Lucky Star - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Zero Shinohara]

...Anyone else hoping for Yoshimizu to do a Lucky Star prequel series for KyoAni to adapt?

Well, if they're looking for volunteers, here's one. But I highly doubt that it would happen, unfortunately. Unless, of course, they were interested in a pre-wed/newlywed take at "slice of life". Just from the short scenes of Soujirou and Kanata, I can bet my ass that the two of them have quite a lot of such moments. I mean, not being able to slide your engagement ring into your lover's finger would be quite a blast - in both ways. Perhaps they could release an OVA, or at least maybe a few mini-episodes along the way. But I think that's just not going to be the case.

My hope is that they'll add a fitting closing scene to the series and leave everyone happy at the end.

And well, she has amazed me in the past, although she normally criticizes anime for it's stilyzed portrayal of people, things and etc. But that particular scene always had that depressing feel, but I didn't understand why. I guess people who're really versed in art will get the meaning behind the choice of certain colors right on the spot, whereas common folk like me will just see what's shown in the surface.

[tommyKN]

this episode realy touched my heart =3
but that's not only because of the scene they showed with Kanata, it's most likely because of the background music at that moment - it was simple and beautiful composed.

I will get this song for sure, hope there is a vocal version too!

edit: i'm very relieved that Kanata has a cute and calm voice, it very fits her. *phew*

[Aranu]

Wow this was such as touching episode, I did not expect it at all from this series. This is probably my Favorite episode, with the excellent composed music, and finally being able to see Kanata and hear her voice matched what I thought it would be.

[Mugen-Hut]

Spoiler for to keep it short:

I also lost my mother when I was younger, but it was a bit different from konata. At the time I was seven years old and both me and my mother lived in a small apartment. One day coming from school I come back home and call mom. I found her sleeping on the bed, or so I thought. A couple of hours later the landlady came to the apartment, then the police, and the doctors and neighboors... and I didn't knew a thing about death, I was only seven years old.

Death can be so caprichous and ironically while I was unaware about the concept of death while my mother passed I couldn't help but feel depressed and a heartache a couple of years ago when two people close to me died. These two people, despite not being as close to me as the other family members (I am adopted, remember) they were people that I truly admired and respected, heck, as if they were royalty. And just to hear they died made me feel nothing but grief.

Why life is like this? Why death is like this? I kept asking my self only to find the same answer time and time again: life's the way it is, all you have to do is carry on, because, if you keep running away from death you aren't alive at all. In the end, I can't help but go on, hoping to reach my goal to be a mangaka and struggling my way there. There is just no other way.

Now, for a bit of a change of pace I cant help but admire and love Soujirou-san even more now that I find him more of a better person now. It just makes me want to shout it loud

I AM PROUD TO BE AN OTAKU, ARIGATO SOUJIROU-SAN

It proves that not all otakus are the root of all evil and that they are humans like all of us...

Spoiler:

Isn't that right, Jacky Wu-san?

[Zero Shinohara]

You can call me a sick man, and I'll understand perfectly. But 10 minutes ago I woke up, and in less than 15 seconds I had the BG song for Kanata's scene playing on repeat in my mind. Let's just say it was like dropping 10 floors down into reinforced cement. The oddity of this is that, yes I've been down because of anime series in the past, and in fact it happens very often. But never for the anime's own sake - It's always because that particular series drove me to think about my own life. In this case, like I've said before, it's just like Kanata had always been a person really close to me and seeing her come back was as much of a shock as if it were someone in my family.

As much as I know it's an anime, I just can't help it.

@Mugen-Hut:

Sorry for your loss. I probably can't even weigh in the loss of a parent because I haven't experienced that yet, although I've had precious people to me pass away in the past. As far as life and death goes, I guess that the fear of death isn't always for your own sake, but for others' sakes. If you take a guy like me, for example, who has no children and no 'special person'. I'm not afraid of dying because I know I'm "clean", even if I understand my family would probably never recover from it. But people with families of their own and responsibility to others might be afraid of death because of what would happen to those they leave behind more than what happens to themselves.

Now, for a bit of a change of pace I cant help but admire and love Soujirou-san even more now that I find him more of a better person now. It just makes me want to shout it loud

I AM PROUD TO BE AN OTAKU, ARIGATO SOUJIROU-SAN

It proves that not all otakus are the root of all evil and that they are humans like all of us...

Wait, you're saying you're an otaku and also stating that they're humans like the rest of us? Where's the sense in that phrase, did I miss it somewhere?

