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Decagon · 2010-08-16, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Yeah, I just realized that too. I'll go back and (try to) change it.

Normally TL notes give me hives, but in a case like this, maybe it would be better to stick a note in the bio and then refer to Leon as "he" by default?

If it doesn't get too irritating on the editors, you can use Leon/Lion's name to replace instances of "he" or "she" as a gender-neutral alternative.

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

I can't imagine Kyrie actually thinking that way about Ange.

Remember what Dlanor said about pieces?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Did they think Kinzo was gonna have the place guarded?

They wouldn't put it past him.

Renall · 2010-08-16, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Remember what Dlanor said about pieces?

Which parts of this episode, if any, were the board?

Helmet-kun · 2010-08-16, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decagon

If it doesn't get too irritating on the editors, you can use Leon/Lion's name to replace instances of "he" or "she" as a gender-neutral alternative.

I don't mean to offend, but sticking Leon's name to replace pronouns will probably cause some giggles/irritation. Why not use 'it' instead?

Alternatively, take a vote. If the majority thinks of Leon as male, use he, and if they think Leon's a she, switch to Lion/Lyon and use she. It's an episode that revolves around fan theories, anyway, so why not?

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Which parts of this episode, if any, were the board?

All of it? I'd think that any story containing human and fantasy characters that is set up by witches would be considered a gameboard.

Dlanor's point was that pieces/characters will never act in ways which they couldn't. So yes, I do think that Ange's mother hates her. I don't, however, buy that she killed everyone.

Renall · 2010-08-16, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

All of it? I'd think that any story containing human and fantasy characters that is set up by witches would be considered a gameboard.

Dlanor's point was that pieces/characters will never act in ways which they couldn't. So yes, I do think that Ange's mother hates her. I don't, however, buy that she killed everyone.

Depending on your definition of "couldn't," there are barely any restrictions on a piece's actions. If you're allowed to separate context and motive from action, it's functionally the same for all but the strictest moral compasses.

If you can take "Kyrie might, under some incredibly specific circumstances, go all Reservoir Dogs on everybody" and spin that into "I can have Kyrie bust a cap in everybody for any reason I want," then I don't see how you couldn't do the same for nearly everyone present.

Helmet-kun · 2010-08-16, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Dlanor's point was that pieces/characters will never act in ways which they couldn't. So yes, I do think that Ange's mother hates her.

Just because they could doesn't mean they would. I don't see why Kyrie would hate Ange, which is why I don't buy it, but that doesn't stop the possibility.

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

If you can take "Kyrie might, under some incredibly specific circumstances, go all Reservoir Dogs on everybody" and spin that into "I can have Kyrie bust a cap in everybody for any reason I want," then I don't see how you couldn't do the same for nearly everyone present.

Isn't this exactly what makes them such a terrible family, though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet-kun

I don't see why Kyrie would hate Ange, which is why I don't buy it, but that doesn't stop the possibility.

Because she only cares about Rudolf. Ange is just a way of keeping Rudolf close to her. She explains this to Eva, actually.

Marion · 2010-08-16, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

All of it? I'd think that any story containing human and fantasy characters that is set up by witches would be considered a gameboard.

Dlanor's point was that pieces/characters will never act in ways which they couldn't. So yes, I do think that Ange's mother hates her. I don't, however, buy that she killed everyone.

But that's the problem - the tea party showing has no fantasy elements. The only thing fantasy about is Beatrice showing up, but she ends up being a dead shell by the time the guns start firing off. Bern even takes Lion into the parlor at one point and tries to get Kyrie to shoot him. So really, it's less of a board and more of a clusterfuck display to mock Ange who is present in the tea party but not anytime else.

Sorry but there is nothing foreshadowing Kyrie's hatred of her own daughter in any games up to this point. Battler is understandable, but never did Kyrie say anything about hating Ange. If anything she thinks Ange is a blessing because she was able to marry Rudolf and have a child after giving a stillbirth.

Decagon · 2010-08-16, 00:56

Considering the role that children played in who Rudolph married first, I don't think it would be too farfetched that Kyrie might think of Ange as a tool to anchor Rudolph to her on some level regardless if she loves her or not.

