2013-09-23, 14:49 | Link #1801 | ||
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Read the question that was being responded to, and then facepalm back at yourself. Arthur and Morgan are the closest to "true" human heroes, but we never see them really doing much so we aren't sure how heroic they are beyond being strong and not being completely anarchy-focused. |
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2013-09-23, 15:29 | Link #1802 | ||
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The Hero Faction are heroes from the human perspective, in the same way their namesakes were. This is acknowledged repeatedly in-universe. By the leaders of the factions being targeted. They. Are. Heroes. Arthur and Le Fay are part of the group going around beating the shit out of strong enemies, so they could qualify as well. The only objection would be that they team up with non-humans, but Vali's group ignores humans (and everyone else) if they aren't strong enough to be interesting.
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2013-09-23, 15:34 | Link #1803 |
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If by human perspective, you mean ignorant perspective, then sure. However, that same group of "heroes" was kidnapping and brainwashing anyone they could find with a Sacred Gear and committing terrorist actions. That's not heroic, hence the term "true heroes" and him excluding the "hero terrorists".
The closest to a true hero for the humans, ironically enough, is Issei's group. This isn't about perspective, but "reality". Unfortunately, none are humans unless you count Morgan le Fay as part of the group. |
2013-09-23, 18:43 | Link #1804 | ||||
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And as far as dragon swagger goes just look at Saji his was strong enough with just 1 of Vritra's 4 SG was enough to get him 2 ladies. Quote:
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2013-09-23, 18:51 | Link #1805 |
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[QUOTE=kusabireika;4842251]I wonder the reason that all girls are in issei home coz issei parent might targeted by enemies •_• just wondering, I wonder if the Khaos brigade might target them and use them as hostage •_• lastly what will happen if issei parent knows that issei is a devil
Volume 4, special life. "According to the story, Sirzechs-sama apparently proposed this for the sake of improving the physical relationship of our family." The only thing mentioned about any attack was the new house being able to survive a war, and Ise wondering if there were any cannons hidden in the house. |
2013-09-24, 00:36 | Link #1806 | |
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Sorry, but your just wrong here. In case the constant in-universe reminders weren't enough, the Gremories and their allies are extremely abnormal in their level of kindness to both servants and others. Remember how Raiser reacted when he was "forced" to come to the Human World to see Rias? That was a moderate reaction. All three of the Biblical factions use humans for their convenience, and before you say anything, remember Abe, the beast trainer senpai? She was someone who knew about the hidden side of the world, and it was common sense to her to guard her words around Rias lest she lose her soul. And this is not including the who knows how many people die because of fights between supernatural beings. It doesn't even have to be a war, it could just be some random rouge devil. The Heroes came about in the first place to fight monsters and supernatural beings. And while their descendants are certainly less than praiseworthy in their methods, they are basically doing the same thing. Now once more, because you seem to have ignored this part: the heads of the Biblical factions acknowledge that from the perspective of humanity in general (as in, the ones who know whats going on) they are the bad guys and the Heroes would be the good ones. About the kidnapping thing: yes, Cao Cao is an ass for doing this. However, remember Reynalle? She killed Ise on Azazels orders because he was holding a potentially dangerous Sacred Gear. The Asia thing was out of line and would have gotten her into trouble, but Ise's death was a straightforward order. Azazel admits this. The factions are as bad as the Heroes. And in later volumes it's revealed that during the attack of the Jabberwocky and Bandersnatch, many reincarnated devils who (this is explicitly mentioned in text) had been forced to become servants for their powers (i.e. Sacred Gears) revolted. I forgot what we were arguing about.
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2013-09-24, 01:09 | Link #1807 | |
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It's been shown that the Old Maou faction is pretty much just like their originators that were killed during the great war and resent the current Maou for changing things and pulling out of the war. Rias said that while sometimes bad deals are made where the humans are victimized it is not the norm for the current devil system who has been trying to imitate the human society by making devil contracts like a business. In the past the heroes were a necessity that would take out the supernaturals to protect humanity but now they are just a relic with no real reason for existence since everything has changed since the current Maou took power. There is a reason why Le Fay and Arthur don't associate with them because they've seen that they are blinded by their own pride in the past to move past it and change... Just like the Old Maou faction. Let me get back to the good point you made earlier about Reynalle killing Issei. While it may look bad. From their point of view it was an absolute necessity. The 3 factions had been at odds yes, but their battles were mostly small scaled and no humans, as a whole, would get hurt aside from slight collateral damage and such. If Issei who was the Sekiryuutei would've unlocked his power Vali of course would've challenged him and their battle would not only cause massive human casualties but threaten the peace that Azazel, Sirzechs and Micheal had no doubt been planning for years probably. Kokobiels whole attack was because he KNEW Azazel was planning a peace summit so killing Issei to protect his plans is justified in the big picture.