And I've always been proud of being an otaku. Watching anime taught me a lot, and I can bet you it made me a better person and there's a high chance it did save my life. ( Long story. ) I understand there're some problems within the otaku society and that we all tend to be very eccentric in many ways, but rarely "bad people". Those who don't understand out world might think otherwise, but for us in the inner circle, I can say we understand each-other fairly well.

[Ascaloth]

The drama of Kanata's life is really bringing out the drama in others' lives, for some unknown reason...

[AVPlaya]

I just watched this episode... unbelievable. The Kanata scene is really, really good. I did get emotional watching it. But why did she waited that long to "appear" in their live? She should have been around forever.

As for the lolicon question, I will write something in the defense of people like Souichirou: People like him are not really lolicon. Everyone must understand that girls who look like Kanata, Konata and Yutaka are NOT rare in Japan or rest of East Asia. You can see girls with a child-body or child-like faces quite frequently. Some of them even have the body to head ratio which makes children cute, and some of them even talk like a child (like Aya-chan) naturally. These girls will look and act like this until they are OBASAN.

Now here's the question - do they get married? Do they get boyfriends or admirers? If you deemed guys who like them as Lolicon or perverts, then are these girls forever doomed? IS THAT FAIR? I would say that men who love grown women are not necessarily LOLICON as we define them in the West. Lolicon should only restrict to be men who love young girls. There is a group of guys who really like TINY women, and they will fall in love with WOMEN like Kanata and yes, HAVE SEX WITH THEM. These guys are not lolicon because they will never touch or hurt children. Izumi Soichirou is such a man.

Why do I say that? Because he really love Konata and would never have done anything to her. If you notice, he's only attracted to GROWN WOMEN who looked young, not young girls. In this episode we saw him saying that the feeling of holding Konata is making him doki doki because it feels like holding KANATA should be telling... it's because Konata has turned 18 and is an adult in most country of the world. He loves women with a small body and large head, but he will never touch children. It is only because of men like this can girls like Kanata/Konata find love... if everyone ONLY love tall girls with breasts, then Konata will die single and along, and probably never been born in the first place. People in the West especially think these men are perverts, but they are really NOT.

I say this because I know several girls like Konata personally. There's one girl who called herself NyaNya-chan, stands 143cm tall, weights less than 80 lbs, has the body of a 6th grader (actually many 6th graders today has bigger breast than her), and talk in this unbelievably high pitch similar to Yutaka naturally. She can't even change the way she talk when she's angry, which means when she's angry everyone would laugh at her cuteness. She has these huge eyes and big head too. And she's now, what, 36? Looking and acting the exact same way. You would think it's hard for her to find boyfriends, but actually the opposite is true. Plenty of guys, one of them my good friend, love her. None of these guys are pervs or even otakus; they are just normal guys who happens to love chibi women (many Japanese guys are not exactly tall themselves). Thanks to men like these, it's possible for girls like Konata to find a love life in the future.

I can't believe I took time writing about Lolicon, but this EP moved me a lot. I guess I want to defend men like Soichirou.. they're not the pervy lolicon. They just love them chibi women. In fact I want to say that he came to love chibi girls BECAUSE of Kanata... not the otherway around.

[Psycho Power J]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

Why do I say that? Because he really love Konata and would never have done anything to her. If you notice, he's only attracted to GROWN WOMEN who looked young, not young girls. -snip-

Me thinks you forgot about him and his high-end camera during the sports festival. It's undeniable in Soichiro's case. While he's attracted to normal women, he is also a lolicon.

For the rest of your post, I agree with you. Even kiddie-looking women deserves to be loved.

[Kyuusai]

Unfortunately, I can't cookie you, AVPlaya, but I would if I could.

I think the fact that he and Konata can have such a conversation shows how close their relationship is and how well she understands her father. Likewise, the fact that he can attribute the word to himself shows something about his personality and worldview, in that he can attribute the word to himself absolutely objectively, aware of its literal meaning and ignoring the subjective connotations it can have. ...Of course, it's this personality trait that makes him so creepy to some and which encourages Konata to say that he's likely to be arrested.

Originally Posted by Psycho Power J

Me thinks you forgot about him and his high-end camera during the sports festival. It's undeniable in Soichiro's case. While he's attracted to normal women, he is also a lolicon.

Well, not all high school girls are lolis.

