Psycho-Pass 2 - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Aniwatcher]

I really like the show's depiction of what an Orwell society looks like. Everything is nice and perfect on the surface only because most people has been indoctrinated to act like sheeps.

When the old man starts to go crazy. the other people decides to just cower in fear and listen to all his orders. He only has a baton, none of the younger men even thought of just overpowering him.

When one of the workers had a nail gun and thought to use it on the old men to put and end to the madness, The cop lady uttered the dumbest statist thing ever "don't use it, I will save everyone"!!. Seriously, you are tied up half naked. people are dying while you are still helpless and you stop the one guy who could easily put an end to all this and telling him essentially to wait for the police, because "only the police can help save people".

I seriously hope that this Utopian society of theirs finally collapse this season.

[MartianMage]

As others have mentioned a lot of parts didn't really made sense... kinda hard to get shocked when I'm scratching my head a lot of times this episode really...

[Wandering Soul]

Well this episode was the most shocking one so far but Aoyanagi's parts were just cringe worthy. I get that Inspectors are rely heavily on their dominators but as Kanon put it, it stopped being a matter of being reliant and started being a matter of common sense. Character deaths rarely impact me when they happen because of pure stupidity.

[Aniwatcher]

Originally Posted by the one above all

Well this episode was the most shocking one so far but Aoyanagi's parts were just cringe worthy. I get that Inspectors are rely heavily on their dominators but as Kanon put it, it stopped being a matter of being reliant and started being a matter of common sense. Character deaths rarely impact me when they happen because of pure stupidity.

It makes perfect sense to me because I see alot of that IRL. Especially people who are in the bureaucracy. There are no common sense there. Its mostly just follow the arbitrary procedures and avoid doing anything that make you liable for any responsibility if anything goes wrong. Common sense is dead because most of the people in this utopian society of theirs are already dead on the inside.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Aniwatcher

When the old man starts to go crazy. the other people decides to just cower in fear and listen to all his orders. He only has a baton, none of the younger men even thought of just overpowering him.

I'm pretty sure this guy did just that. Not that it did him much good.

Originally Posted by Aniwatcher

When one of the workers had a nail gun and thought to use it on the old men to put and end to the madness, The cop lady uttered the dumbest statist thing ever "don't use it, I will save everyone"!!.

Well, in all probability, the guy with the nail gun was Kamui, so he wouldn't have done anything anyway. But yeah it's not like Aoyanagi knew that, and her decision-making was pretty questionable in general to say the least. But hey, at least they had her go out in gorgeous and surprisingly detailed lingerie (so that's where the budget for this season went!) in order to make up for that idiot ball they passed her.

[akumaten]

What a twisted episode.
This solidify the fact that I hope that the Sybil system gets taken down.
Mika was kind of bitchy.

[Haruyasha]

I do like seinen ... but this was a little too much for me.

Also, if Kamui has a scar on his face... Makes me wonder what that's all about. Brain surgery?

Originally Posted by akumaten

Rika was kind of bitchy.

Isn't she always? She's like one of the most rotton characters in the entire series.

[kitten320]

Somehow this season does not sit right with me at all.

We are reusing last season's problem: Not being spotted by scan. And yet instead of being more mature and experienced about this, they act like complete retards. Many times worse then back in season 1 when this type of case was completely new. WTF?

And why the hell self defence classes are not part of inspector's training? Especially after everything that happened in season 1?

And Mika... oh boy... I tried not to mind her until now but she really took a cake here. Whole building locked, crime coefficient rising and... nothing! Then some random dude answers inspector's phone and announces something clearly insane and she goes "We didn't get an order."

Are you a f*cking retard?! Some psycho got a hold of inspector's phone and you are waiting for that exact inspector to answer when she most likely is already dead?!

There is one thing to be rule obsessed and another to be an IDIOT! How the hell did you become an inspector with no common sense?

You better have a proper think over of your actions! If you still can't figure out why you were taken off duty, you dear Mika, should retire right away! I'm not going to deal with your idiocy any more. You were far more likeable in season 1.


