AnimeSuki Forums

MeoTwister5 · 2011-03-01, 07:15

.... And then I forgot (again!) that the " ' " of the katakana changes the consonant.

**Solace** · 2011-03-01, 07:29

It's close, but it seems a bit of a stretch. Wouldn't be surprised though.

BaKaBaKaOtaKu · 2011-03-01, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Spoiler:

Hilarity ensues.

o_O whatta-! this might be a very vague hint that madoka is homura..O_o

@TRiple_R
man, i love you theory..XD it's interesting..thanks for sharing.XD

Mentar · 2011-03-01, 08:18

It's a funny find, that's for sure

Still, I really don't think that Homura is Madoka in any other form. The most important reasons why:

1) Homura shows a fierce devotion and strong affection to Madoka. It would be really really weird for especially humble Madoka to develop such a massive form or narcissism.

2) In the ED, Homura longs to be reunited with Madoka, and she always addresses her with "you".

3) In ep1, when Madoka tells Sayaka and Hitomi that she dreamed of Homura before she met her, Sayaka laughed at her and said "What's that, you're friends reunited over space and time?" - well, the way Urobuchi's brain operates, that's exactly what it's going to be.

panzerfan · 2011-03-01, 09:28

Well, speculative cracks aside, I think the many share the same sentiment as I in that it is the Homura-Madoka interaction that is at the heart of this whole mess. I came to that conclusion from a different angle to that of Mentar (since I stick my head in Goethe) but nevertheless it's compatible to the modus operendi of Urobuchi either way.

Triple_R did raise a crucial point about Urobuchi, in that Urobuchi Gen is quite efficient and does not leave visual cue unused. The black cat in stark contrast to that of the white, ethereal Incubator would be something that must be accounted for somehow. Keep in mind that a black cat is considered a symbol of ill omen and that it is a familiar to a witch by folklore, being able to transform to a human and so forth.

@MeoTwister5: I don't know if such would be bitter or sweet..

MeoTwister5 · 2011-03-01, 09:29

If Homura turns out to be a witch of some sorts, I'll rip out my nasal hairs and build an Urobuchi Gen shrine.

Kaijo · 2011-03-01, 11:15

Animals can show a love to their master. My own cat can be rather affectionate toward me. If Homura is the cat, it could explain her devotion, while at the same time not be romantic love.

Another thought that may or may fit in: black cats are traditionally the familiars of witches (your standard broomstick flying ones).

And I'm more likely to think that the cat existed in the original timeline, or in the real world.

Doddler · 2011-03-01, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sageblink

Spoiler for 2ch spoiler:

It's possible that QB cannot decline a wish made of him, it would seem like he follows some set of rules. Can the devil decline a wish if you offer him your soul? It's never been made entirely clear about this fact, but if it's true, it's could be reasonable that Kyubey could grant the wish of time travel even if it was a bad decision for him.

Mentar · 2011-03-01, 12:11

It feels weird for me. To begin with, if only one MG remains, she already _is_ a MG. Why should she be able to contract with QB _again_ for a wish? And if Madoka-Witch wiped out all the others, why would she feel this strong love and affection towards her? Shouldn't she rather resent Madoka, if anything?

I feel tempted to call BS.

Triple_R · 2011-03-01, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

It feels weird for me. To begin with, if only one MG remains, she already _is_ a MG. Why should she be able to contract with QB _again_ for a wish? And if Madoka-Witch wiped out all the others, why would she feel this strong love and affection towards her? Shouldn't she rather resent Madoka, if anything?

I feel tempted to call BS.

That's why I made the additions to it that I did. The 2Chan "spoilers" (which may just be speculation) just don't work on their own. They just don't account for everything that we already know, like you point out.

Even if they're right, they're far from the whole story, imo.

They either are BS, or Gen is intentionally leaking part of the big reveal, but not all of it, to further fuel fan speculation and interest.

In dealing with the revelation of such half-truths, Gen would ironically be acting like Kyubey.