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2013-09-24, 08:46 | Link #1808 | ||||
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Reynalle killing Ise was not her being a bitch (the way she did it was, but that's not important) it was her following orders. It was normal. When confronted, Azazel gives Ise an annoyed look and comments "It's only natural to eliminate powers that could potentially threaten the organization". This was just how they operated. Also, Kokabiel had no idea there was going to be a conference, because there wasn't one at the time. He was trying to restart the war because he was dissatisfied with the conclusion. Hell, the conference wasn't even a peace conference, it was an attempt to keep the stalemate from collapsing after Kokabiels actions. Azazel just built off that to try and make the peace official. Now let me be clear on something. I don't support the Hero Factions actions, nor am I accusing the Gremories of anything. I'm simply pointing out that this is not a Black and White Morality situation. It is at best one where both sides are in the Gray area.
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2013-09-24, 09:10 | Link #1809 | |
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The original question was whether there were any "true heroes" for humans, to which the answer is basically "no". |
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2013-09-24, 14:24 | Link #1811 | |
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2013-09-24, 16:40 | Link #1813 |
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You aren't listening. We were talking about humanities perspective. The Hero Faction fights the supernatural beings that endanger their lives, so they are "real heroes" to humans. This is acknowledged in story, so arguing against it is pointless. From the Alliances perspective they are terrorists, but from humanities they are heroes. So in answer to the question "are there any real heroes for the humans" the answer is yes.
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2013-09-24, 18:27 | Link #1815 | |||
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2013-09-24, 18:43 | Link #1816 | |
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The only point I was trying to make was that EVERY faction has it's bad and good parts ie; gray area morality like you put it. Although imo the hero faction instead of trying to protect humanity, they were seeking all out conflict whether for greed or pride.
Also it takes two to commit to a soul being taken through a contract, if someone is stupid enough to let their greed overpower their common sense that's their problem. From what I gathered in the novels is that the norm in devil society is to make contracts for money or monetary gain like the Gremory's do. Quote:
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2013-09-24, 19:17 | Link #1817 | ||
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Heck Rias had to partially seal his powers after he became a devil. Quote:
But unfortunately especially with a story like this it would still be a matter of perspective with a lot of the stuff as to whether what your doing is committing an atrocity of slaying a monster and it's brood of hell spawn. The thing is the Griemory group has caused you to humanize supernatural beings it's rather unlikely to happen with a human in there universe normal person would see them as a monster pure and simple and those in the know wouldn't think much better given the sketchy nature of the groups. |
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2013-09-25, 03:39 | Link #1819 |
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Well, to bring some kind of change to the discussed topic, recently I started wondering what are going to be the potential power ups of the other members of the Occult Research Club.
Most specifically, what are going to be the power ups of Rossweisse and Irina, since I think that the other members path to become stronger, have been more or less covered in volume 14 of the novels. This is my current speculation on this topic: In the case of Rossweisse, I think that her next power up is going to be related with the Valkyrie part of her being, since ... from what I remember, apart from being able to use a huge variety of magic spells , we haven't got a clear explanation on what a Valkyrie is capable of, in this novel, and I think that it would be interesting if the author has given us some more details about this. Irina's case is more difficult, since the only thing that I can think of, which would also not turn Irina into an Akeno clone from the Angel side, is for her to actually start being able to use her Brave Saint traits as an individual - since, after all, we haven't got a clear explanation on what kind of abilities a resurrected Angel gets, from this system. |
2013-09-25, 03:58 | Link #1820 | |
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About irina I guess beside the user of mass produce holy demonic sword, what do you think will her powerup?
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Last edited by kusabireika; 2013-09-25 at 04:27. |
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