And are all inspectors dumb? Whole building taken over, clearly by someone, scared victims half naked and crying are running to safety and you freaking shoot them? Of course their coefficient is high, they got abducted!

This episode was not a shocker, it was extremely painful to watch because of how much characters are lacking common sense here. Akane seem to be the only saint in this season!

What happened to all of that cool build up from season 1? I loved that season! This one however, is a complete disaster so far.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by kitten320

This episode was not a shocker, it was extremely painful to watch because of how much characters are lacking common sense here.

But that's exactly what the creators are pointing out about the world of Psycho-Pass: it's full of people who lack common sense.

The first question that needs to be answered is WHY. Why has the Japan of PP become a place full of people who lack common sense?

This answer was given to us in season one: we are again seeing the full effects of it here.

So the second question that needs to be asked is WHAT should be done about it? Which raises other questions: WHO, HOW, WHEN etc. The WHO question is especially important, because it should help answer the puzzle of 'why in the world have they done nothing about this?!'

To generalise my first point further: this is a world full of contradictions, a world that doesn't make sense, a world that operates only because of certain assumptions. When those assumptions are challenged by someone who doesn't fit into the system, then the system starts to fray. But what's the breaking point where it all really and truly falls apart? We didn't get there last season: will we this time?

[Klashikari]

The problem is that the series is pushing this issue ad nauseam.
By season 1, the audience already realize that the system itself is flawed to no end, due to its own limitations and so forth. And thus far, season 2 doesn't address the issue either, it is yet another reenactment of "psycho exploiting the system weakness" shenanigans, with even less subtelty between the protagonists and the antagonist.

When a series use the rinse and repeat process without much actual progression in term of a solution, it makes you wonder the whole point of it.
If there was a tiny bit of progression (such like self defense lessons or inspectors having the authority to make independant actions/decisions), that would have been fine... except it is the frigging same circus.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The problem is that the series is pushing this issue ad nauseam.
By season 1, the audience already realize that the system itself is flawed to no end, due to its own limitations and so forth. And thus far, season 2 doesn't address the issue either, it is yet another reenactment of "psycho exploiting the system weakness" shenanigans, with even less subtelty between the protagonists and the antagonist.

When a series use the rinse and repeat process without much actual progression in term of a solution, it makes you wonder the whole point of it.
If there was a tiny bit of progression (such like self defense lessons or inspectors having the authority to make independant actions/decisions), that would have been fine... except it is the frigging same circus.

The first season was about a sociopathic anarchist with a personality disorder trying to bring down the system by cultivating madness or human nature. He gamed the system but his disciples did not. They were mad and they used a machine to hide themselves when they could. The overlords wanted his brain for the collective.

The new season season is about a person who can avoid the scans and is trying to test and bring down the system with sanity or calmness. His subjects don't need a machine to have clear psyches, they can control their states of mind while doing horrible things.

We know the hive mind of serial killer sociopath brains that rule the city are interested in testing the system they watch over. The killer could just be one of them in a cyborg body.

[atua]

Originally Posted by kitten320

And are all inspectors dumb? Whole building taken over, clearly by someone, scared victims half naked and crying are running to safety and you freaking shoot them? Of course their coefficient is high, they got abducted!

I think this was one of the only parts that made any sense in the whole episode. Chief Kasei was in full propaganda mode; barricading the area to avoid potential witnesses, media blackout, etc. She sent in a trigger-happy goon squad with a fancy new rifle with the deliberate intent that a bloodbath occur to eliminate loose ends. Because if she was actually interested in what happened, killing all the witnesses in a building that had its electricity cut (and thus no working cameras) is not the way to go...

[Klashikari]

I'm not implying Kamui and Makishima have the same amibitious or MO, but the outcome is pretty much the same: overturn the current system.
Both are going back and forth, bypassing the system altogether.

