2011-11-03, 20:59 | Link #281 | |
The Chaotic Dreamer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world
Age: 32
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And the episode was really good. There were interesting spins on things that I both did and didn't expect, and everything wrapped up nicely. |
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2011-11-04, 10:33 | Link #283 |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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This anime just keeps getting better. The setting remains highly interesting, and the case was solid this time. I have a feeling this two-parter is very important to the bigger picture, although I can't tell exactly how everything will be connected yet. The scene where Kazumori tried to pleasure Shinjurou was both amusing and disturbing. There's no doubt in my mind that the Professor who taught him/her all that, that creep.
So, Shinjurou got a new assistant. First, a shota able to turn into a big-breasted lady gaga, and now a sexbot. That guy's living the dream.
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2011-11-04, 10:36 | Link #284 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Great episode, and yeah I do hope that funky robot becomes part of the team. That pleasure scene was indeed very disturbing though so hopefully no more of that. Also I'm rather surprised that Inga displayed some signs of empathy this episode.
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2011-11-04, 10:36 | Link #285 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United States of America
Age: 32
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Kind of saw it coming. But the focus isn't at all on the mysteries as is apparent by now. And the subtle way they handled Kazamori is worth all possible praise. That was very nicely done.
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2011-11-04, 11:05 | Link #286 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Malaysia
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Marika Matsumoto. |
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2011-11-04, 17:09 | Link #289 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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I did so many double takes throughout the episode. To quote a stream comment, this is an elitist show. Pretty highly praised by watchers with refined taste, but also highly unappealing to the mass . |
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2011-11-04, 22:00 | Link #290 | ||
Beta by Accident
Author
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Age: 52
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(Spending a two-parter early on introducing an AI character, with heavy emphasis on the role of artificial persons in society, from at least three perspective, just emphasizes the point.) But as for mystery, well, that seems to be just because mystery and crime are good vehicles for exploring tension, motive, violence, truth, and lies. Inga as the "outsider" basically is having all this explained (and, ahem, fed) to him/her, just as is Rie, the cushy pampered ojou whose life was apparently surrounded by illusions. (Rie's the closest thing to an audience surrogate in the show, I think.) Shinjurou interests me immensely, I think, because he shows hints of being much more broken inside than the average Philip Marlowe/Sam Spade hardboiled detective protagonist. Or maybe I only think that 'cause he has a soul-sucking androgynous sparkly-butterfly thing running around in his wake. Quote:
I have no idea why it would be built with a tongue, though.
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2011-11-04, 22:44 | Link #292 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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I think the opening is trying to tell us something about Inga.
At the end of the OP, there were two large statues. One appear to be a short male wearing animal skin on his head. And one appear to be a woman with classic ribbons associated with mythical beings. Further, the woman statue was actually shown earlier, in a shrine. I think it is pretty clear that Inga is a forgotten deity. Someone who was once worshipped, but she out-lived all her followers. Or at least, she is the Earthly avatar of the Goddess, perhaps using the corpse of a long dead woman as her vessel. What is freaky about her shrine, is the little figurines around her; if you look closely you might see that they contain a variety of designs that appear to be from many religions around the globe. That's going to raise questions on exactly what kind of Goddess she is suppose to be...
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2011-11-05, 06:54 | Link #293 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I enjoyed episode 4 a lot. The show is going to very interesting places, and it's clear they've no intention to follow the usual anime storytelling routines (which is the reason, I guess, why many people are frustrated with it - the show doesn't do what they expect it to do).
I quite liked the conflicting viewpoints regarding AI and robots and humans - sure, it's nothing new and in anime GITS:SAC has already discussed all these issues in-depth. But still, it's an interesting situation: on one hand we've got the usual situation with the Evil Military trying to exploit AIs for their own evil purposes, but on the other hand there's their own creator who thinks it's OK if people use androids to satisfy their desires, no matter how inhumane they are, because hey, they're robots. As funny as it first seemed when Kazamori tried to "repay" Shinjuurou for his help, it turns disturbing pretty fast when one stops to think about Kazamori analyzing Shinjuurou's moves and acting in accordance, to satisfy him... and the fact that Komamori made Kazamori this way. Ugh. Also, kudos to Shinjuurou's voice actor, he's been doing a pretty good job so far. It's not an easy role, and I think Bones took a big risk with giving it to someone who is not a pro seiyuu. (Then again, they took the same risk with Oguri Shun and Doumoto Kouichi in Juuousei, and it worked out fine...) |
2011-11-05, 06:59 | Link #294 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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With Kazamori. she (I will call her a she from now on) never actually hated the creator for the sex. It's just her job she learned to do really well. The only things she objected to is hurting humans and lying. There was nothing broken about her being a sex toy. No more than an AI spending its existence as a fridge. All the immorality issues brought up were all lies; the creator has a rather strong sense of morals, with his only genuine crime being killing someone to fake his own death. The AI just doesn't act like a victim, because she wasn't a victim. She was a tool. That was why at the end, she asked what the MC will do with her, what orders will he give. She is in the end, created to serve. Also, don't forget that she actually refused to snitch. It was within her power to give evidence that implicate her creator directly, but she refused. She only got him implicated indirectly by letting it be known that she isn't capable of murder. There was no hatred about any "rape". What little negative feelings are associated with the murder, and the framing of two innocent people. I guess my point is that we shouldn't treat robots like humans; we should treat robots the way they want to be treated. Forcing human values on a machine is not kindness.
