The Syria Crisis

[Botan_TM]

Personally I don't know for 100%, who used that chemical weapon, but currently Syria is a mess and everybody can have some of that. Also there is a interesting story from WWII Air raid on Bari, where chemical weapon was involved.
I'm aware this sounds a bit tin foiled, but for every side the best solution to solve this problem was to call Russia and company and inform them, where strike is going to happen. No risk of hitting Russians or something too important, and risk of further escalation is avoided.

The main problem is, even is Assad is removed, then masses of people from provinces supporting him will now migrate to other countries, and last thing Europe needs is another wave of refugees mixed with people from other countries trying to get in with them, so another trump card for Erdogan.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Confirming Assad's culpability for the gas attack is no justification for escalating into wholesale conflict. Were the American government concerned with the well-being of foreign citizens, they would cease their friendship with Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Qatar. We should also be intellectually honest enough to recognize the tragedy of the region, that if it takes someone like Saddam Hussein or Assad to suppress terrorist elements, then that may yet be the only placebo until the antidote of reform emerges from within

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by GDB

The biggest issue is that there's still questions about whether Assad was actually responsible or not. And rather than getting to the bottom of things, he just launched missiles.

Yeah. Good point. What if it wasn't Assad? What if it was terrorists anticipating an action like this from Trump?


Just one reason I was so against Trump becoming president. Our enemies are evil and cunning and can manipulate that man; no problem. They can play him like a fiddle and in turn, play the U.S. like one, too.

[Jaden]

He blasted the alphabet agencies for illegally spying on him, and propagating the Trump-Russia conspiracy theory. He blasts the media all the time for being liars. And now he gets shown some pictures of dead babies by them, and immediately reaches for the missile launch button even though it goes completely against his stated foreign policy.

It looks as if he has no control over his government, and is getting dragged along by a bunch of neo-cons who were supposed to be his enemies. Trump's core of supporters is pretty disillusioned with him right now, because this has made him look like a total sellout with no integrity.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

We should also be intellectually honest enough to recognize the tragedy of the region, that if it takes someone like Saddam Hussein or Assad to suppress terrorist elements, then that may yet be the only placebo until the antidote of reform emerges from within

Would I be intellectually dishonest if i disagreed with that assertion? Saddam Hussein suppressed Shi'ite and Kurdish groups during his rule and that's not where the terrorism was coming from during the Iraq War. The main terrorism was coming from the disenfranchised Sunni groups that developed from a heavy handed US military that was also turning a blind eye to a heavy handed Shi'ite Iraq government that was very sectarian.

And Assad? The Syrian Crisis is all his creation. He started this mess in the first place, and it was his depravity that made the opposition lose their humanity. I don't think he's proved himself adept at all in providing stability, but if we want someone like that to be the "placebo" then it's not just a matter of leaving them alone. It means we'll have to bloody our hands and be a party to his atrocities and help him all the way through. In this case, we can just let Russia do that but what about say...Yemen?

FYI, I have no idea what the right solution to this crisis is and whether Trumps attack was the right thing or not (irrespective of intentions) remains to be seen, but if it at the very least makes Assad think twice before using chemical attacks again, then I can't really see it as a bad thing.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Trump's core of supporters is pretty disillusioned with him right now, because this has made him look like a total sellout with no integrity.

What did Trump supporters think Trump looks like BEFORE the elections anyway? He is acting exactly the same now as he was before, nothing changed. If they are satisfied enough to vote for him based on his performance and history, they are getting more of the same now.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by GDB

The biggest issue is that there's still questions about whether Assad was actually responsible or not. And rather than getting to the bottom of things, he just launched missiles.

True enough, though at least there is one silver lining here even if this turns out be false and it's that this action is actually eroding support from his base. Trumpsters are getting woke they might be dragged into war again by another Republican President after he himself accused the opposition of planning to do just that. He can't just stop projecting can he?

[AnimeFan188]

Just in case you think Hillary would've done any differently, here's an article from April 6:

"In her first interview since her stunning presidential election defeat by Republican rival
Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton on Thursday called for the United States to bomb Syrian air
fields."

See:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pe...-idUSKBN179058

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

Just in case you think Hillary would've done any differently, here's an article from April 6:

"In her first interview since her stunning presidential election defeat by Republican rival
Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton on Thursday called for the United States to bomb Syrian air
fields."

See:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pe...-idUSKBN179058

But of course, since Republicans consider Clinton to be Satan, why the hell would they care what Clinton wants?
Is it even really an argument? "She would have done it too" doesn't change what Trump did. Clinton can demand WW3 and nuclear holocaust, but she is in no position to make any of it happen. Trump, however...

[Ithekro]

I am pretty sure the consensus was that both top choices were bad and that voting for someone other than them would have been the better option. Just not enough people feel that was viable, even if it was sensible given the two main dregs we were presented with in November.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am pretty sure the consensus was that both top choices were bad and that voting for someone other than them would have been the better option. Just not enough people feel that was viable, even if it was sensible given the two main dregs we were presented with in November.

We have people in this very thread who claimed that Trump was the anti-war candidate. I guess you can pretend they don't exist?

[solomon]

Whoever thought that we would NEVER have ANY intervention in foriegn affairs after Trump was elected is a DOPE. Sorry but one man does not outweigh the ENTIRE geopolitcal reality on the ground.