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

But that's the problem - the tea party showing has no fantasy elements.

...Not really my point at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

Sorry but there is nothing foreshadowing Kyrie's hatred of her own daughter in any games up to this point.

Please stop using Knox 8 as a method to deny things you don't like.

Not every single story element has to have foreshadowing, only things important to the mystery.

Either way, I'm aware that the entire Tea Party is just Bern fucking with Ange again, but I do think there may be a lot of truth to it, as well. It just fits too well with Eva's behaviour in The Witches' Tanabata.

Marion · 2010-08-16, 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Please stop using Knox 8 as a method to deny things you don't like.

Not every single story element has to have foreshadowing, only things important to the mystery.

Either way, I'm aware that the entire Tea Party is just Bern fucking with Ange again, but I do think there may be a lot of truth to it, as well. It just fits too well with Eva's behaviour in The Witches' Tanabata.

It's not about Knox 8th. You're taking Kyrie's behavior in a game without love for face value. This is Bern we're talking about - someone who has absolutely no love for the gameboard and looks at everyone as pieces for her amusement. Call me bias if you want, but I just can't see Kyrie turning around and saying she hates Ange after we were told how she planned gifts in advanced for her daughter's birthday and even took her to the amusement park with Battler. She didn't have to do all those things.

And do you think Rudolf really takes pleasure in killing people as well. After everything that happened with Battler I can't imagine him going on a killing spree with Kyrie.

Helmet-kun · 2010-08-16, 01:27

...Perhaps that, knowing that she was going to die, Kyrie just made shit up about her hating Ange so that Eva would take pity on her and take care of her.

This coming from a perspective 'with love'.

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helmet-kun

This coming from a perspective 'with love'.

This comes back to Maria's 'magic' being just her way of coping with her mother being a horrible abusive bitch, though.

Seeing the world through a perspective of 'love' sounds an awful lot like running away from unpleasant truths to me.

MeoTwister5 · 2010-08-16, 01:44

Okay I'll probably begin later today, but for reference's sake, here's the original form of Van Din's 20 Rules of Writing Detective Fiction:

Spoiler for The 20 Rules of Detective Fiction (Spoilers?):

Marion · 2010-08-16, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

This comes back to Maria's 'magic' being just her way of coping with her mother being a horrible abusive bitch, though.

Seeing the world through a perspective of 'love' sounds an awful lot like running away from unpleasant truths to me.

Well there are different types of love. Ange had no love for Eva and rejected her aunt, who was just as miserable as she was if not more so. So would Ange having love for Eva mean she was running from an unpleasant truth?

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

Well there are different types of love. Ange had no love for Eva and rejected her aunt, who was just as miserable as she was if not more so. So would Ange having love for Eva mean she was running from an unpleasant truth?

Hmm, you're right. More like the opposite, as Ange hating her aunt allows her to pretend that her parents aren't murderers lets her blame a specific person for the events of October 1986 rather than just the vague and imperceptible existence of "The Golden Witch Beatrice".

Guess 'love' and 'magic' aren't quite the same thing. They're related, but...

Justice Knight · 2010-08-16, 02:01

is this the last part of the game where all answer will be revealed??

Tyabann · 2010-08-16, 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justice Knight

is this the last part of the game where all answer will be revealed??

Ahaaahahahahahaha.

Oh man that made my day. Thanks, dude.

MeoTwister5 · 2010-08-16, 02:23

Okay time for me to begin.

Requiem of the Golden Witch

This section goes from the start of the game to the intro video.

Spoiler for Summaries:

Spoiler for RED TEXT:

2010-08-16, 01:27	Link #73
Helmet-kun Local Crackpot Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Somewhere?	...Perhaps that, knowing that she was going to die, Kyrie just made shit up about her hating Ange so that Eva would take pity on her and take care of her. This coming from a perspective 'with love'. __________________

