Hanasaku Iroha (generic discussion thread)

[Kaoru Chujo]

I've just made a characters/seiyuus page for this show, with pics of all the main characters and their seiyuus, and a bit of info about each.

A couple of things really struck me. First, among the supporting cast are several seiyuus with a lot of experience in dubbing movies and TV, and even in TV dramas. That is helping to produce the generally high level of acting here.

I was also surprised that Minko was played by Omigawa Chiaki. Maybe it's just that Minko is a woman of few words, but I didn't hear either the flat version of Omigawa-san's voice, or the moe version.

Originally Posted by cyth

Our world has like a gazillion different value systems. We could argue it's what sets off most disputes, be them wars or even heads clashing on forums. Can't really blame anybody for it; it takes people their entire lifetimes to really get comfortable with this idea. Some just die thinking they were "right" the whole time.

Sometimes they are right. Just because we have to try to be unbiased doesn't mean we can't make judgments. Different cultural habits produce different cultural results. Results that oppress people and/or do not produce enough food or goods or happiness are worse than those that do. I think we should be constantly trying to adopt other cultures' better traits and reject our own worse ones. And their worse ones. Of course, as a North American, I believe in cultural flexibility and the ability to change. Maybe even sometimes for the better, lol.

Isn't it great that this show has given us so much to think about in one episode? We are talking about cultural norms here, but I expect to see most of the characters transcend their stereotypes. I feel as if they are going to become more and more complex.

I am very familiar with both American and Greater China cultural norms, and there are faults to both. Being too permissive can be an American fault, but physical and mental abuse of children can be an Asian fault. I think there is a happy medium somewhere in the middle, with strictness and seriousness, but without violence, and with some respect for the child as a person.

[coolhorsems]

Just KUSO


^_^

[Triple_R]

While I've now read enough "keep it in cultural/Asian drama context" defenses of the grandmother to be convinced that she probably will end up being a generally helpful/good (as in "not antagonistic") character by the end of this anime, I also felt that it might help bridge any understanding gaps if one of her critics (me) went into greater detail over why I found her so unlikable.


Personally, I realize that there may be some validity to a strict disciplinarian approach, especially for someone who is acting both as your legal guardian and as your boss. And I would even say that low level corporeal punishment is probably defensible (i.e. the classic slap across the wrist).

The problem right now, for me, is that the grandmother takes it a fair bit over-the-line. She's not simply a strict disciplinarian, she's treating Ohana like a maggot. She's like a freakin' Boot Camp drill instructor in how she talks to Ohana in how far she goes in using downright degrading speech towards Ohana. Ohana didn't join the army, she's just working at an inn. This is awfully intense for a quaint Hot Springs Inn, lol. Even the guests are kind of aware of that in how nervously they reacted to how profusely apologetic Ohana's mom was.

Then there's the form of corporeal punishment. A few hard slaps across the face, severe enough to result in a nose bleed? Ouch...


But, all this being said, I reiterate that I have now been convinced that the grandmother will likely improve as time goes on, and be shown in a more positive light near/at the end.

I just want people here who are defending her to have a better idea of why she came off so badly to some of us. Her degree of harshness is pretty unusual outside of an Asian drama, I think.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by coolhorsems

Just KUSO

Spoiler:

^_^

Lmao.

I just want people here who are defending her to have a better idea of why she came off so badly to some of us. Her degree of harshness is pretty unusual outside of an Asian drama, I think.

Not really. My grandmother on my father's side is exactly like her. Old school Asian grandparents can be quite scary.

Although I meant what I said before, I did not intend to mean to say Asian values > Western values nor what the Grandmother did is "correct" or "right". I just wanted to emphasize to the people that are saying that the grandmother is senile and totally evil with no justification are totally not getting it. As Kaoru Chujo and some others have said, no value system is the "correct" one, we can only conclude West and Eastern values are "different" and the values from both cultures both have their good and bad points.

For example, in the West, women have better legal standing and are not expected to be the sole/primary childbearer in the family anymore, whilst in the East, women are largely expected to give up their career once they get married. Women are also expected to get married before reaching their late 20s, whilst in the West we see a lot more single women. On other end of the spectrum, Westerners tend to have much less respect for their elders, whilst in the East respect for elders is largely acknowledged. To complement this, elders don't tend to discipline their children as much in the West, whilst in the East, they may over-discipline them.

Pros and cons for each culture. Ideal form of culture would be somewhere in between.

[BBOvenGuy]

The opening episode reminded me of the live-action j-drama Teru Teru Ashita. Only this show doesn't have any ghosts.

[Taufiq91]

Okay, here's my rebuttal "keep it in cultural/Asian drama context":

I live in Malaysia, studied in Indonesia & work in Singapore. And we pretty much have moved on from "traditional Asian authoritarianism" (like what you saw with Ohana's grandma) and basically adopted European business traditions.

But then again, all three countries have a huge English-speaking population so i think it has to do more with economic co-operation and post-colonialism.

It's ironic that Southeast Asia's way of business have become more evolved and comparable to Western standards than in the Far East.

[TurkeyPotPie]

Enjoyable first episode. I didn't find the slapping that shocking, but then again I have a Korean mother and was no stranger to corporal punishment as a child. I did find slapping across the face a little surprising for one reason: it can leave marks/bruises. When my mother disciplined my sister or me, she would paddle (with a board) the soles of our feet. I didn't realize until much later why she did that: every step you took after a paddling hurt and reminded you of what you were being punished for, and more importantly it didn't leave obvious bruises that people outside the family could see.

