves for "overpowered" bitching.

[Rubie]

I just hate Louise now. She comes with a fast conclusion that Saji has been working for CB for a long time, it's as if she doesn't trust the guy at all =S.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by nutype

Honestly this particle reassembly stuff is making seed and destiny MORE realistic thatn 00 right now which is scary.

I think any notion of 00 being particularly realistic in its physics was already on its way out the window when the GN Particle and GN Drive were first introduced (in fact, this is the first thing to note when comparing tech from 00 to other Gundams). Just that thay've portrayed said technology to within a realistic limit up until now.

But of course, the official material has been bracing us for the Twin Drive System's full potential having abilities that "break common sense" for a few months now, so in this case it's hardly something that suddenly came out of the blue. Time for the 00 Gundam to live up to the hype so to say, after 11 episodes of performing below expectations

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

Why should it be BS? This new ability has just been presented so it NEEDED to be in a spectacular way, but it will be nerfed in the future or a uber powerful suit will come out to fill the gap: Mr Bushido's new suit is the first candidate.
If Gundam 00 is turning into crap then go watching Gundam SEED, it will be more logical for sure...


As you have techinical notions of GN Flag and Exia not known to the public what about sharing them?

Let me rephrase that, 00 is turning into SEED/SDESTINY with all the hax and invincible protagonists. If I wanted to watch that crap again I'd go watch those shows, not 00. Up until now 00 had been pretty good, even Trans-am wasn't that big of an issue but now with invincible 00 and teleportation/molecular reconstruction/newtype space or whatever this crap is the show is taking a different track, headed for

Spoiler for 00:

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Let me rephrase that, 00 is turning into SEED/SDESTINY with all the hax and invincible protagonists. If I wanted to watch that crap again I'd go watch those shows, not 00. Up until now 00 had been pretty good, even Trans-am wasn't that big of an issue but now with invincible 00 and teleportation/molecular reconstruction/newtype space or whatever this crap is the show is taking a different track, headed for

Spoiler for 00:

Considering that so far Celestial Being has hardly been "hax and invincible" this season, giving the 00 Raiser it's one time to shine as a HAX machine isn't really that bad you know. Besides, the same things were said about Trans-Am way back in season 1, and yet they found ways to actually nerf Trans-Am. Only time will tell, but given their treatment of the Gundams so far I'm confident they'll find ways to give the 00 Raiser equal opposition in the future. Heck if you compare the season 1 Gundams to this season's Gundams, so far all of this season's machines have been underperforming compared to their predecessors that slaughtered hundreds of enemies at a time, certainly we can give them a break in giving us one brief shining moment of overpoweredness.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Let me rephrase that, 00 is turning into SEED/SDESTINY with all the hax and invincible protagonists. If I wanted to watch that crap again I'd go watch those shows, not 00. Up until now 00 had been pretty good, even Trans-am wasn't that big of an issue but now with invincible 00 and teleportation/molecular reconstruction/newtype space or whatever this crap is the show is taking a different track, headed for

Spoiler for 00:

Really? Just because 00's new ability the show is now a train wreck. People these days, either it is the best show ever made or it is crap. Man the expectation has gotten higher. 00's new ability will probably be explained and I am really amazed that people would think that one thing just outweighs the story, characters, and other elements that make 00 great.
Also what made GSD crap was not just hax ms and protagonist it was rushed story, overused battle scene, and horrible character development.

[Chase]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Let me rephrase that, 00 is turning into SEED/SDESTINY with all the hax and invincible protagonists. If I wanted to watch that crap again I'd go watch those shows, not 00. Up until now 00 had been pretty good, even Trans-am wasn't that big of an issue but now with invincible 00 and teleportation/molecular reconstruction/newtype space or whatever this crap is the show is taking a different track, headed for

Spoiler for 00:

Based off 2 recent episodes? Give it a little more time than that before you fly off the handle.

[Sander RX]

Turn A owned the world,literally.Yet no one calls that show a train-wreck.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Rubie

I just hate Louise now. She comes with a fast conclusion that Saji has been working for CB for a long time, it's as if she doesn't trust the guy at all =S.

Let's see, she knows Setsuna is a member of Celestial Being, and it was Saji who introduced him to her. Saji went to school to be an engineer and wtf is he doing piloting a Gundam? There's no way she can know or even guess the circumstances which put Saji in CB. As far as she knows Saji was supposed to be a space engineer. Oh wait, you want her to somehow know that Saji was arbitrarily thrown into prison by A-Laws who then tried to dispose of him along with the entire prison block? The only logical conclusion there is for her is that Saji was a member all along. Besides, her entire fucking family was blown up to pieces by a psycho piloting you guessed it a GUNDAM, which what do you know, was associated with CB. You want her to not want revenge and act "rational"?

I'm pretty sure given the info she has access to, and what she's been through you'd do the exact same thing.

[LightningZERO]

Yeap. And prepare for more bitching too when it turns out that somehow there's a fatal flaw for the teleportation too, or maybe when Bushido's new toy overwhelm 00 Raiser's ability

[LoweGear]

You can never please everybody as you learn. Just a couple of episodes ago there were complaints about how the Garazzo could possibly overwhelm the 00 when the 00 is supposed to be this HAX mecha and all. Seriously, no matter what happens there's bound to be someone who doesn't like it .