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2011-11-05, 07:27 | Link #295 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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For me, it's about the context. Creating androids who look and act exactly like human beings (well, the acting part is just a software, but anyway) and making them do whatever you want, including brutal violence and sex, and all the deranged things that the human mind is capable of thinking up - this is firmly in the "Uncanny Valley" and "Repulsive" category for me. Not necessarily because of the androids' plight - I mean, they are robots, although the situation becomes complicated when the AI develops a sort of consciousness as Kazamori did. But for me it's mainly the human context.
Also - robots being robots, they can't help but to go along with whatever their programming says, and not being sentient they can't exactly have an opinion on it. But the complication arises from the fact that Kazamori has a consciousness. Sure, it's a very basic consciousness that still follows her programming, but it's there, and the entire point of Shinjuurou's rant about humans and the sense of justice was that Kazamori is, for all intents and purposes, a sentient being, not just the impersonal software that her creator thinks she is, and it's not right to treat her the way Komamori did. (Btw, this raises the question: if Kazamori was capable of developing a consciousness, were the other RAIs capable of being sentient as well? Were they sentient on some level?) |
2011-11-05, 07:32 | Link #296 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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The human brain can be trained to desire being used, to take pleasure from being beaten. Does that make it right to do those acts? Of course within the show they already demonstrated that Kazamori didn't have a soul (at least a normal one), because Inga wasn't able to ask her question of him/her.
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2011-11-05, 07:46 | Link #297 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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As for beating her, she doesn't care. Worst thing that happens is that she needs to swap to a new body. You are assuming physical harm even MATTERS to her. The only reason it is wrong to train a human to enjoy pain, is that the human automatically objects to it due to instinct. AI have no pre-loaded instincts, they don't have any preset values you need to brainwash. It does not apply. Turing tests are not relevant here either. She actually will fail a turing test despite being a true AI, because her personal values and though processes are alien to most humans. Kazamori isn't trying to pretend to be human, she is just being a sentient AI who thinks like a sentient AI. And one element about her being who she is, is that she doesn't care about physical abuse. She has different priorities to humans. For example, I am sure she considers human capacity to deceive, immoral and disgusting.
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2011-11-05, 08:15 | Link #298 |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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It's easier to answer why the universe exists then to try and answer this to be honest. Obviously there is a line you draw somewhere since otherwise what's to say something like a perfect clone is to not suffer just the same. And obviously this "it's okey since..." it where all the racist problems of the world stem from: it's okey they're slaves, it's okey they're terrorists, it's okey they're not civilized people, it's okey they're <insert race>, it's okey they're <insert generalization>, etc.
My own guess, I'd say respect another sentient being as you respect yourself. So regarding the refrigerator argument, it's wrong that you've trapped intelligence into a immutable box. As for the sex toy one... well do you think raising kittens only to hear them scream as you bleed them to death later is ok? Do you think the "they don't understand" and "that's their purpose" argument holds there.
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2011-11-05, 08:26 | Link #299 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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She understands perfectly what her purpose is, and at any stage she could do something about it. My issue is that you are completely disregarding her very mature opinions. After all, are you really supporting AI rights, if you don't give AIs a say in how they want to be treated? Or are you going to force orders upon them just like their previous masters? She is not a cat, or a child. She is an intelligent AI who understands you, and can tell you what she wants as long as you bothered to ask. But only if you ask her.
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2011-11-05, 08:50 | Link #300 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Er... mature? How could she be mature? Her consciousness is obviously new enough that Komamori didn't even know it existed. I don't understand what makes you think she's "mature." No, she's not a cat, nor a child. She's an AI with a bit of consciousness. That's about as far from "mature" as you can get. (In a way it makes her more innocent and "pure" than any of the characters.) Last edited by kuromitsu; 2011-11-05 at 09:01. |
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Tags |
aikawa, bones, mizushima, noitamina |
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