Senkaku/Diaoyu/Tiaoyutai/Pinnacle Islands dispute

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

IIRC, the JCG did fire warning shots at North Korean spy ships trying to enter Japanese waters.

If worse comes to worse, they can do that. Or they can fire warning shots and get the SST to board them.

If that's the case, I'm surprised the news give the impression that the JCG were passive as there was no mention of those ships turning back.

Well, I don't see why those Chinese surveillance ships should not receive the same kind of warning the North Korean spy boats had.

[Ithekro]

Nothing particular to spy on around there. If they got close enough to spy on local military channels, it would be US aircraft and ships doing to interdiction since the base there is an American base still last I check (Okinawa).

[LeoXiao]

Just when I think this thread might have some chance of dying down, the Chinese have to send their ships in to mess around.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Nothing particular to spy on around there. If they got close enough to spy on local military channels, it would be US aircraft and ships doing to interdiction since the base there is an American base still last I check (Okinawa).

The goal probably wasn't about obtaining information but more like showing presence.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

The goal probably wasn't about obtaining information but more like showing presence.

Then, it's up to Japan to show some well-represented presence of their own as well.

[Ithekro]

I was refering to why no warning shot. That would be served more for spy ships.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Like I said in the News Thread, they are hypocritical opportunist who just wants to loot just about anything for their gain in the name of being "Patriotic" while in fact they are still using Japanese exports in their home.

They can't even distinguish a Mercedes from a Mitsubishi :-

Who is the idiot now?

男子因失恋一夜折断11辆奔驰车标被刑拘

Translate: Man arrested for severing 11 Mercedes logos in one night after breaking up with girl friend.

This was a news from May, 2012.

Remind of me the new by CNN or BBC back in 2008 of Chinese policeman beating Tibetans, which turns out to be images from Nepal.

[Sumeragi]

It's Mercedes, not BMW. Furthermore, given that those were posted from Chinese websites, not sure who you're calling idiots. Frankly, I can no longer understand your line of logic, given that you keep bringing irrelevant details or use red herrings when the actual issue is there are quite a few violent acts being committed, regardless of a few possibly wrong details.

[TinyRedLeaf]

On its own, it's just sideline information. But in the larger context, it offers a telling reminder of the realpolitik at work beneath all the surface bluster.

Taiwan-Japan to exchange intel despite island row

Taipei (Sept 24, Mon): An intelligence exchange conference between Taiwan and Japan's military will go on as planned next month, despite the ongoing Diaoyutai Islands dispute, the United Evening News reported yesterday, citing an anonymous military source.

The annual meeting will take place in Japan for a period of five days, the source said.

According to the source, the intelligence offered by Japan during these exchanges is mostly insignificant and of little value. Taiwan, on the other hand, provides Japan with vital intelligence regarding the deployment of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA).

In fact, this kind of lopsided intelligence exchange has allegedly been forged between Taiwan and many nations besides Japan including India, the Philippines and the United States, all of which desire to get the kind of PLA intelligence that Taiwan has gathered for years.

THE CHINA POST

Note: The China Post is an English-language pro-Kuomintang newspaper published in Taiwan, and is committed to the view of "One China". Make of that what you will.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Note: The China Post is an English-language pro-Kuomintang newspaper published in Taiwan, and is committed to the view of "One China". Make of that what you will.

One China under the CCP or KMT?

[willx]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Translate: Man arrested for severing 11 Mercedes logos in one night after breaking up with girl friend.

This reminds me of what my friends did as delinquents in Canada at the age of 15. Just went around grabbing logos off cars and using them as keychains.

@SaintessHeart: Is there any doubt? Of course the KMT! The CCP are just a bunch of rebels, the real government of China has been in exile in Taiwan this whole time!

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Who is the idiot now?

The point remains that the mainland rioters still cannot tell a Mercedes and Mitsubishi apart. I did not make any remarks about them wrecking cars in the original post, I'm just pointing out the bare facts.

Out of curiosity, why do you have this urge to defend the rioters when it's been proven in concrete that they are using the anti-Japanese banner to trash every and anything like the mindless mob they are ?

Back to the topic now with something relevant :-

Why the Chinese Communist Party will not collapse

The thought that the CCP might turn democractic is ludicrous, but it is quite possible given time. Looks like a repeat of CCCP is in order.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

The point remains that the mainland rioters still cannot tell a Mercedes and Mitsubishi apart. I did not make any remarks about them wrecking cars in the original post, I'm just pointing out the bare facts.

Out of curiosity, why do you have this urge to defend the rioters when it's been proven in concrete that they are using the anti-Japanese banner to trash every and anything like the mindless mob they are ?

LOL, you really believe the mainland Chinese can't tell Mercedes and Mitsubishi
apart. Sorry, I guess no explanation will make you wiser.

I am not defending people who smash cars. Completely contrary to that, I think many of them are irrational idiots. However, many of them are trying to take advantage of the situation and have ulterior motives. There are many signs of that. Tattoos, failing to tell the difference between "钓" and "钩"(in other words, half literate), etc. Some are there to take small profits, some are venting their anger for the income disparity, and many are simply there to mess things up, or make it messier.

There are factions inside and outside China whose sole existence is built on anti-CPP. They are like rabid dogs (Falungong for example, ever heard of them?), they can't tell the difference of anti-CPP and anti-China either. They don't care how despicably low they are, as long as it achieve their goal.

