Bakemonogatari - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Why don't they ever date first to test the water?

Then again, anime makes it seem like all of high school relationships end in 100% success anyway, so...

This goes to show that you haven't read a lot of shoujo titles. 8 times out of 10, they get together during the story, and then the real drama kicks in.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Then again, anime makes it seem like all of high school relationships end in 100% success anyway, so...

Ever since they got together, I have not been able to shake the feeling about Koyomi and Senjougahara breaking up at one point in the future (even if it's only for a while).

In a way, I am still surprised they ended up together so quickly. >_<

[Triple_R]

One thing that I like about this anime is that you're kind of getting the best of both worlds.

You get a much more realistic and sensible than usual (for anime) romance in the Hitagi/Araragi pairing, but due to various circumstances, you're still getting some good harem comedy moments. In fact, because Hitagi/Araragi is already set up, you see some real author creativity in finding ways to keep the harem comedy moments coming (such as Hitagi sticking Kanbaru with Araragi to... test his loyalty? she wants her boyfriend to get along with an old friend of hers? Something else?).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Ever since they got together, I have not been able to shake the feeling about Koyomi and Senjougahara breaking up at one point in the future (even if it's only for a while).

In a way, I am still surprised they ended up together so quickly. >_<

The only problem with that, is that Hitagi already made it clear she would break up with Araragi over his dead body.

And Hitagi is someone who keeps her promises.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The only problem with that, is that Hitagi already made it clear she would break up with Araragi over his dead body.

And Hitagi is someone who keeps her promises.

I actually took that line as more of an expression that anything else; Figure of speech an all that.

Besides, when you truly love someone, you must always be ready to make a sacrifice or two for them. Letting them go (knowing they are no longer happy with you) is just one of them.

Of course I am just speculating here. Not really bothered with seeing them together.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The only problem with that, is that Hitagi already made it clear she would break up with Araragi over his dead body.

And Hitagi is someone who keeps her promises.

Yep I loved it when she said that. Now thats a woman who is committed to her man granted its possible that you might end up dead before you get free of her. But its rare to find a woman who is that dedicated. I like Hitagi finds her own way to express her feelings for Araragi sometimes it comes out well violent but we all know she means well..

[Zetsubo]

I think I can see why so many of you guys get off on Hitagi's character portrayal.

It seems to me NisiOisiN knew what he was doing when he crafted Hitagi's character.

The hints that Kanbaru mentioned really let me sit down and think about some of the formulas that drive Otaku/Anime culture

[monir]

There is no question Senjougahara is very serious about Araragi. However, I'm not yet sold on the fact the feeling is quite mutual yet with Araragi. What we know about him thus far that he is very very kind. He will probably feed Shinobu his blood for the rest of his natural life. Meaning, he will do whatever is needed to be done for the sake of someone else. One of the underlying meaning Hanekawa tried to express in episode 8 was just that. She emphasized the fact that he was going out with Senjougahara.

Yeah, many little things about Senjougahara, the kind of attention she gives to him makes Araragi happy. That said, however, I don't think he is fully committed to the role of her lover as of yet. That might change in the future, but I believe that isn't the case in the present.

Fortunately, Senjougahara is just as unique. Senjougahara's persistence will pay off considering she is willing to go out with him, knowing very well he will put their interest/happiness aside if there is someone who he can help. Any other normal woman won't put up with that. Lucky for Araragi, she won't give up on him because she accepted him for the very reason that defines him. What she will continue to do is to wait for Araragi to come into full realization of what her confession to him means. When she is suffering she will keep it to herself because she wanted him to put it into words and he did so in episode 5. We will know he is serious about her when he says his line after pointing his hand toward Senjougahara's direction. Until then....

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by monir

There is no question Senjougahara is very serious about Araragi. However, I'm not yet sold on the fact the feeling is quite mutual yet with Araragi. What we know about him thus far that he is very very kind. He will probably feed Shinobu his blood for the rest of his natural life. Meaning, he will do whatever is needed to be done for the sake of someone else. One of the underlying meaning Hanekawa tried to express in episode 8 was just that. She emphasized the fact that he was going out with Senjougahara.

Yeah, many little things about Senjougahara, the kind of attention she gives to him makes Araragi happy. That said, however, I don't think he is fully committed to the role of her lover as of yet. That might change in the future, but I believe that isn't the case in the present.

Fortunately, Senjougahara is just as unique. Senjougahara's persistence will pay off considering she is willing to go out with him, knowing very well he will put their interest/happiness aside if there is someone who he can help. Any other normal woman won't put up with that. Lucky for Araragi, she won't give up on him because she accepted him for the very reason that defines him. What she will continue to do is to wait for Araragi to come into full realization of what her confession to him means. When she is suffering she will keep it to herself because she wanted him to put it into words and he did so in episode 5. We will know he is serious about her when he says his line after pointing his hand toward Senjougahara's direction. Until then....

Unlike Tsubasa, Hitagi has no fetters that prevent her from properly pushing Koyomi's buttons.