Anyways, everybody just simmer down and wait and see what happens.

There likely will be some new action but nothing on the level of what we did in 2003, the country frankly cannot afford it politically.

Have to say though, it is kinda sick how some of the anti war Trumpites are immediately dismissing ANY possibility of Assad using chemical weapons, let alone diminishing the tragedy so openly.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by solomon

There likely will be some new action but nothing on the level of what we did in 2003, the country frankly cannot afford it politically.

The GOP had never cared about paying the price for war. Have war first, pay the price later.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am pretty sure the consensus was that both top choices were bad and that voting for someone other than them would have been the better option. Just not enough people feel that was viable, even if it was sensible given the two main dregs we were presented with in November.

Wait are ypu kidding me? I don't know how anyone can say this after last 2-3 months of absurdities. Nevermind Hilary used to be Sec of State knew when to be diplomatic and when twist arms. She certainly would harmed the integrity of government. There are no two bad sides here, just one you may not agree on everything about and a narcissistic buffoon.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Wait are ypu kidding me? I don't know how anyone can say this after last 2-3 months of absurdities.

Eh. Whatever people thought of him before, good or bad, he hasn't really given them reasons to change their mind. Some have, sure, but I'd say they conned themselves more than he conned them.

[AnimeFan188]

F-15E Shot Down "Predator-Sized" Drone That
Attacked Coalition Forces In Syria:

"For the first time in more than four decades, American forces have come under aerial
attack after a drone released an unspecified weapon near U.S. special operators and their
Syrian partners at a garrison in the town of At Tanf. The strike has huge implications for
the conflict in the country, as well as the future of warfare as a whole.

U.S. Army Colonel Ryan Dillon, the spokesman for Combined Joint Task Force-Operation
Inherent Resolve (CJTF-OIR), the top American task force leading the fight against ISIS in
Iraq and Syria, announced the incident in talking to the press on June 8, 2017. The
apparent attack had occurred earlier the same day and U.S. F-15E Strike Eagle fighters
had responded by shooting down the pilotless plane."

See:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...orces-in-syria

[monir]

And the first Syrian jet was shot down by a US Navy fighter jet.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/u-shoots-d...opstories.html

Looking forward to how Asad and Putin will react.

[AnimeFan188]

The Iranians have launched ballistic missiles into Syria to avenge the recent terrorist
attack in Iran:


Iran Launched An Unprecedented Ballistic Missile Attack On Syrian City:

"Iran has waded into the Syrian conflict in an entirely new and very concerning
matter—by launching a ballistic missile bombardment on the long-contested city of Deir
Ez-Zor in eastern Syria. The missiles were said to have been a retaliatory measure in
response to an affiliate of the Islamic State's attack on Iran's parliament eleven days
ago.

The missiles, which are said to be about four in number, were fired by Iran's
Revolutionary Guards Corps from western Iran. They supposedly struck extremist
bases in and around the embattled city. Over the last couple of years, Deir Ez-Zor has
been heavily bombarded by US and pro-Assad forces, including high altitude
bombardment by Russian bombers—some of which flew from an airfield in western Iran
for a period of time. It has also been the scene of highly controversial incidents where
bombs landed on the wrong forces."

See:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...on-syrian-city

[AnimeFan188]

Originally Posted by monir

And the first Syrian jet was shot down by a US Navy fighter jet.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/u-shoots-d...opstories.html

Looking forward to how Asad and Putin will react.

I wonder if the Su-22 was posing a threat to the HIMARS rocket system that the U.S.
has set up in Syria?

"The US military has moved its High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) from Jordan
into southern Syria for the first time, positioning it near the US-Coalition training base at At
Tanf, three US defense officials confirmed to CNN Tuesday."

See:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/13/politi...ria/index.html

====================

Interestingly, this engagement comes after Syrian fighters shot down a Jordanian Selex
ES Falco UAV:

https://southfront.org/syrian-air-fo...le-over-daraa/

====================

Note that the Israelis have also been getting involved in this mess:

"Israel has reportedly been discreetly supporting Syrian rebel groups for years in order to
protect its northern border from the war raging in Syria."

See:

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Rep...-rebels-497239

====================

What a cluster%@*$.

[AnimeFan188]

Lebanese TV: Israel used Jericho missiles in Syria,
one was downed by Russians:

"A Lebanese news network affiliated with the Hezbollah terror group claimed Israel
fired Jericho 1 surface-to-surface missiles to strike a military target in Syria on Friday
night, and that one of the missiles was downed by Russian air defense systems.

Al-Mayadeen television, citing unnamed Russian sources, said Israel launched two
missiles in the attack. One was reportedly downed by a Russian Pantsir-S1, which had
been deployed to neutralize any possible threats to Russian forces operating
throughout Syria.

Israel has not commented on the alleged strike in Syria, which multiple Arab media
outlets have claimed targeted an Iranian military base near the Syrian city of ​​al-
Qiswa, southwest of Damascus.

Some media outlets affiliated with the Assad regime and Hezbollah initially reported
that Israeli warplanes targeted an ammunition bunker belonging to the Syrian army.
But other media outlets, widely quoted in Hebrew media on Saturday evening,
reported that the target was a military base that Iran is building in the area, about 50
kilometers (31 miles) from the Israeli border, and that loud explosions were heard
after the attack."

See:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/lebane...d-by-russians/