2010-08-16, 01:44	Link #75
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Okay I'll probably begin later today, but for reference's sake, here's the original form of Van Din's 20 Rules of Writing Detective Fiction: Spoiler for The 20 Rules of Detective Fiction (Spoilers?): 1. The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described. 2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself. 3. There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar. 4. The detective himself, or one of the official investigators, should never turn out to be the culprit. This is bald trickery, on a par with offering some one a bright penny for a five-dollar gold piece. It's false pretenses. 5. The culprit must be determined by logical deductions — not by accident or coincidence or unmotivated confession. To solve a criminal problem in this latter fashion is like sending the reader on a deliberate wild-goose chase, and then telling him, after he has failed, that you had the object of his search up your sleeve all the time. Such an author is no better than a practical joker. 6. The detective novel must have a detective in it; and a detective is not a detective unless he detects. His function is to gather clues that will eventually lead to the person who did the dirty work in the first chapter; and if the detective does not reach his conclusions through an analysis of those clues, he has no more solved his problem than the schoolboy who gets his answer out of the back of the arithmetic. 7. There simply must be a corpse in a detective novel, and the deader the corpse the better. No lesser crime than murder will suffice. Three hundred pages is far too much pother for a crime other than murder. After all, the reader's trouble and expenditure of energy must be rewarded. 8. The problem of the crime must he solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic se'ances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio. 9. There must be but one detective — that is, but one protagonist of deduction — one deus ex machina. To bring the minds of three or four, or sometimes a gang of detectives to bear on a problem, is not only to disperse the interest and break the direct thread of logic, but to take an unfair advantage of the reader. If there is more than one detective the reader doesn't know who his codeductor is. It's like making the reader run a race with a relay team. 10. The culprit must turn out to be a person who has played a more or less prominent part in the story — that is, a person with whom the reader is familiar and in whom he takes an interest. 11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person — one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion. 12. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature. 13. Secret societies, camorras, mafias, et al., have no place in a detective story. A fascinating and truly beautiful murder is irremediably spoiled by any such wholesale culpability. To be sure, the murderer in a detective novel should be given a sporting chance; but it is going too far to grant him a secret society to fall back on. No high-class, self-respecting murderer would want such odds. 14. The method of murder, and the means of detecting it, must be be rational and scientific. That is to say, pseudo-science and purely imaginative and speculative devices are not to be tolerated in the roman policier. Once an author soars into the realm of fantasy, in the Jules Verne manner, he is outside the bounds of detective fiction, cavorting in the uncharted reaches of adventure. 15. The truth of the problem must at all times be apparent — provided the reader is shrewd enough to see it. By this I mean that if the reader, after learning the explanation for the crime, should reread the book, he would see that the solution had, in a sense, been staring him in the face-that all the clues really pointed to the culprit — and that, if he had been as clever as the detective, he could have solved the mystery himself without going on to the final chapter. That the clever reader does often thus solve the problem goes without saying. 16. A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. To be sure, there must be a sufficient descriptiveness and character delineation to give the novel verisimilitude. 17. A professional criminal must never be shouldered with the guilt of a crime in a detective story. Crimes by housebreakers and bandits are the province of the police departments — not of authors and brilliant amateur detectives. A really fascinating crime is one committed by a pillar of a church, or a spinster noted for her charities. 18. A crime in a detective story must never turn out to be an accident or a suicide. To end an odyssey of sleuthing with such an anti-climax is to hoodwink the trusting and kind-hearted reader. 19. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal. International plottings and war politics belong in a different category of fiction — in secret-service tales, for instance. But a murder story must be kept gemütlich, so to speak. It must reflect the reader's everyday experiences, and give him a certain outlet for his own repressed desires and emotions. 20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (b) The bogus spiritualistic se'ance to frighten the culprit into giving himself away. (c) Forged fingerprints. (d) The dummy-figure alibi. (e) The dog that does not bark and thereby reveals the fact that the intruder is familiar. (f)The final pinning of the crime on a twin, or a relative who looks exactly like the suspected, but innocent, person. (g) The hypodermic syringe and the knockout drops. (h) The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (i) The word association test for guilt. (j) The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unraveled by the sleuth. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2010-08-16, 02:01	Link #78
Justice Knight Haro Pwned U!!!! Join Date: Dec 2005	is this the last part of the game where all answer will be revealed?? __________________

