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Old 2016-05-16, 13:17   Link #601
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
When it's a group of 30 people in the same situation, I don't find it very likely that all 30 people would do their own thing. What you'd have is some people taking the initiative and some people just following, which is exactly what happened. The one thing I've found consistent in this story is that all/most the cast usually gets a word or two about the current situation so the show has actually gone a long way in showing personal motivations given the time it has. Expecting 30 people to all do their own thing is unrealistic. Mob mentality is far more likely.
Yeah, I think you sum it up well.

There's some people taking initiative and a few competing for leadership, and the rest are mostly just going with the flow. If you randomly selected 30 people, and dropped them on a deserted island somewhere, that's pretty much what I'd expect to happen.

The good news is that there is consistency here on who the leading voices are. The leading voices are Mikage, Valkana, Koharun, and Daahara. Then there's some people who show initiative and consistently want to add their input into things, but they're otherwise fine letting someone else lead. These people are Mitsumune, Maimai, Lovepon, and Jigoku. The rest are loners or mostly casual followers that just try to muddle through as best they can.
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Old 2016-05-16, 13:43   Link #602
Gan_HOPE326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
When it's a group of 30 people in the same situation, I don't find it very likely that all 30 people would do their own thing. What you'd have is some people taking the initiative and some people just following, which is exactly what happened. The one thing I've found consistent in this story is that all/most the cast usually gets a word or two about the current situation so the show has actually gone a long way in showing personal motivations given the time it has. Expecting 30 people to all do their own thing is unrealistic. Mob mentality is far more likely.
Who exactly took any kind of initiative? Besides Mitsumune, who has MC rights, and Masaki who's obviously hiding more than she shows, everyone else mostly went with the flow on this one with only minimal deviations. It's not even close to when they at least genuinely split in two factions over whether to leave the village or stay. It was 20+ people agreeing on the absolute certainty that Masaki is a ghost and killing her will fix everything. Not even all of them had the experience of been pursued by their fear-monsters, so you'd assume at least some of them should have a cooler mind about the matter.
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Old 2016-05-16, 14:38   Link #603
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Honestly, I think there is some subtlety or nuance being missed here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Who exactly took any kind of initiative?
Daahara and Koharun did.

Daahara: As the organizer of this tour, allow me to confirm this with you all: Regardless of whether Masaki-san is a ghost or not, if we can get rid of the monsters somehow, would you like to stay?

Koharun: Daahara-san!

Daahara: Like I said, what she is doesn't matter.

Mikage (applauding): I'm impressed, Daahara. That's what I've been wanting to say.


It's not that these people are all completely certain that Masaki is a ghost. It's that they all believe that Masaki is somehow connected to the monster problem. Mikage is going with "she's a ghost" to make it sound more ominous, and to whip people up into a frenzy. Now, it might be a stretch to think that Masaki is connected to the monster problem, but given that Masaki is keeping secrets, and has been keeping to herself a lot...

Daahara, Koharun, Mikage, and Valkana are basically the leaders here, and they all seem to agree on one key thing - Masaki has information that could be useful in stopping the monsters (if she's not somehow controlling them herself), and if we put her in an uncomfortable position, maybe we can get her to share that information with us (or otherwise eliminate the monster threat).

Lovepon and Jigoku have already thrown their lot in with Mikage, so they're going along with him. Lovepon desperately wants to execute somebody, anyway.

Out of the 8 leaders/initiators I listed, that just leave Mitsumune and Maimai. Well, Mitsumune rose to the occasion, thankfully, once he knew what was really going on. Maimai likes having her input, but I get the vibe she's often unsure of herself.

The rest? Yeah, the rest are followers/loners mostly going with the flow.
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Old 2016-05-16, 15:03   Link #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
I've played it! One of my most epic matches involved me being a werewolf, purposefully selling out the OTHER werewolf when she was compromised in order to gain the villagers' trust, get elected mayor, then proceed to rig the rest of the game in my favour and win . It's the kind of game that makes you lose friends .

But see, even if it was a game of werewolves, they're totally NOT playing it right. The first thing would be to doubt ANYONE, including whoever suggested Masaki's a ghost! It's that kind of equilibrium that allows any hope of victory to the villagers. It's a game of rational investigation, of detecting lies and contradictions in the others' behaviours. Acting like a stupid thoughtless mob is the first way to lose for sure, and these guys are failing hard at it.