Riga92 · 2011-03-01, 12:39

So I was browsing the Puella Magi wiki, and I found this very interesting speculation regarding Homura, Madoka, the cat, and Kyubey...take a look.

Spoiler for speculation:

What do you guys think? I think the idea that Kyubey is a familiar created by Madoka, and that Homura was a cat that was given powers by Madoka quite interesting.

Triple_R · 2011-03-01, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riga92

So I was browsing the Puella Magi wiki, and I found this very interesting speculation regarding Homura, Madoka, the cat, and Kyubey...take a look.

Spoiler for speculation:

What do you guys think? I think the idea that Kyubey is a familiar created by Madoka, and that Homura was a cat that was given powers by Madoka quite interesting.

That speculation is awesome simply for its comedy value.

Kyubey as the ultimate critic of slice of life anime. That's great, lol.

Anyway, I'd love for this to be true. I can just imagine the jokes anime bloggers would make about this.

Kaijo · 2011-03-01, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riga92

So I was browsing the Puella Magi wiki, and I found this very interesting speculation regarding Homura, Madoka, the cat, and Kyubey...take a look.

Spoiler for speculation:

What do you guys think? I think the idea that Kyubey is a familiar created by Madoka, and that Homura was a cat that was given powers by Madoka quite interesting.

I like this, but I envision it slightly differently... imagine, if you will, the future...

Kyube: "Booooring. Damn I miss the old days of loot and pillage."
Homura: "What's so bad about it? Madoka and I are in gentle yuri love, as soon as she realizes her feelings..."
Kyube: "bet you she doesn't
Homura: "Bet you she does!"
Kyube: "Hmmm... a little wager? I'll send you back in time. You have to convince Madoka to lead a normal life and not become an MG. But you have to be cold to her; you can't attempt to seduce her! If she decides against a contract by a certain holiday, say... (looks at calander and randomly points) "Walpurgis night."
Homura: "Why that one?"
Kyube: (shrugs) "Why not?"
Homura: "Fine. What else?"
Kyube: "Well, if she doesn't become an MG because of your devotion to the cause, then I admit defeat. If, however, she becomes an MG to deal with the crisis, then I win, and we go back to looting and pillaging monsters!"
Homura: "If I win, then no more of your butting in just when she plans to confess to me or kiss me or something, dammit!"
Kyube: (visibly shudders) "Eww, disgusting lesbo stuff. But alright, it's a deal!"

Riga92 · 2011-03-01, 13:14

Hell, if he is indeed the ultimate critic of slice of life anime, even more reason for me to hate him

Doddler · 2011-03-01, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

It feels weird for me. To begin with, if only one MG remains, she already _is_ a MG. Why should she be able to contract with QB _again_ for a wish? And if Madoka-Witch wiped out all the others, why would she feel this strong love and affection towards her? Shouldn't she rather resent Madoka, if anything?

I feel tempted to call BS.

Well clearly for that to work she would have to not have been a magic girl at the time, because her wish would have had to be to go back. It doesn't specifically says she was a magic girl though, she could have seen the whole thing from the perspective of one who didn't make the contract, in the same way madoka is keeping up with things now.

The way I read it, madoka's unwillingness to hurt or fight ultimately is what lead to disaster. In fact, it may go the other way, she could possibly even save the witches by taking their grief. That would after all be the only way she could save Sayaka at this point. That wouldn't really work out too well for anyone though...

erneiz_hyde · 2011-03-01, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

If Homura turns out to be a witch of some sorts, I'll rip out my nasal hairs and build an Urobuchi Gen shrine.

Then perhaps you should start building the shrine now lol. I forgot the source, but I remember that some 2ch spec thread was saying that Homura contracted with QB straight to become a Witch, not MG.

Mentar · 2011-03-01, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Then perhaps you should start building the shrine now lol. I forgot the source, but I remember that some 2ch spec thread was saying that Homura contracted with QB straight to become a Witch, not MG.