2010-08-16, 02:23	Link #80
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Okay time for me to begin. Requiem of the Golden Witch This section goes from the start of the game to the intro video. Spoiler for Summaries: Episode 7 - Begins with a poem of sorts written by Virgilia, about a dream. Inquisition - Some suspects are assembled in a room handled by officers similar to the Jungfrau (Dlanor's squad) but with different uniforms and badges. They are interrogating what are apparently servants. Names aren't mentioned. - One servant is in fear and the narrator says this person apparently has the ability to freely enter and leave the victim's secret room. - This servant (all of them?) is being accused of murder, but the servant pleads innocent. The officers say they have proof, and that the fact that they are tremblings adds to their guilt. - The servant pleads that they wouldn't kill their master whom they respect. Officers say that a motive is unnecessary. Cathedral? - Virgilia movs back after praying from an altar decorated with roses. - There is a coffin there and Battler looks at it. He holds with him a book containing the game records of the kakeras. After a while he places it on the coffin. - Inside the coffin is a young girl and he offers the record to her. He closes the lid. - He says now that the record is with her, no one can dirty it. The truthh will be with her. - (Identity of the person in the coffin is not revealed). Babel (A town somewhere I think) - A man is down down a street. The town is described to be beautiful in the day and in the early evening. He's apparently after some sort of criminal and mumbles that motive is uneccesary to the act of the criminal etc. He's in a rush. Cathedral - Virgilia says no one will be able to disturb her dreams and sleep now. She says they should leave now. - The girl in the coffin is likened to a sleeping child. Battler and Virgilia leave quietly. He pays his last respects before he goes. - The cathedral/temple is closed behind them. Inquisition - The inquisition do not believe the pleas of innocence by the servant who insists of not having a motive. - They continue to press the question of how the servant committed the crime. Again stating the law and having a warrant, a motive is unecessary to the investigation. They call themselves the SSVD and this is their right to get justice, even if they have to squeeze it out of the suspects. - A guy kicks in the door and confronts the investigation. He questions the methods of the investigators stating they are blatantly ignoring aspects of the case just to get a confession. The investigators invoke the rules of law. - He insists that they must consider a suspect's alibis and check all of them for the weakest ones. He again insists for them to always check for the motive. He says this is all bordering on perjury if honesty is lost. - The group says the truth must be discovered, something about red truth confirmation. The man says the heart of the mystery is lost when the methods are questionable. - He says that this type of shoddy reasoning, by skipping elements, make the mystery and the discovery weak. The group again insists that the red truth must be squeezed out of the suspects until the truth is found. - He decides to play and invokes in red that it is forbidden for an employee to be the criminal. This is the 11th rule of Van Dine's 20 rules of the detective story. - The SSVD are aghast at his usage of red. He says that they must take into consideration the servants alibis. - He says that as per warrant of arrest he will take responsibility to take care of the servant suspect. - The group demands proof that this servant is the criminal. The servant says she was away from the place in the kitchen, but the group demands proof nonetheless. They will get in one way or another. - He does not tolerate any use of coercion or torture. The group says they are empowered to use whatever means as an inquisition to apprehend witches. - He says that this "rule" applies only to real witches, and that they must not catch innocent citizens in the crossfire. It is their responsibility to practice their job ethically. They must look for the truth properly with correct reasoning. - The servant is amazed at his words and ask for his name while thanking him. He comments about half-hearted reasoning being unforgivable. He says that the servant's boyfriend is also working to free her. She should find happiness with her boyfriend. - He says that this type of coercive methods to force a confession is itself unforgivable and itself almost criminal. The inquisitors cannot answer. - This man's name is revealed as Will Light/Wright, academy member of the SSVD and Chief of the 8th District, Wright/Light the Witch Hunter. - He tells them not to forget who is is. Ep7 Introduction Video Spoiler for RED TEXT: - Will: It is forbidden for an employee to be the criminal. This is the 11th rule of Van Dine's 20 rules of the detective story. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing - Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2010-08-16 at 02:34. Reason: Damn typos.

2010-08-16, 00:56	Link #70
Decagon This was meaningless Scanlator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Not on this site no more. Age: 36	Considering the role that children played in who Rudolph married first, I don't think it would be too farfetched that Kyrie might think of Ange as a tool to anchor Rudolph to her on some level regardless if she loves her or not.