[Manga] Chapter 499 Discussion

[ragnos007]

here is more spoiler

Spoiler for 499:

Naruto 499 Confirmed Spoiler
Credit: Ohana, 2ch

kushina tell the story of her chakras
uzumaki clan derives of senju distant relative
special family know for strong spirit strong chakras
however it is not kekkei genkai
kyuubi knows this chakras as the brightest light chakras
ying/yang
kushina tells there is special ‘resonance’ of kyuubi and uzumaki chakras, creating the stronger chakras.
therefore uzumaki controls any bijuu chakras
uzumaki father was friend of shodai hokage
teaches bijuu controls to shodai, uzumaki father can also hokage?
uzumaki clan killed by unknown man in mask
kushina survives to move into konoha
also the konoha attacked by masked man
minato and kushina protect the konoha
endure future to naruto
minato appear to naruto
both kushina and minato love naruto
naruto must not “overheat” or kyuubi becomes loose
goodbye
naruto feels stronger chakras then ever
kyuubi is angry yet control by narutos chakras

Kushina was the former kyuubi jinchuuriki.
Naruto successfully captures the kyuubi in sennin mode.
Kushina has not disappeared yet
Just before the kyuubi is sealed
“Sage of the 6 paths’…!?” kyuubi disappears
Kushina – after this I can see Minato… now, I will tell you the truth about my being the former kyuubi jinchuuriki
Next week is a break

It also seems that Kushina helps naruto in his fight after they finish talking.

[bombyethan1000]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

here is more spoiler

Spoiler for 499:

Naruto 499 Confirmed Spoiler
Credit: Ohana, 2ch

kushina tell the story of her chakras
uzumaki clan derives of senju distant relative
special family know for strong spirit strong chakras
however it is not kekkei genkai
kyuubi knows this chakras as the brightest light chakras
ying/yang
kushina tells there is special ‘resonance’ of kyuubi and uzumaki chakras, creating the stronger chakras.
therefore uzumaki controls any bijuu chakras
uzumaki father was friend of shodai hokage
teaches bijuu controls to shodai, uzumaki father can also hokage?
uzumaki clan killed by unknown man in mask
kushina survives to move into konoha
also the konoha attacked by masked man
minato and kushina protect the konoha
endure future to naruto
minato appear to naruto
both kushina and minato love naruto
naruto must not “overheat” or kyuubi becomes loose
goodbye
naruto feels stronger chakras then ever
kyuubi is angry yet control by narutos chakras

Kushina was the former kyuubi jinchuuriki.
Naruto successfully captures the kyuubi in sennin mode.
Kushina has not disappeared yet
Just before the kyuubi is sealed
“Sage of the 6 paths’…!?” kyuubi disappears
Kushina – after this I can see Minato… now, I will tell you the truth about my being the former kyuubi jinchuuriki
Next week is a break

It also seems that Kushina helps naruto in his fight after they finish talking.

Who is ohana?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by ragnos007

Dont forget that Minato said that Madara was behind the attack by saying it was the akatsuki member with the mask

I pointed in that same post that Mdara could still be responsable for Kyubi been released from Kushina.

If Madara is responsible for the Kyubi attack, he is also responible for Kushinas dead. unless of course Kishimoto is goin to pull out a plot to cover up his mess.

[Ero-Senn1n]

So it seems that the story is logical: Konoha had it's own demon too, because as it was stated each village had to have it's own demons to create a power balance between villages. And it seems Konoha didn't give away the kyuubi, since it's the strongest demon it's logical to keep it. It makes sense that Konoha had the Kyuubi because Hashirama did defeat Madara, and that implies that he took control of the Kyuubi in that fight, and after the fight he sealed the kyuubi either in himself or a chosen host. It also makes sense that the villagers hated the Kyuubi's host if they had the same problems with it as Kumo village had with the 8-tails. Otherwise it would not make sense that Konoha's ninjas hated/feared Naruto.