And the point of doing that would be... (?)

2ch is this wonderful place which got us the death clock and whatnot. I feel very reluctant to take ANYTHING from there as gospel.

BaKaBaKaOtaKu · 2011-03-01, 19:39

what if homura invented her own time machine? LOL

Decagon · 2011-03-01, 19:48

If Homura is related to Madoka in the sense that some form of Madoka may have had a hand in her creation, that might go a bit to answering that name theory. Maybe Homura in her current form was a familiar that came from a witch-Madoka, embodying her regrets and the grief she caused loved ones. If the assessment of her power is spot on and not sweet talking, maybe Homura and Homura's powers/mission are something Madoka willed into existence.

Or it could be, y'know, a sign of obsession from a stalker.

panzerfan · 2011-03-01, 20:29

While in discussion with SpaceBrotha and Jimmy_C, we all started to wonder regarding the issue of whether if the act of taking a human life really does blacken the soul gem, as well as the level of impact this darkening of soul gem has on the personality. We know at this moment that the usage of magic and the feeling of despair both darken the soul gem.

There are two ways to analyze this issue, one being that the act itself does blacken the soul gem, whereas the other being that one would only darken the soulgem if an act would cause despair to one's own heart. Given that the Incubator is an unique exception, there is no direct example for one to speak with certainty about what had transpired with Sayaka, for both approaches would be compatible with Sayaka's fall.

The thought that struck me is that hope, the counterbalance to despair, does not work in itself to remove magical girls of their tarnish, and they must redeem this darkness via depositing that grief into a grief seed. This seems to a case where one builds happiness upon the despair of others. What is clear however, is that the blackening of the soul gem seems to impact the individual's psyche... or rather, if we can say that since the soulgem is a physical manifestation of the soul, and as such, the essence of the being, the blackening of the soul gem is also the depression of one's psyche.

A further extension of this line of thought would suggest that magic itself takes an emotional toil on the user.

As it is clear to human being that it is possible for individuals to elevate themselves from grief or to do so with the help of others, can one go on and hypothesize that:
Magical girls are incapable of elevating oneself from despair individually or through assistance of others, so that their only avenue is to deposit their grief onto grief seeds?

Can it also be said that:
To gain a miracle implies that one's soul can no longer be elevated from despair without depositing that despair upon a grief seed?

2011-03-01, 07:15	Link #861
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	.... And then I forgot (again!) that the " ' " of the katakana changes the consonant. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2011-03-01, 07:29	Link #862
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	It's close, but it seems a bit of a stretch. Wouldn't be surprised though. __________________

2011-03-01, 09:28	Link #865
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	Well, speculative cracks aside, I think the many share the same sentiment as I in that it is the Homura-Madoka interaction that is at the heart of this whole mess. I came to that conclusion from a different angle to that of Mentar (since I stick my head in Goethe) but nevertheless it's compatible to the modus operendi of Urobuchi either way. Triple_R did raise a crucial point about Urobuchi, in that Urobuchi Gen is quite efficient and does not leave visual cue unused. The black cat in stark contrast to that of the white, ethereal Incubator would be something that must be accounted for somehow. Keep in mind that a black cat is considered a symbol of ill omen and that it is a familiar to a witch by folklore, being able to transform to a human and so forth. @MeoTwister5: I don't know if such would be bitter or sweet.. __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori

2011-03-01, 09:29	Link #866
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	If Homura turns out to be a witch of some sorts, I'll rip out my nasal hairs and build an Urobuchi Gen shrine. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2011-03-01, 19:39	Link #878
BaKaBaKaOtaKu Stupidity is Bliss. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: In Hancock's Heart	what if homura invented her own time machine? LOL __________________ Faberry Quinn and Rachel

2011-03-01, 08:18	Link #864
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	It's a funny find, that's for sure Still, I really don't think that Homura is Madoka in any other form. The most important reasons why: 1) Homura shows a fierce devotion and strong affection to Madoka. It would be really really weird for especially humble Madoka to develop such a massive form or narcissism. 2) In the ED, Homura longs to be reunited with Madoka, and she always addresses her with "you". 3) In ep1, when Madoka tells Sayaka and Hitomi that she dreamed of Homura before she met her, Sayaka laughed at her and said "What's that, you're friends reunited over space and time?" - well, the way Urobuchi's brain operates, that's exactly what it's going to be.