(It's also really fun. Do play it if you have the chance!)
I never said that they were playing it well

Quote:
Not really - you lose the game when the number of Werewolves still in play is equal or greater than the number of innocents. So in most cases, yeah, you don't want to do them a favour and thin the herd for them. Also because the villagers have special abilities that can be of help.

And this leads to another issue, which is personal initiative. Which is sorely lacking. You'd expect someone to have their own ideas about who's right and wrong or what's going on, possibly taking some personal initiative on the side. But... nada, nothing, zero, zilch. These are the reasons why we talk about these guys acting "stupid". It isn't just that they act like a scared mob, it's that they don't even act as a scared mob, it's even worse than that. And that's because obviously (purposefully or not) the mob is effectively being treated as a single character for most of the time by the writers. It's something like "now the people does X" and "now they do Y" without consideration for personal motivations to action.
In werewolf speak, most of the people here are "sheep" or "lurkers".
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Old 2016-05-16, 17:41   Link #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Not really - you lose the game when the number of Werewolves still in play is equal or greater than the number of innocents. So in most cases, yeah, you don't want to do them a favour and thin the herd for them. Also because the villagers have special abilities that can be of help.

And this leads to another issue, which is personal initiative. Which is sorely lacking. You'd expect someone to have their own ideas about who's right and wrong or what's going on, possibly taking some personal initiative on the side. But... nada, nothing, zero, zilch. These are the reasons why we talk about these guys acting "stupid". It isn't just that they act like a scared mob, it's that they don't even act as a scared mob, it's even worse than that. And that's because obviously (purposefully or not) the mob is effectively being treated as a single character for most of the time by the writers. It's something like "now the people does X" and "now they do Y" without consideration for personal motivations to action.

Of course it'd be very hard to follow properly the motivations of ~30 characters at the same time (HunterXHunter's final Chimera Ant arc comes to mind, where doing just that required an unprecendented slow down of in-story time). But that's why usually stories don't have 30 characters active at the same time, especially if they're only supposed to be relatively short as this one rather than volume-long epics like LotGH.
I wasn't talking logic, I was talking emotion. If you've got a cool head and think about things pragmatically, like you said, jumping to conclusions would most likely just decrease your numbers. But if you're scared out of your mind and just want it all to be over so you don't have to worry about being chased by the most terrible monster you can imagine, emotions may well start to play a bigger role than logic. And while logic says "stop and think", the emotions of panicked people can easily fall into "act now before it's too late". You seem to want to define these people as stupid if they're not doing what a rational person would do, but they're in a situation where few of them are able to think rationally.

Also, as for personal initiative, look around for information on mob behavior. Scared mobs actually do act like this, moving more as part of the group rather than by individual action. Once a few passionate or furious individuals get things moving in a certain direction, there's a tendency for others to either go with the flow or get too scared to speak up. And we have that. There are a few people who warily try to speak sense, but they're quickly cowed by how furious the core persecutors are and join the others who seem simply afraid of standing up to the "group consensus" now that things are getting dangerous. And sure enough, Mitsumune proves that their fear was right: you take the initiative to stop what's happening, and you become one of the enemy. Actually, I early on was expecting to have some kind of exploration of either mob behavior or mass hysteria. What I've gotten so far is very little in that area, but the witch hunt motif certainly reflects that. Here we have mob behavior that, from what I've seen, is actually fairly accurate.

On a side note, after thinking about it, I'd say Daahara is on the same level as Koharun as far as suspicious behavior goes. Just why is he so insistent on making everyone happy to be here when he by now knows something's wrong?
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Old 2016-05-16, 23:49   Link #606
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Well these people would do really well in witch trials.

Although they seem to fall into the issue that any mob of this sort has. If they were right....they'd be screwed. If you think someone can control some sort of supernatural menace then don't piss them off.

Not a good situation. Shows how darn messed up it is. When someone actually takes logical action like Mitsumune....he's the one being tackled to the ground and stopped from taking action. Not the lunatic who is prepared to stab someone to death and has obviously given up on getting any actual information from this.