For example, when the Chinese first conducted a space walk, they immediately spread the rumor that it was shoot under water. One of their evidence was one command during the process is "水中拉系", actually, the command was “水蒸发器”。 (They sound alike, especially if pronounced with some accents). Many were fooled. Of course, nobody should have any doubts by now, especially after the docking with the space lab earlier this year. Your pictures is one other such example. Of course the uploader knows where his images come from. Then why did he make up the story that the protesters did it? To slander the protesters, and to sow doubts in others.

There are many others who would like see such things and easily believe them. One type are Chinese (by ethnicity) who are quite insecure with their own identity. They don't want to be regarded as Chinese and eagerly tries to deny it. When given chances, they will try their best to attack the Chinese to show that they are different. They'll not let go any chance to lick up their master race as well. There are a couple of such people in this thread. One most hilarious example was one guy who tried to shift the blame of the whale hunting of the Japanese on the Chinese, saying that the Chinese love of gourmet food was the cause of the whale hunting.

I have also mentioned in this very thread that many media have a propaganda to spread biased or half truth, not to mention those who simply have scores to settle with the Chinese.

When you combine all these people together, you get a formidable force who viciously falsify, spread and digest slanders and rumors. I am merely try to show the craziness, silliness and hypocrisy behind all this. That's my reason to defend "rioters".

[Sumeragi]

Yet in this case we have CHINESE sources saying whatever. Unless you're talking about Chinese craziness, silliness and hypocrisy behind all this, I see no point as to your initial post which is trying to attack non-Chinese sources. That was why I said I couldn't follow your line of logic.

Frankly, you're going about the wrong direction, using the wrong methods, defending the wrong goal.

[Jinto]

In all fairness though. In this particular case, it was MakubeX2 using an out of context story to claim something that isn't.
Tom Bombadil seems not really pro-riot in my oppinion but a little concerned about the mudslinging in the press and how easily other people fall for it.

If we could all keep being nice to each other (even if some have to fake it - and I know it is hard to fake being nice), then the problem isn't solved but we can later look at this thread and smile (instead of some uneasy feelings)

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japan-china...233009627.html



For the part in bold, I wonder what is the current line of conduct (if not saying the rules of engagement) of the Japanese Coast Guard. In normal time for any coast guard, an intrusion shouldn't go like that without some sort of response from either ship. Even the Canadian Coast Guard gave the Spanish trawlers something to think about in 1995 when the latter violated our waters doing some illegal fishing.

I would imagine the order from the top is to do absolutely nothing outside of vrrbal communications. The priority of the Japanese govt is to diffuse the situation, not escalate it further.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

-snip-

So all in all, your point is that you objected my choice of method of emphasising an irrevocable fact that both of us can agreed on. Which is the rioters are unreasonable hypocritcs rallying under a false pretence.

Fine, I can respect your opinion and leave it at that. But I must stress that I have no shame in being an ethical Chinese. I just do not like the spineless way the mainlanders try to put their point across.

[ganbaru]

Six navires des garde-côtes taïwanais dans les eaux nippones ( 6 taiwanese coast-guards boats on japanese water)
http://www.lapresse.ca/international...x-nippones.php ( article in french)
If it's true, even Taiwan is now trying to show strenght, as they seen to have armed troup on some of the boats.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Six navires des garde-côtes taïwanais dans les eaux nippones ( 6 taiwanese coast-guards boats on japanese water)
http://www.lapresse.ca/international...x-nippones.php ( article in french)
If it's true, even Taiwan is now trying to show strenght, as they seen to have armed troup on some of the boats.

This is ridiculous. I'm still waiting Japan to show some form of strength whatsoever in the area for the sake of showing that no one should mess with what has been deemed to be Japanese territorial waters linked with those islands. Just send a DDG type (Sumeragi knows what kind of ship I'm alluding to), for heaven's sake.

edit: I'm saying that because Japan has not been very convincing so far when it comes to put the fist on the table.

[sezen_atacan]

At the end of the day, its usually the average Joe, the apolitical-mind-his-own-buisness who doesn't want part in these pointless political arguments over "interests" that will never benefit the said average Joe. Each "tension" is another sad day for Joe it seems, who must take flak and shoulder decisions and problems that where never his own.

Similar to how George W. that made bad of America's image and normal American citizens (many who may be apolitical or even detest Bush) being blamed by the world community for things through no fault of their own other than by their administration.

There are countless other examples too.

While its pretty much agreed on that the PRC govt is a bad gang of sorts. But one has to look at it from another perspective that many who oppose the PRC could not or where silenced. There was no opportunity for its own people to rebel in any kind of way.

Also everytime a tension like this shows up, it seems that the anti-PRC resistance from within are completely ignored or conveniently forgotten. And in its place a news article that paints the entire population as being the bad guys just for the sake of "simplicity" as in 1+1=2. There where news of quite a few anti-PRC activists, but they got arrested, ends up on a few newspapers but on the back end section in a small corner.

NOT all chinese support the PRC, but they are ignored as to not "complicate" things that are meant to be painted in a broad brush that is meant to be seen as "simple".


Now that begs the question. is it a crime now to mind one's own buisness to stay away from politics? Or would that in your eyes make the average Joe an irresponsible citizen?