2011-03-01, 11:15	Link #867
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Animals can show a love to their master. My own cat can be rather affectionate toward me. If Homura is the cat, it could explain her devotion, while at the same time not be romantic love. Another thought that may or may fit in: black cats are traditionally the familiars of witches (your standard broomstick flying ones). And I'm more likely to think that the cat existed in the original timeline, or in the real world.

2011-03-01, 12:11	Link #869
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	It feels weird for me. To begin with, if only one MG remains, she already _is_ a MG. Why should she be able to contract with QB _again_ for a wish? And if Madoka-Witch wiped out all the others, why would she feel this strong love and affection towards her? Shouldn't she rather resent Madoka, if anything? I feel tempted to call BS.

2011-03-01, 12:39	Link #871
Riga92 The Spear of Destiny Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: A place where the stars cross. Age: 31	So I was browsing the Puella Magi wiki, and I found this very interesting speculation regarding Homura, Madoka, the cat, and Kyubey...take a look. Spoiler for speculation: What do you guys think? I think the idea that Kyubey is a familiar created by Madoka, and that Homura was a cat that was given powers by Madoka quite interesting.

2011-03-01, 13:14	Link #874
Riga92 The Spear of Destiny Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: A place where the stars cross. Age: 31	Hell, if he is indeed the ultimate critic of slice of life anime, even more reason for me to hate him

2011-03-01, 19:48	Link #879
Decagon This was meaningless Scanlator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Not on this site no more. Age: 36	If Homura is related to Madoka in the sense that some form of Madoka may have had a hand in her creation, that might go a bit to answering that name theory. Maybe Homura in her current form was a familiar that came from a witch-Madoka, embodying her regrets and the grief she caused loved ones. If the assessment of her power is spot on and not sweet talking, maybe Homura and Homura's powers/mission are something Madoka willed into existence. Or it could be, y'know, a sign of obsession from a stalker.

2011-03-01, 20:29	Link #880
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	While in discussion with SpaceBrotha and Jimmy_C, we all started to wonder regarding the issue of whether if the act of taking a human life really does blacken the soul gem, as well as the level of impact this darkening of soul gem has on the personality. We know at this moment that the usage of magic and the feeling of despair both darken the soul gem. There are two ways to analyze this issue, one being that the act itself does blacken the soul gem, whereas the other being that one would only darken the soulgem if an act would cause despair to one's own heart. Given that the Incubator is an unique exception, there is no direct example for one to speak with certainty about what had transpired with Sayaka, for both approaches would be compatible with Sayaka's fall. The thought that struck me is that hope, the counterbalance to despair, does not work in itself to remove magical girls of their tarnish, and they must redeem this darkness via depositing that grief into a grief seed. This seems to a case where one builds happiness upon the despair of others. What is clear however, is that the blackening of the soul gem seems to impact the individual's psyche... or rather, if we can say that since the soulgem is a physical manifestation of the soul, and as such, the essence of the being, the blackening of the soul gem is also the depression of one's psyche. A further extension of this line of thought would suggest that magic itself takes an emotional toil on the user. As it is clear to human being that it is possible for individuals to elevate themselves from grief or to do so with the help of others, can one go on and hypothesize that: Magical girls are incapable of elevating oneself from despair individually or through assistance of others, so that their only avenue is to deposit their grief onto grief seeds? Can it also be said that: To gain a miracle implies that one's soul can no longer be elevated from despair without depositing that despair upon a grief seed? __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-03-02 at 08:21.