He just appreciates young girls. And that doesn't necessarily mean in a sexual way, either, but more in the same way that he appreciates his own daughter (I imagine that Soujirou actually has less of an issue with sexual attraction to young women than many far closer-to-normal Japanese men). What's funny about Soujirou is that his completely objective appreciation and/or understanding of certain things is entirely benign, but is easily interpreted by regular folks to be creepy or threatening.

[Psycho Power J]

While I don't think Soichiro is the malignant-type, it looks like the influence of anime and manga as well as the games he plays is being overlooked. Especially the doujins. And dating-sims. Shall we go there?

[Kyuusai]

Originally Posted by Psycho Power J

While I don't think Soichiro is the malignant-type, it looks like the influence of anime and manga as well as the games he plays is being overlooked. Especially the doujins. And dating-sims. Shall we go there?

I never said that he hadn't been corrupted by his pastimes, just that his corruption is completely peripheral to the issue at hand.

[Ascaloth]

Methinks AVPlaya's forgotten about the scene where the Hiiragi twins go to the Izumi house, and Soujirou was crying because his dream of having lunch with 3 high school girls had come true.

Nevertheless though, I do agree with AVPlaya to a certain extent; so I firmly believe that he's a lolicon through and through, but I also think that his lolicon tendencies and his love for Kanata are two different matters altogether.

And I think it's not the first time AVPlaya's brought up NyaNya-chan either, except......Sanjyuuroku-sai desu ka?! Hontouni?! (36?! Really?!)

I want a picture!!!

(Wise words from Izumi Soujirou: If the lady in question has a loli body and yet is older than the guy, you might say that the guy likes older women... )

[Psycho Power J]

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

I never said that he hadn't been corrupted by his pastimes, just that his corruption is completely peripheral to the issue at hand.

I doubt its peripheral when his interests get involved in everyday life. LOL (I just realized we don't have a :lol: smilie) But I think what makes it a non-issue is that Soichiro is suprisingly well-adjusted to reality, regardless of whether it's the actual issue or not.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Psycho Power J

I doubt its peripheral when his interests get involved in everyday life. LOL (I just realized we don't have a :lol: smilie) But I think what makes it a non-issue is that Soichiro is suprisingly well-adjusted to reality, regardless of whether it's the actual issue or not.

I doubt it's involved in everyday life, as Konata herself vouched that he separates work and play very well in that none of his literary works involve such interests.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Methinks AVPlaya's forgotten about the scene where the Hiiragi twins go to the Izumi house, and Soujirou was crying because his dream of having lunch with 3 high school girls had come true.

Yes several folks have brought it up, but I would say that he has a high school girl fetish like most of Japanese male population. Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

As for other lolicon-type actions, I have no doubt he as lolicon-fetish, meaning he gets off sexually seeing chibi women. After all, he won't be able to have sex with his own wife if he doesn't. But he's not a person with real lolita-complex, which is a man who only prefer young (In Japan, young = under 13) girls. Souichirou has never touched a young girl in real life. He has sexual fantasies about girls with young-ish feature, but he won't never act on it (aside with a grown women). I'm sure all of us has sexual fetishes we would never, ever act in real life; Japanese are just very realistic in admitting the existence of the fetish and separating them from real life.

I also think that his lolicon tendencies and his love for Kanata are two different matters altogether.

In the good old days of otaku dom, there's very little lolicon. It's rise (and the rise of the romance games in general) is really within the last 10 years or so. I doubt Souichirou is "corrupted" the same manner a young otaku would be today. Remember he and Kanata grew up together. It's likely he loved her since they were actual children themselves. It's not they meet after they're both grown ups and he went out looking for a chibi women. I say this because I know a some guys who swore they'd never date such a women, became a sort of lolicon after they've dated or married one. This one other chibi women I knew (145cm) dated a 6-2 dude"; that guy started out checking out short girls with flat chest after they broke up. I still wonder about certain "details"...

And I think it's not the first time AVPlaya's brought up NyaNya-chan either, except......Sanjyuuroku-sai desu ka?! Hontouni?! (36?! Really?!)

I want a picture!!!

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

[723]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

You are soooo right X3. And if you really want to feel like Souchiro, imagine that not only Kagamin, but also two kawaii girls such as Tsukasa and Konata are with you xD.

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

AVPlaya, I think you shouldn't have mentioned her here. She is going to be like a leyend on the forum xD. Just invite her to join the discussion xD.

[deathreape98]

this episode was HILARIOUS, 1000/10

"why would mom choose you? you're a perverted lolicon otaku"

[Zero Shinohara]

I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

I know I would!