She is greedy. She sees what she wants and is going to take it.

Women like Hitagi reach far in real life.

Kanbaru also figured Koyomi out. Which brings to mind an idea to me.

I bet if Hitagi did not start dating Koymi first, Suruga would have scopped him up.

That is also one of Hitagi's reasons for making Suruga hang out with Koymi.

Aa Hanekawa said "She [Hitagi] wants to know that Koymi would pick her out of the two [Suruga & Hitagi] in a room"

I am convinced that Koyomi does care the most (loves) Hitagi for the simple reason that he asks Hanekawa for advice on how to progress with her.

He is taking steps to meet her on an "even" footing... so much so he is now aiming for the same University that she will go to.

No other female character can get Koyomi to study... but Hitagi did... what power is that ?

[velderia]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Spoiler for OHHHH MYYYYY:

Where'd you get THAT from?

I find it funny how these debates over character speculations and relationships turn into something oh-so-serious. Maybe I'm too easygoing and oblivious.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by velderia

Where'd you get THAT from?

I find it funny how these debates over character speculations and relationships turn into something oh-so-serious. Maybe I'm too easygoing and oblivious.

Good authors efficiently use real life elements to create their stories.

When done well, not only does the story entertain, it reminds you of those real life elements and it makes you ponder on them a bit.

[Azuma Denton]

Speaking of Hanekawa, I think the only one Senjougahara considers as rival of love is Hanekawa.

Senjougahara knows that Kanbaru is not interested in Araragi as a man. That's why she let Kanbaru stay with Araragi. N Senjougahara knows that having Kanbaru with Araragi will help Araragi. Araragi definitely not an athletic person, and Kanbaru having those athletic ability can help Araragi helping people.

[guanin]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Unlike Tsubasa, Hitagi has no fetters that prevent her from properly pushing Koyomi's buttons.

She is greedy. She sees what she wants and is going to take it.

Women like Hitagi reach far in real life.

Kanbaru also figured Koyomi out. Which brings to mind an idea to me.

I bet if Hitagi did not start dating Koymi first, Suruga would have scopped him up.

That is also one of Hitagi's reasons for making Suruga hang out with Koymi.

Aa Hanekawa said "She [Hitagi] wants to know that Koymi would pick her out of the two [Suruga & Hitagi] in a room"

I am convinced that Koyomi does care the most (loves) Hitagi for the simple reason that he asks Hanekawa for advice on how to progress with her.

He is taking steps to meet her on an "even" footing... so much so he is now aiming for the same University that she will go to.

No other female character can get Koyomi to study... but Hitagi did... what power is that ?

I guess the answer to that is pretty simple. 愛の力. The Power of Love. Lol.

I also believe that Araragi is attracted to Tsundere-chan, although not as strong as Senjougahara's affinity towards Araragi. But hey, he was the first to sport Senjougahara-tore!

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

Speaking of Hanekawa, I think the only one Senjougahara considers as rival of love is Hanekawa.

Senjougahara knows that Kanbaru is not interested in Araragi as a man. That's why she let Kanbaru stay with Araragi. N Senjougahara knows that having Kanbaru with Araragi will help Araragi. Araragi definitely not an athletic person, and Kanbaru having those athletic ability can help Araragi helping people.

Koyomi still has his 1/10 vampire athletic abilties, which surpass normal humans. Based on how the author constructed the story, Kanbaru isn't needed to physcially help Koyomi. She is there for more developmental and emotional support in a give and take 20/20 situation. Kanbaru gets help and friendship from Koyomi and vice versa.

Remember that Senjougahara wants to share whats precious to her, that includes her "dear kouhai" and other things.

As for Hanekawa, from Episode 2, Hitagi made sure to probe Koyomi about the state of the relationship between himself and Tsubasa.

Hitagi stopped short of asking him if he was shagging Hanekawa (remember the first virgin issue).

However based on Koyomi's response, "Why Hanekawa ?", I suspect Hitagi is comfortable knowing that his interest in Hanekawa is quite platonic despite spending a whole lot of time in with her.

Based on Koymis personality, Hanekawa is no threat to Hitagi.

Remember also that Hitagi came out of the shower (episode 2) naked in full view of Araragi even before she found out that he was not dating Hanekawa.

She obviously didn't care if he was dating her ?

What she was doing was leveling up in dangerous female ways using her sexuality to test the character of the man and get the answers she wants out of him. She wanted him from then on.

Kanbaru is more of a threat.... than you realise.

[monir]

Originally Posted by velderia

Where'd you get THAT from?

I find it funny how these...................... Maybe I'm too easygoing and oblivious.

May be you are, but there is nothing wrong with that... just as there is nothing wrong with those oh-so-serious discussion fans indulge in. It's all matter of point of views. Even the most oblivious ones will feel the need for indulging self in one of those oh-so-serious discussion if a subject catches his/her fancy. Yeap, you aren't immune to it either. You will find your subject too!

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

Speaking of Hanekawa, I think the only one Senjougahara considers as rival of love is Hanekawa....