Kind of curious how they'll be able to diffuse this situation.
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Old 2016-05-20, 21:33   Link #607
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Episode 8:

Lol, Hyouketsu no Judgeness is back...and I think he's even more delusional than before. Hopefully we'll learn what really happened to him these past few episodes when he was off screen.

Bus driver makes his return as well...
Idk how I feel about Masaki's story although it may seem to true. There are others from the group that believes her while others like Lovepon (lol, not even a bit surprised) who sees it as nothing more than a made-up story.
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Old 2016-05-20, 21:42   Link #608
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Okay, now I'm convinced we won't get any answers until the last one or two episodes.

Either this will end real good, or we will all be really taken for a ride.

Mind-blowing scene in this episode (org from reddit):

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Continuing his tradition since Shirobako.

Last edited by Peanutbutter; 2016-05-20 at 22:19.
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Old 2016-05-20, 21:55   Link #609
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Who knew that convincing people that you aren't a demonic ghost would be such a challenge .

Though I think there is more to Masaki's story than she is willing to give away....doubt she's the mastermind of evil or anything.

If this show doesn't end with something terrible happening to Lovepon...it'll be such a waste.
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Old 2016-05-20, 22:29   Link #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Who knew that convincing people that you aren't a demonic ghost would be such a challenge .

Though I think there is more to Masaki's story than she is willing to give away....doubt she's the mastermind of evil or anything.

If this show doesn't end with something terrible happening to Lovepon...it'll be such a waste.
And Mikage.

At least Lovepon is just that nuts but Mikage...yeah...
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Old 2016-05-20, 22:51   Link #611
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JYOUREIDESUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
Phew, that will get me through the week. Looking forward to Lovepon screaming next week too
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Old 2016-05-20, 23:30   Link #612
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Judgeness is back. He's apparently even more crazy than ever.

I think there's more to Masaki's story than she's telling everyone. I highly doubt she is some villainous manipulator though. She has her hands full already trying to convince everyone that she's not some evil ghost.
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Old 2016-05-20, 23:50   Link #613
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Well that sort of confirms that there are indeed people who are not strictly affected by the corporeal manifestations of this insane trainwreck. The fact that Mitsumune got smacked around by his penguin-turned dead brother means that it can actually try to kill you.

So like Silent Hill, you either escape by facing your guilt/fears, die, or get trapped in there forever.
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Old 2016-05-21, 00:04   Link #614
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I believe Masaki does know more to this village, she probably did her own research but because she cant see nor hear any "ghosts" like the others she cant really explain what going on
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Old 2016-05-21, 04:11   Link #615
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Episode 8:
Surprised that Masaki isn't the first timer visiting Nanakimura. On the other hand, it seems that she can't see any monsters due to not having emotional scars unless Masaki kept it hidden.

Meanwhile, Hyoketsu no Judgeness being alive was the most surprising thing ever happened on this week's episode!
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Old 2016-05-21, 04:37   Link #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
Mind-blowing scene in this episode (org from reddit):

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Continuing his tradition since Shirobako.
Sorry but what's so mind-blowing about this picture?
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Old 2016-05-21, 05:34   Link #617
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Sorry but what's so mind-blowing about this picture?
Spoiler for Hint:
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Old 2016-05-21, 06:14   Link #618
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Huh, the conversation about Masaki's reveal went surprisingly well. I thought they would have derailed the conversation at least twice. And it actually makes sense for them to still distrust her vague story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Who knew that convincing people that you aren't a demonic ghost would be such a challenge .

Though I think there is more to Masaki's story than she is willing to give away....doubt she's the mastermind of evil or anything.

If this show doesn't end with something terrible happening to Lovepon...it'll be such a waste.
No way, Lovepon should live happily ever after.
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Old 2016-05-21, 06:16   Link #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
Spoiler for Hint:
Spoiler for Answer:
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Old 2016-05-21, 07:26   Link #620
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Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
Spoiler for Answer:
OK, even if that was a slip they'd better do something with it. That's just too big to try to brush under the rug.

BTW, wasn't there something like that in Silent Hill as well, with people sometimes being sort of separated as if they were in different versions of the town? I don't know since I never played it, that's just how it sounded from the wiki.
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