Singapore, Odex & fansubs

[WanderingKnight]

*edited* (stupid post).

[cyth]

Sorry if this comes off a bit crude, but why are you still whining about this issue? It's not like the majority of Singaporeans would start buying legitimate releases even if prices dropped to $2/episode. Cheap==better than expensive, free==simply better. There are (cheap) ways on how to get around your problem. I mentioned one of them in one of the first posts in this topic, others suggested software anonymizers. If you think they're not viable options for you guys, I suggest you start searching for alternatives. That's just how addicts deal with problems. Whining rarely helps, especially online.

[randomlurker123]

Originally Posted by Fruitfly

They should at least sell SVCDs because it's a better resolution. And the how you say the audio is sounds like it sounds bad lol

I seen this topic on a couple of forums as well and one person mentioned that fansubs are better than dvds because fansubs have cool text effects and karaoke. But that's only possible if you alter the original video and hard sub it. On animeondvd.com's R1 forum, when theres a mention of hard subs, theres a wave of people who post and claim they canceled their order because of it. But if Singapore people like it, then they should listen to the fans!

ermm..... odex is selling vcds ( ie hard subs) and they suck at it.

[Spark]

Well, there's always youtube ^.^ ... why not just stream it?

[WanderingKnight]

Well, there's always youtube ^.^ ... why not just stream it?

Because quality, kinda, sucks?

[kamij0]

can any america company come here to invest also ? i see no point in 1 company monopolising the anime community in SG

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Has anyone read the current news in SG?

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/st...137645,00.html

now, they are hitting on our parents...

"Parental Guidance" huh... :X

[HurricaneHige]

i dunno....but it seems like they r only banning torrents, cant u guys like....direct download? how can they track that?

[Question]

Good luck finding DDLs. The primary method is torrents. And i dont think IP anonymizers can stop the ISP from getting your info anyway.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Question

Good luck finding DDLs. The primary method is torrents. And i dont think IP anonymizers can stop the ISP from getting your info anyway.

Google Relakks. It's not an anonymizer though, it's a commercial darknet. And that _does_ stop ISPs from getting your info.

[Demongod86]

Um, why not do it off of IRC?

[nadare]

Originally Posted by Question

Good luck finding DDLs. The primary method is torrents. And i dont think IP anonymizers can stop the ISP from getting your info anyway.

DDL aren't that hard to find. Just google lolipower . As their website say "Powered By loli" . They upload anime up to the latest releases by fansubs.

[parrywrinkle]

I can understand a civil suit between a Japanese Anime Producer and the downloader violating intellectual property ownership of said producer. Downloading may also be equated to a crime in that it is actually a theft of intellectual property.

But there are questions to be answered.

1. What if I actually possess the rights to said intellectual property because I bought the material? Suppose I download some anime, they come knocking and my door and then found that I already legally possess the material to which I have downloaded but nonetheless find the fansubbed material superior in all other manners? Am I still legally liable to the Japanese Anime Producer? Furthermore in the criminal sense, how can I steal something I already own?

2. What is the extent of which AVPAS can act for those producers? Suppose the Japanese producers have no intent whatsoever to licence in Singapore, and that I have no other possible way of getting this anime save to order it from Japan and learn the Japanese language to further understand the contents of the anime. What is the economic benefit AVPAS is serving? Or are they proceeding purely on moral grounds? If indeed the entire process is purely on moral grounds, would it suffice for me to send a letter to the Japanese producer asking for permission to download said anime, a failure of response which would equate to permission granted? I am therefore no longer morally obligated not to download nor economically endangering my country, and the law therefore becomes only a statement of policy. Even so, what is the justification to such a policy?

I blame the lack of forum in Singapore to bring issues such as this into the open. The media lies largely in the hands of the government and thus even if there is a public forum, it is likely to be biased. Because intellectual property is a hot commodity, it is of vital importance to country like Singapore which has no natural resources to protect and respect intellectual property rights. The balance that has to be sought however is to protect rights that SHOULD be protected because the property can be made available or is available, and rights which fall into the area of only civil action without criminal sanctions because the property in question that is acquired is not available to be procured through means that do not violate the IP rights.

It is in my opinion that downloading is equivalent to theft and therefore morally wrong. But the problem with anime is that Opex has shit quality and there is a lack of alternative. I gladly pay top dollar that I pay for import DVDs for that level of quality, alas there is also a dearth of import DVDs for anime because of the seemingly lack of a market. Is anime therefore relegated to a luxury good in Singapore where only the rich and linguistically talented can enjoy? Or are we forced to take crap from a company that holds the cards?