What we don't know is how did Madara steal the kyuubi from Konoha. I assume he did something similar to what he did take control of the mizukage. In the end the mizukage died and the demon went free, so it might be that Madara's plan was to take control of the kyuubi host or make so that the kyuubi's host loses control of the demon and the demon takes over and at that point Madara took control of the kyuubi and attacked the village with it. But Madara was in the shadows, the village did think that it was the ususal failure of controlling the demon (just like described by KillerBee, when kumo lost many ninjas).

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

So it seems that the story is logical: Konoha had it's own demon too, because as it was stated each village had to have it's own demons to create a power balance between villages. And it seems Konoha didn't give away the kyuubi, since it's the strongest demon it's logical to keep it. It makes sense that Konoha had the Kyuubi because Hashirama did defeat Madara, and that implies that he took control of the Kyuubi in that fight, and after the fight he sealed the kyuubi either in himself or a chosen host. .

Well not really. Kushina came to Konoha from another village that no longer exists. I guess we can assume they were the keepers of the Kyuubi until Konoha took in Kushina.

Of course, now knowing that Kushina was the former Kyuubi jinchuuriki I think we may have a pretty good idea what happened to that village and why Kushina apparently the only survivor

[Harumi-chan]

Oh damn...I was not expecting this at all, this is an interesting twist.

[Nintendo]

im surprised she lived to tell the tale. i mean it almost seems like every time a tailed beast escapes its host the host dies.

but what a good chapter. it shows off how much power the 9 tails has and also gave that very badass looking shadow in his body.

[Kanon]

The chapter is out. Naruto going "rikudou sennin mode" was pretty weird. Not quite sure what to make of that yet.

The fight with Kyuubi was very disappointing overall. He never even had the chance to fight back.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well not really. Kushina came to Konoha from another village that no longer exists. I guess we can assume they were the keepers of the Kyuubi until Konoha took in Kushina.

Of course, now knowing that Kushina was the former Kyuubi jinchuuriki I think we may have a pretty good idea what happened to that village and why Kushina apparently the only survivor

She said that she was kidnapped because of her special chakra, but if she already had the 9-tails she would be kidnapped because of the 9-tails. It would not make sense to tell about some less important bloodline but not even mention that the 9-tailed demon is being stoled by another village. Stealing the strongest demon leads to war, but Konoha ninja's didn't even care enough to search for Kushina harder. So we can safely assume that at the time of kidnapping the 9-tails was not sealed in Kushina. We also know that she had special chakra that is good for taming the demon, which means that big villages who had demon were competing to make Kushina join them, either in a peaceful way as Konoha did or by force as Kumo wanted to do. Kumo did know about Kushina's special chakra, so that means both Konoha and Kumo had trouble sealing their demon in a safe way and if possible using it in a war. That means that Konoha had a demon, most likely the kyuubi, at the time when Kushina joined Konoha. We know from KillerBee's story that a demon can be sealed in a human whenever they decide to seal it, the major villages know the secret jutsus of sealing. Maybe it is good to seal the demon while the host is young, probably because a young ninja can adapt to the demon's presence more easily. Also it seems that Konoha had not only the strongest demon but the best sealing method, i think the sand had the worst sealing method since Gaara couldn't even sleep because of the risk of the demon taking over.

Originally Posted by Nintendo

im surprised she lived to tell the tale. i mean it almost seems like every time a tailed beast escapes its host the host dies.

I think it's better to say that the demon takes over, which means it consumes the body of the host and his soul is consumed or completely supressed. As we see when Naruto loses control his body transforms to the kyuubi's body and his soul is supressed, this can be reversed while the hosts soul is not completely consumed by the transformation. It was explained by KillerBee how this control and chakra thing works.
If Kushina somehow lost control over the kyuubi, possibly because of Madara's tricks, and then Kushina died because of that, it would be logical to have Kushina's soul somewhere inside the kyuubi, because her soul was consumed by the kyuubi, something similar to Sasuke consuming Orochimaru, as Naruto had supressed the kyuubi to some degree Kushina's soul could emerge from that supressed state and so she could meat Naruto. But since she does not have a body she's dead, so after her chatting with Naruto she can join Minato.