Whether or not Sybil want to get a new brain isn't the problem. What is the critical issue at hand is that the very sociopath they want to get is also a very dangerous factor in their iron gauntlet ruling habits.
Makishima alone was enough to nearly take down the system by denying Japan of its self sufficient attribute. If someone like that could do that, I -really- have doubt you would let things unchecked once again.

Again, I don't expect Sybil to magically address all potential asymptomatic criminals or other weakness exploiters, but their "eyes" and "hands", as in enforcers and inspectors, are pretty much sitting ducks exactly because of the system weakness. Hence why I question the purpose of the latter, since Sybil would have the very same result by dispatching drones mounted with Dominator and a trigger happy mode for the hell of it.
Season 2 is actually making the Sybil system loophole even more glaring than it was in season 1. For a so called perfect system that has to use their own discretion to keep their rule solid and unquestioned, the brains are pretty much screwing around, big time.

[prototype_sky]

Well this episode was just a recap of everything wrong with that system.

Wonder if his plan is to raise the hue of all the inspectors.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Aniwatcher

It makes perfect sense to me because I see alot of that IRL. Especially people who are in the bureaucracy. There are no common sense there. Its mostly just follow the arbitrary procedures and avoid doing anything that make you liable for any responsibility if anything goes wrong. Common sense is dead because most of the people in this utopian society of theirs are already dead on the inside.

Yeah. The rookie is in pure "bureaucrat" mode. All the cops are products of the same system. The were raised by Sybil.

She was playing it by the book, as was Division 3.


Akane is different because she herself is a freak and considered "gifted." The overlords were impressed by her and have allowed her to keep their secret. She was also exposed to Kogami and Saiga.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The problem is that the series is pushing this issue ad nauseam.
By season 1, the audience already realize that the system itself is flawed to no end, due to its own limitations and so forth. And thus far, season 2 doesn't address the issue either, it is yet another reenactment of "psycho exploiting the system weakness" shenanigans, with even less subtelty between the protagonists and the antagonist.

When a series use the rinse and repeat process without much actual progression in term of a solution, it makes you wonder the whole point of it.
If there was a tiny bit of progression (such like self defense lessons or inspectors having the authority to make independant actions/decisions), that would have been fine... except it is the frigging same circus.

As mechalord pointed out, the antagonist is trying to do something different. What Makishima attempted ultimately did not break the system. But was he really trying to break the system, or was his goal more personal/selfish? Unlike you, I'd argue that his goal was ultimately personal: it seems like he was trying to express his own individuality in a system where going along with what you're told to do is valued.

This time, the antagonist is directly challenging the system in order to bring it down - that's his goal. That's already a key difference, so I don't see the 'rinse-and-repeat' issue that you seem to have.

Also, we are four episodes into an 11-episode series, with all indications being that this is the core plotline of this series. So why would there be much progress in terms of a solution, especially when the key actors who can enact a solution (i.e. the brains that run Sibyl) don't actually want to own up to the problem in the first place?

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm not implying Kamui and Makishima have the same amibitious or MO, but the outcome is pretty much the same: overturn the current system.
Both are going back and forth, bypassing the system altogether.

Whether or not Sybil want to get a new brain isn't the problem. What is the critical issue at hand is that the very sociopath they want to get is also a very dangerous factor in their iron gauntlet ruling habits.
Makishima alone was enough to nearly take down the system by denying Japan of its self sufficient attribute. If someone like that could do that, I -really- have doubt you would let things unchecked once again.

Again, I don't expect Sybil to magically address all potential asymptomatic criminals or other weakness exploiters, but their "eyes" and "hands", as in enforcers and inspectors, are pretty much sitting ducks exactly because of the system weakness. Hence why I question the purpose of the latter, since Sybil would have the very same result by dispatching drones mounted with Dominator and a trigger happy mode for the hell of it.
Season 2 is actually making the Sybil system loophole even more glaring than it was in season 1. For a so called perfect system that has to use their own discretion to keep their rule solid and unquestioned, the brains are pretty much screwing around, big time.