And well, if you ask me, I never thought Soujirou to have a bad character. In fact, I've always admired him to a large extent, especially now after Episode 22. Why? Well, a number of factors, but probably the one that drives me to respect him the most is that he's a grown up, old guy who still has that young, playful and 'innocent' soul he's known for. Someone who's managed to succeed in life even if he's been through many hardships is always deserving of respect.

As for the lolicon factor, I think that it's really misinterpreted by both normal people and otaku alike. To me, in the otaku lingo, lolicon means liking >anime< girls who look like, well, girls. To that extent, I'm a lolicon. I'm a whore for Fate-chan, in love with Satoko and Rika-chama makes me go dokidoki~. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'll go to my brothers' sports events to take pictures of elementary/middle school girls in gym shorts so that I can go home at night and giggity. Do I find young girls cute? Yeah, but who doesn't? In a sexual way? Hell no.

Obviously, the term "loli" can be used in many ways, but I'm just throwing my own understanding of it out there.

Soujirou is a man and an otaku. The majority of anime series are >made< exactly for people like him, people like me and a great number of you. And we all know that one of the most "successful" attention-hooks used in anime is a cute, loli-like character who has accidental pantyshots every once in a while or who likes the hero, or who hates the hero, or who has all of these factors combined into a Runa-chan/Louise-type of character. I wouldn't find it hard for him to have been influenced by anime up to the point where his love for Kanata escalates into a liking for chibi/loli women and then into the anime-derived lolita complex that he's so "proud of". Is he clingy to Konata? Yeah, we all know that, but does he have any sexual desires for her? I would bet no, and I also bet that she knows that very well, but knowing her personality, she would pick on him for being so close to her all the time up until he snapped. But again, since Konata's and Soujirou's personality seem to add up like a piece of a puzzle, one complements the other.

Well, tell me if you didn't make sense of what I'm saying, because I think I deviated from the main point quite a few times here and there... But oh well.

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

Well, as much as I'd like to see that person, I understand why she wouldn't want to have her picture posted on an anime discussion board. Personally I don't like my own pictures roaming on the internet, so let's give her a little privacy. And as for having her join the discussion... Uhm, that would obviously add to the cultural references and factors, but I guess AVPlaya would need to come up with large sums of money to pay for his hospital bill. As for her becoming a legend.. Tsukasa voice with Konata body? Legend? THIS IS SPAR.. I mean, Animesuki.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

Yes several folks have brought it up, but I would say that he has a high school girl fetish like most of Japanese male population. Notice that the Hiiragi twins are NOT chibi women... I think most "normal" guys here would cry with joy if Kagami came to YOUR house for dinner.

Well yes, but even I would be wary of declaring my joy so openly in front of my daughter's friends.

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

As for other lolicon-type actions, I have no doubt he as lolicon-fetish, meaning he gets off sexually seeing chibi women. After all, he won't be able to have sex with his own wife if he doesn't. But he's not a person with real lolita-complex, which is a man who only prefer young (In Japan, young = under 13) girls. Souichirou has never touched a young girl in real life. He has sexual fantasies about girls with young-ish feature, but he won't never act on it (aside with a grown women). I'm sure all of us has sexual fetishes we would never, ever act in real life; Japanese are just very realistic in admitting the existence of the fetish and separating them from real life.

Funny, I always thought that "lolicon" in Japan didn't necessarily mean that the man in question likes young girls to the exlusion of all else.....Oh wait, what am I saying? Like Soujirou himself said, "I am also a lolicon".

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

MURI DA! She would absolutely torture me to death (with her chibi voice) for mentioning her in this manner.. on the INTARWEB! Pictures? I might as well just kill myself. Fear the wrath of the Chibi! She hated people mentioning her chibi features. But she also liked big guys because they "matched" better... whatever. I just like to see her sing in Karaoke; imagine Tsukasa singing in a Konata body; that's her.

Oh, keep an open mind, dude! I'm pretty sure that is what The Great Otaku Sage Izumi Soujirou meant when he said "death by moe". What's not to like?!

(Joking, of course. You know I'll never insist that you put yourself in mortal peril. )

[Anh_Minh]

I think Soujiro does like young girls... Maybe not sexually, but they make him go all "moe!". It has nothing to do with him being an otaku, he just likes loli. And he's unapologetic about it.

However, he's too much of a nice guy to hurt them. He may do some creepy things like taking pictures, and, judging by Konata's habits, probably puts them in albums to look at once in a while, but it won't go further. Well, he'll also troll for hugs from Konata and Yutaka whenever he can, too.

But I don't think one should underestimate his liking of lolis.