[Lunarskylar]

wow, kyubii got Rape-sanganed
haha kyubii should have a hulk mode after he goes "don't get me angry, you won't liek me when i'm angry"

and i'm naruto is singing to his mother right now "Your love your love your love, is my drug"

anyway in serious talk, i;m guessing madara found the kyuubi in kushina and broke her seal. i'm interested to see how kishi handles this, because this could be an epic plot twist (if he's actually been planning this for a while, which i hope he has)
otherwise, it might just be a pathetic retcon a la bleach and aizen's "i've been controlling everything since chapter 1" -___-

[Noe]

Wow, so Naruto's mom was the previous host. Interesting.

[bombyethan1000]

I don't understand one thing - why does the kyuubi mention the sage of the six paths before finally losing to naruto?

[Nite-Wing]

Originally Posted by bombyethan1000

I don't understand one thing - why does the kyuubi mention the sage of the six paths before finally losing to naruto?

Because he used the same technique the sage did to seal the Jyubi. Atleast it looked like he did.
No doubt in my mind how in one chapter Kishi can make naruto that overpowered is beyond me.

Its nice to see how the longer the manga goes on the only honest person who has told the truth the entire time is the villain Madara.

At least with 500 we get the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by bombyethan1000

I don't understand one thing - why does the kyuubi mention the sage of the six paths before finally losing to naruto?

For me it was always somehow illogical that the frogs have this knowledge of "sage-mode" which is so great compared to anything else, but none of the other summons display anything so special, other summons are not even close to this.
It would make sense if the one who invented the use of the natural energy was the sage of the 6 paths. In that case the frogs that were teaching this to Naruto would somehow be the last ones who have this ancient knowledge. Maybe the big and old frog was the sage's summon once, but since he can't remember thing he forgot the source of his knowledge, he gave that knowledge to Ma' and Pa' frogs. In that case it would make sense that the kyuubi having some memories of the 10-tails did find a resemblance between Naruto and the Sage.
Imagine Nagato learning the sage-mode, his chibaku tensei would be as large as the moon in that case.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

She said that she was kidnapped because of her special chakra, but if she already had the 9-tails she would be kidnapped because of the 9-tails. It would not make sense to tell about some less important bloodline but not even mention that the 9-tailed demon is being stoled by another village. Stealing the strongest demon leads to war, but Konoha ninja's didn't even care enough to search for Kushina harder. So we can safely assume that at the time of kidnapping the 9-tails was not sealed in Kushina.

I have major doubts that many people in Konoha, if anyone, knew Kushina was a jinchuuriki or that the Kyuubi was ever the village's bijuu. Mainly because of the way Konoha handled the Kyuubi attacking.

-First, they blamed the Uchiha. If Konoha had contained Kyuubi jinchuuriki before, their reasoning should've been that the bijuu's host had lost control. Instead, they (Danzou and elders) blamed the Uchiha because they could control the beast and therefore thought they brought the attack on the village. Even Sandaime couldn't provide enough reasoning to reject that claim, whereas if he knew that there was another valid explanation he wouldn't let Danzou make those accusations.

-Second, if Konoha had been home to previous Kyuubi jinchuuriki they should've been used to it escaping and resealing it like Kumokagure with the Hachibi. But the Kyuubi attack was treated as a major disaster, something Konoha was totally unprepared for and that no one in Konoha had any idea how to deal with short of the 4th and his self-lethal jutsu.

So if Konoha did have Kyuubi all along and Kushina was brought in to be the new host, the only way I could see it being explained is that only a few select people knew about it. Probably Minato, because he did seem crazy prepared for the attack, and possibly Danzou because blaming the Uchiha clan would be a good way of covering his tracks if he was involved with the Kyuubi.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by bombyethan1000

I don't understand one thing - why does the kyuubi mention the sage of the six paths before finally losing to naruto?

Naruto gained the little Rikudou spikes/horns and he had the magatama's that the Rikudou-Sennin possessed...