The Overlords don't care if cops die. All they care about is perfecting the system and running the city.

And they do like having their system cracked. Everyone who does it or impresses them gets "invited" into the hive mind/collective.

The Sybil system is designed for keeping normal people controlled. The extreme minority without consciences, the true sociopaths can not be detected... since this could probably threaten the Overlords.

[Allium]

Damn, that was messed up. The MWPSB walked right into Kamui's trap.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by karice67

As mechalord pointed out, the antagonist is trying to do something different. What Makishima attempted ultimately did not break the system. But was he really trying to break the system, or was his goal more personal/selfish? This time, the antagonist is directly challenging the system in order to bring it down - that's his goal. That's already a key difference, so I don't see the 'rinse-and-repeat' issue that you seem to have.

The rinse and repeat mention merely points out the issue I have with the second season: Kamui and Makishima don't have the same perspective, ambitions nor motivations, yet their purpose and goal are exactly the same.
Following this, it is yet another "a special individual is challenging the system" situation where the very same shortcomings appear to be obvious.

When a system is flawed, logically speaking, those in control of such system would either 1) fix the actual issue or 2) elaborate counter measures.
Yet, we still have enforcers and inspectors being completely useless the moment they can't use the dominator on their target.
Simply put, it is as if Makishima's actions didn't affect anything to the point the system is the -very- same than prior S1 ep1, which is ludicrous no matter how you look at it, since Sybil is not a machine or an IA, but a collective consciousness plugged on brains that can learn. As such, having the -very same- ol' system doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Also, we are four episodes into an 11-episode series, with all indications being that this is the core plotline of this series. So why would there be much progress in terms of a solution, especially when the key actors who can enact a solution (i.e. the brains that run Sibyl) don't actually want to own up to the problem in the first place?

It is exactly because it is only a 1 cour series that I'm really questioning the need of such presentation.
Having again the same pattern, taking already a quarter of the episode count to have an obvious reminder of the system weakness is a big deal, especially that some characters aside of Akane should be aware of the that (Ginoza knows full well about Makishima with all the crap happened in S1, yet still couldn't really believe Kamui exist).

Meanwhile, it is extremely doubtful Sybil would ignore such kind of issue. Past the possibility of capturing another brain to their collection, if they don't have any appropriate countermeasure for this kind of individual, their rule could be put in jeopardy altogether.

Originally Posted by mechalord

The Overlords don't care if cops die. All they care about is perfecting the system and running the city.

And they do like having their system cracked. Everyone who does it or impresses them gets "invited" into the hive mind/collective.

The Sybil system is designed for keeping normal people controlled. The extreme minority without consciences, the true sociopaths can not be detected... since this could probably threaten the Overlords.

I never stated otherwise. The whole thing is that Makishima alone almost took down their system altogether.
Beyond being a very valuable sample for them, Makishima was also a very dangerous individual since he could have been the end of them if he wasn't stopped.

Whether or not they lose cops isn't the issue. A system like theirs need countermeasure so their little "play the king" humor would be left intact.
That's also why your mention of "perfecting the system" is kind of amusing to me because they aren't perfecting it at all: the simple presence of an irregular is enough to tell you that the system has a flaw that can be abused. By definition, you certainly want to learn more about that irregular to perfect the system, but in the meantime, you need countermeasure to avoid risks of having the system completely destroyed.
I can see why Makishima was left unchecked because it is probably the first asymptomatic criminal that could muster riots to that extent. But by the end of S1, I find reasonable to think that Sybil would actually have countermeasures to handle this kind of situation, per their obsession to be a perfect system no less.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Sybil would have the very same result by dispatching drones mounted with Dominator and a trigger happy mode for the hell of it.

Well the guns don't auto fire it's still up to the inspectors and enforcers to use their judgement and not pull the trigger.

There was a case were we avoid WW3 because a human didn't trust the readings from the computer and waited it out.

Division 3 was a hit squad they were there to shoot anything over 300. Maybe having robots carrying Dominators would raise stress levels of the population