I too think as such. It was in episode 5 Senjougahara was sniffing the air and recognized Hanekawa's scent. The got-to-watch-out-for look was given immediately after.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by monir

I too think as such. It was in episode 5 Senjougahara was sniffing the air and recognized Hanekawa's scent. The got-to-watch-out-for look was given immediately after.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's brought up again in the last arc, and plays quite a part in the story. I mean it could be another piece of development the two need as a couple to grow stronger together.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Kanbaru also figured Koyomi out. Which brings to mind an idea to me.

I bet if Hitagi did not start dating Koymi first, Suruga would have scopped him up.

I think the LN has an actual conversation between Araragi and Kanbaru regarding the matter.

Originally Posted by monir

There is no question Senjougahara is very serious about Araragi. However, I'm not yet sold on the fact the feeling is quite mutual yet with Araragi. What we know about him thus far that he is very very kind. He will probably feed Shinobu his blood for the rest of his natural life. Meaning, he will do whatever is needed to be done for the sake of someone else. One of the underlying meaning Hanekawa tried to express in episode 8 was just that. She emphasized the fact that he was going out with Senjougahara.

Yeah, many little things about Senjougahara, the kind of attention she gives to him makes Araragi happy. That said, however, I don't think he is fully committed to the role of her lover as of yet. That might change in the future, but I believe that isn't the case in the present.

Fortunately, Senjougahara is just as unique. Senjougahara's persistence will pay off considering she is willing to go out with him, knowing very well he will put their interest/happiness aside if there is someone who he can help. Any other normal woman won't put up with that. Lucky for Araragi, she won't give up on him because she accepted him for the very reason that defines him. What she will continue to do is to wait for Araragi to come into full realization of what her confession to him means. When she is suffering she will keep it to herself because she wanted him to put it into words and he did so in episode 5. We will know he is serious about her when he says his line after pointing his hand toward Senjougahara's direction. Until then....

You have to keep Senjougahara's past in mind as well. The incident with the cult member to be specific. I wouldn't doubt that she has some issues with the physical side of a romantic relationship and doesn't really mind that Araragi isn't that aggressive... or maybe that's part of the reason why Araragi is holding back.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

I wouldn't be surprised if it's brought up again in the last arc, and plays quite a part in the story. I mean it could be another piece of development the two need as a couple to grow stronger together.

I'm also leaning toward that conclusion. It also explains the diminishing role for Senjougahara in the last few episodes. The series started, after all, with Hanekawa's pantsu to the utter delight of Araragi. Now the true question that I need to ask myself, if I should wait for the DVD to come out, or take my chance as these episodes air on TV/net. Almost felt like crying in episode 10. Yeah... I probably won't be able to wait for the DVD version.

[hei]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Remember also that Hitagi came out of the shower (episode 2) naked in full view of Araragi even before she found out that he was not dating Hanekawa.

She obviously didn't care if he was dating her ?

What she was doing was leveling up in dangerous female ways using her sexuality to test the character of the man and get the answers she wants out of him. She wanted him from then on.

Yes, Senjogahara knows how to deal with a pervy like Araragi! She saw through Araragi's perviness and took full advantage of it. In addition to the shower scene of episode 2, there are another examples in episode 3 such as talking about "without wearing panties in the classroom" and "wearing nothing but aprons". As we know, those words were part of her tactics to make Araragi confess.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

No other female character can get Koyomi to study... but Hitagi did... what power is that ?

I think the answer to this question is also related to another example of how Senjogahara handles Araragi. There is a study scene in episode 6. After Senjogahara asked Araragi's future plan, she suddenly brought up an issue of living together after graduation, which made Araragi fall to joy. By the way, there are a few lines were omitted in the anime which happened just before Senjogahara suggested living together. I post them to make things clearer.

Spoiler:

Araragi: Even if we choose different options after graduation, it does not necessarily mean that we will be separated, does it?
Senjogahara: No, it does not. But, well, being a university student and enjoying lots of gokuns, I might be changed.
Araragi: You are already full of that thought!

On the one hand she made him envy, on the other hand she suggested a carrot! (Probably Araragi will perceive living together as an equivalent of shagging all the time ) So after this talk, Araragi started to think about his future seriously, because he realized that his future plan is closely related to a possibility of living together with Senjogahara. Then, we know what his final choice is. It's not just the university entrance exam, but the same university as Senjogahara!

In this sense, Senjogahara is a really scary woman, not only because of her staplers.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Kanbaru is more of a threat.... than you realise.

If it's a real life, I think Hanekawa is a bit boring and Senjogahara is too manupulative while Kanbaru would be a fun.

[qwertyman]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

This goes to show that you haven't read a lot of shoujo titles. 8 times out of 10, they get together during the story, and then the real drama kicks in.

That may be true, since I obviously don't know myself, but more than 8 out of 10 times in a non-Shoujo romance, it'll revolve around either the boy or girl love interests debating on whether or not they can muster the strength to confess.

Just because it happens one way in Shoujo doesn't explain why it always happens the other way in non-Shoujos.