And, yet again, the Kyuubi proved that he had a full history of the Narutoverse effectively making the appearance of Minato and Kushina utterly pointless (besides a cheap emotional value of reuniting with his dead parents).

[Crimson Reaper]

Well this is a nice twist, that some have predicted for some time as well. It's theory time!
Perhaps the Uchiha and Senju weren't the only decendents of the Rikudou Sennin. Maybe the Village of the Whirlpool was made to secretly hide the strongest of the 9 Bijuu's within their bloodline and then one day Madara came along to get the Kyuubi and wiped them all out but Kushina escape. The problem with this theory is that Madara already use the Kyuubi once again the 1st Hokage.

In that case maybe after the 1st Hokage beat Madara he took the sealed Kyuubi to the remote Whirlpool country to hide it but then once again Madara came along and the ninjas quickly sealed the Kyuubi is Kushina and sent her away to Konoha.

Well I guess we have a long fortnight to wait. I'm quite interested in what Naruto said after he sealed Kyuubi away. One he actually let go of his hatred of the fox and two...He doesn't plan on keeping the Kyuubi's chakra that long? Is he already planning a way of using it to beat Sasuke and/or Madara in a way that he'll need to give it back? Or will he give it back because he'll feel it'll be needed for the next host?
He's up to something that's for sure.

[AnnaDavis]

Wow man. This seriously shocked me. Really surprising.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Mainly because of the way Konoha handled the Kyuubi attacking.

But Kishimoto didn't really tell much about that, the whole thing was kept a mystery, only few sentences/words about this in 10 years time. I mean most of our present ideas about what happened are probably different theories and assumptions made based on a very few words written in a mysterious way by Kishimoto, in 10 years we have invented so many theories that sometimes we confuse facts from the manga with our own assumptions. My memory is not the best but i'm sure that someone on Hunter's level of manga-knowledge can point out what were the only words/facts told by the manga about the kyuubi's exact role in the life of the village. You know, sometimes even the exact english words are not correct, you need to re-translate something from the 1st chapter of the manga because it has for example 3 different possible translations to english, and each has a slightly different meaning. Really precise translations can be done only when the whole story is known.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

-First, they blamed the Uchiha. If Konoha had contained Kyuubi jinchuuriki before, their reasoning should've been that the bijuu's host had lost control. Instead, they (Danzou and elders) blamed the Uchiha because they could control the beast and therefore thought they brought the attack on the village. Even Sandaime couldn't provide enough reasoning to reject that claim, whereas if he knew that there was another valid explanation he wouldn't let Danzou make those accusations.

In a sense Danzou was right, the cause of the attack was Madara controlling the kyuubi, Kushina with her special chakra would have never lost her control over the kyuubi if someone didn't force that on Kushina. They did know that a powerful sharingan was needed to control the demon, maybe thay have even seen the sharingan in kyuubi's eyes (remember Manda's sharingan eye while Sasuke controlled it). Why Sandaime could not prove the innocence of the Uchiha was because he didn't know that Madara is alive. So if you take out Madara from the equation then all evidence is against the Uchiha. Madara had a mask, and only one sharingan eye can be seen, so it would be logical to assume that it was an Uchiha, even if you don't know which one.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

-Second, if Konoha had been home to previous Kyuubi jinchuuriki they should've been used to it escaping and resealing it like Kumokagure with the Hachibi. But the Kyuubi attack was treated as a major disaster, something Konoha was totally unprepared for and that no one in Konoha had any idea how to deal with short of the 4th and his self-lethal jutsu.

What i remember is that it was said that Kyuubi attacked Konoha time to time, that coincides with KillerBee's story about the 8-tails breaking free and killing many good kumo ninjas.
The attack this time was stronger and more centered on the village because it was not just Kyuubi's mindless hate of Konoha but it was Madara's plan.

[shomai]

Ah! A good surprise at last (after 499 chapters!) I had a feeling the story was getting stagnant for a while.

And Naruto pwning the Kyuubi felt rushed.