I also experienced the elder sibling being punished for the younger's infractions. It only happened once when I was about four years old, but I distinctly remember it. My sister (about eight at the time) was paddled for something I had done because she was considered responsible for me. It was a highly effective because I was very guilty about my sister being punished for something I had done.

This was all over thirty years ago though, and I think attitudes have softened since then (if all the talk I hear from relatives about how "soft" everyone is on kids nowadays is true ). I don't consider anything I experienced to have been particularly harsh either. I can remember some of the kids I grew up with being whipped with electric cords and the like, so a paddling of the feet now and then wasn't so bad.

[Vexx]

Aye... I think many of our younger viewers --- really aren't aware of how *recent* the idea of "striking the child is bad" is. I remember being instructed to find and construct the switch grandma would use to punish me for some infraction. Right branch, strip the leaves, ow.

[germanturkey]

yeah... spank the butt and the back of the thighs if something is done wrong. the fear of punishment usually meant you didn't do the same thing again.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

Wow. It seems like a loooooot of people in the past couple of pages were either not raised properly or were raised in a very, VERY relaxed manner.

So 'raised properly' means getting hit?

To me it just seems that this thread is full of too many different opinions on the matter, meaning people are never going to see eye to eye. Best to just drop it now before the mods come into play.

[orion]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

yeah... spank the butt and the back of the thighs if something is done wrong. the fear of punishment usually meant you didn't do the same thing again.

Unless you were the type that took the punishment and didn't care about it no matter much it hurt.... *whistles innocently*

At some point, the child has to make decisions. *gosh, the parent has to actually teach their children right from wrong without using violence.* I don't think that corporal punishment works that well.

I agree with Shiroth that this should prob be dropped.

[zero7090]

First to say, i am an Asian living in Asia.

Yes it is common that parent use physical punishment to educate their children in Asia. However do you know why it is not considered as child abuse ? Because most of the punishments are butt, palm or back of the thighs sparking which cause the most pain feeling yet wont harm/damage the children body. Also slapping the children is a taboo because it can damage intensively to the child head and leave a much more deeper emotional scar. I have lost my count how many the times i was spanked in the past by my father and mother but they never ever slap me even once.


btw:
grandmother or not the first thing i will do to a random relative that i havent event met who threw a rage cloth into my face is hit him/her.

in asian context, it is totally unacceptable for mother to speak openly to her boyfriend in front of her children, less running away with him while abandon her only daughter to a random relative.

p/s: Ohana is so moe, please stay strong.

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

So 'raised properly' means getting hit?

I hope that's just a bad joke, because that is NOT what I was insinuating at all and you KNOW it.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Best to just drop it now before the mods come into play.

Originally Posted by orion

I agree with Shiroth that this should prob be dropped.

No, no, no. this is an interesting discussion going on here and the clash between "Modern" and "Traditional" values can prove to be a plot point in this story so it could be relevant. Most of us here know how to behave.

[wingman32x]

Wow. That was an awesome first episode. I didn't like the summary, but I figured I would try it since PA Works was doing it. True Tears got me back into Anime after a very long hiatus, and Angel Beats was good. So obviously I highly respect this studio.

I could tell from the first 5 minutes that this was something good. The episode had a nice flow to it and the animation was awesome, especially the scenery. Ohana seems like an interesting character, and her personality jumped out quick. Really felt sorry for Minchi, but I like what they're doing with her character.

The grandma is a hardass. The slap didn't phase me since I've seen these types of characters do it before. The anime seems to be going down the "Impress the witch using your method" route. The payoff should be great if that happens.

Overall, I got a very good impression from this series. PA works strike again lol.

[mysterious]

Coming from a Vietnamese family here. Yes, corporal punishment is the norm when I grow up. Yes, the punishment makes me not do stuff that my parent judge to be "bad." And guess what? I disown my father and hate all that shit that call "tradition" with a passion. I just wish there is a law that allow me to pay back all the hit and slap that I receive as a child, now that I am an adult with enough strength to defend myself. Oh and they call those hitting "touch love", I guess now that I am to touch for them to show me their "touch love" again. Tradition my ass! And thanks for all that fear and negative influence that will remain for a long long time!

/end rant.

[vaden]

Completely not on the current topic, but was that really Chiaki Omigawa as Minko? I completely missed it the first time through — she usually has such a distinctive voice, after all, but she's doing a pretty good job in the role so far. Would not have thought she could have fit a character like that if I had known beforehand.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by vaden

Completely not on the current topic, but was that really Chiaki Omigawa as Minko? I completely missed it the first time through — she usually has such a distinctive voice, after all, but she's doing a pretty good job in the role so far. Would not have thought she could have fit a character like that if I had known beforehand.

Oh wow, the same woman that did P-ko. Never would've guessed.

Anyway I'm more than happy that Kanae Ito is voicing Ohana. She has just the most lovely melody-like voice. I like her even more than Kana Hanazawa.

[Kaoru Chujo]

This show seems to be doing pretty well on 2channel. Up to 21 threads (~21,000 posts) already. Next most among the new shows looks like Stein's;Gate at 11. But lots of shows haven't started yet.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Aye... I think many of our younger viewers --- really aren't aware of how *recent* the idea of "striking the child is bad" is. I remember being instructed to find and construct the switch grandma would use to punish me for some infraction. Right branch, strip the leaves, ow.

Huh. By that logic, I'm one of the "older viewers".

Shit, I'm old.