[HurricaneHige]

Originally Posted by nadare

DDL aren't that hard to find. Just google lolipower . As their website say "Powered By loli" . They upload anime up to the latest releases by fansubs.

they are tons of DDL out there if u just look, granted u have to pay like 10 bucks a month for it...or somewhere along the lines of that, but if the dub company is really as bad as u guys say they are, and are willing to pay a little cash for anime, then DDL is still a viable choice IF they cant track that

[parrywrinkle]

One thing has been bugging me: how can a company and an association of companies "fine" people? Isn't a fine a criminal sanction? How does a private entity fine a citizen?

[Ending]

On a similar note, take a look at THIS article on New Scientist:

UK government warned over "Wild West" internet

Web companies, retailers and the government must do far more to protect people from the dangers of the "lawless Wild West" of the internet, according to an influential group of UK members of parliament.

In a critical report Personal Internet Security published on Friday, MPs warn that the government and industry have a "laissez-faire" approach to online crime that could eventually lead to an "economically disastrous" loss of public confidence in the net.

With computer fraud growing ever more sophisticated, people have little hope of protecting themselves, say members of the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee.

"You can't just rely on individuals to take responsibility for their own security," committee chairman Lord Broers said at the launch of the report. "They will always be outfoxed by the bad guys."

So it's not just Singapore anymore, but many more who seek to compromise the freedom of expression (which, by the way, is the core of Internet) by taking hold of the net. This way it is no longer the users who can say what they want to say, but some anonymous parlament member and his financing groups who think they know better what is right for you.

And, as usual, I'm pretty sure the standard "for your safety against criminals" will go through without a second question.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Because quality, kinda, sucks?

Even so it's free. I'm just gonna assume that people watch the anime just for enjoyment and some entertainment, not for detail of the design, if so just buy it.

[AVPlaya]

If you're Singaporean, I'm assuming you can read Chinese, right?

Just get your anime streamed from a very famous Chinese site which start with a T. Most subs there are in simplify Chinese so you guys can read it too. Everything is there. PM me if you don't know about this site.

[ultima]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

If you're Singaporean, I'm assuming you can read Chinese, right?

Just get your anime streamed from a very famous Chinese site which start with a T. Most subs there are in simplify Chinese so you guys can read it too. Everything is there. PM me if you don't know about this site.

We won't be tracked?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by parrywrinkle

One thing has been bugging me: how can a company and an association of companies "fine" people? Isn't a fine a criminal sanction? How does a private entity fine a citizen?

I haven't followed the reports for a very long while now, so I could be very wrong. As far as I understand, ODEX isn't actually slapping a legal "fine". Rather, they're threatening to sue for theft of intellectual property. The "reasonable" alternative is for you to accept their invitation to a little chat at their office, where you'd be shown the evidence of your wrong-doing and then proceed to discuss the terms of settlement.

(I don't like the implications of how they obtained such evidence any more than any other Singaporean. It's pretty shitty that the majority of Singaporeans don't know enough to demand a proper Data Protection Act like what exists in the UK.)

I'm not sure of the extent to which I got the process correct, nor of the extent to which this is a proper procedure. In any case, it'd probably be to your severe disadvantage if you were to bring the case to court. It's pretty normal in Singapore's courts for the losing party to pay for the winner's legal fees, on top of whatever penalties are applied -- so you'd potentially end up paying a lot more if you fight a legal case in the Subordinate Courts (which is where such cases would be heard I believe).

How to get around all this legal mess?
(1)
First of all, recognise the very brute fact that you are in fact doing something illegal. Don't cry bloody murder simply because the legal owners of the IP want to take action against you. If you are a true fan of the medium, think seriously about how you'd make up for all the downloading you've done. The creators and distributors of the IP aren't making anime just for the sake of your entertainment you know...

(2)
Not every recent anime has been listed on the AVPAS list. Granted, a lot are, but obviously, ODEX is run by buffoons who don't even know what their customers want, so they seem to have missed quite a few significant titles. Meaning? As far as I'm concerned, I can say that if it's not on the list, it's fair game. This rationale might work, but only to a certain extent. ODEX claims to act on the behalf of major Japanese studios and not as a licensee, so technically, they can still take action against you even if the title is not on the AVPAS list.

(3)
As many others have suggested, you don't have to download torrents to watch your favourite anime. There are other sources....

And no, I don't think ODEX can take legal action against video streaming sites that aren't hosted in Singapore....

(4)
Import. Boycott ODEX and drive them bankcrupt (hopefully). Why pay good money for VCD in the 21st century? It's a complete travesty. I do understand that part of the problem is pure economic common sense. Given a choice between a VCD that costs $10 vs a DVD that costs $70, it's not hard to see why Singaporeans still choose to buy inferior quality.

Hopefully, whichever hi-definition standard takes off over the next few years will start driving DVD prices down to more competitive levels. Only then will we probably start to see people use VCDs for what they're truly worth: frisbees or coasters.