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Old 2017-02-26, 16:53   Link #81
orion
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
Well, that was rather... unsettling.
That's one way to put it. I was eating while watching this episode.

My meal almost became a second viewer of the episode.
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Old 2017-02-28, 14:41   Link #82
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Old 2017-03-02, 03:24   Link #83
DragoonKain3
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You know you're addicted to Chaos;Child if you can't sleep until CR finished their subs. Dammit CR, why 1am in the morning? I have to sleep for work lol.



Now that Kurusu was revealed to be actually Senri (not that there was any doubt in my mind), I just can't help but gush at Takuru pretty much being her ray of light, both as Senri and Kurusu. Which makes sense considering how much Nono has always doted on Takuru.

The most interesting part of this episode was that Itou said there were TWO of them that mind controlled him in the club room. That I did NOT expect, as I thought this was just one culprit.

Serika has always been the most 'obvious' suspect, so obvious that I really thought she was a red herring to throw us off the trail. But I guess after her being the 'informant' of the murders, having stuff being unlocked at the most opportune times, Taku being attacked on the way to Nono when Serika told him to go meet her, pretty much singlehandedly putting Takuru into delusion mode during the cafe, and of course can't forget about all those times with that stupid frog (which I'm pretty sure is what Kurusu/Takuru heard in the video), the evidence was just too much for her NOT to be part of the murders.

So the motive? Serika wants revenge on Kurusu for taking her Taku away (notice how Itou could have killed Taku with a slash to the face then a stab at the back, but fail to do any meaningful damage). Yeah, childhood friend catfight next episode, can't wait! XD

Now the other culprit, I wonder if blue-haired girl is on it too? I wanna say no because she's just a background character, but Itou being MC'd in the club room does raise suspicions. Like I don't think anything was EVER revealed for or about her, so I don't think they'd make her as the other culprit with so little info about her. Then again Chaos;Head villain was pretty much out of left field at the end, so I can't truly rule her out.

Of course the other suspect who has a higher chance of being the culprit is the vice-prez. If Itou's 'confession' last episode was true, then that guy is the only other person with a connection to Kurusu, and I talked in length about how the picture is a big clue. Now the only thing I'm not sure of is if vice-prez actually knows Kurusu is really Senri, as I can't make up my mind if vice-prez was always in love with past!Kurusu, or fell in love at first sight with Senri.

After much though, I think the former is more likely, since Senri and the boy weren't shown to be particularly close. Also, just as Nono knows Itou couldn't have known certain things about Senri, I bet vice-prez knows things about past!Nono that the current Nono couldn't have known about. He would also link that Senri was a shy introverted person, which was how Nono acted back when she first arrived at the orphanage (as described by her adopted father). So he would put two and two together, in that current Nono doesn't act like her normal self, nor that she remembers anything, and deduce that somehow the new Nono is Senri in disguise.

That said, I do think it would be a better story if vice-prez really did fall in love at first sight with Senri, as it puts him in an ironic situation where he's getting revenge on the very person who he is trying to avenge. Now why would he want to blame Kurusu for Senri's death, I don't know, but the irony is just so much more delicious. XD


All in all, I find Chaos;Child REALLY intriguing, not only with the murder mystery so far (which they really did well laying down the clues), but the fact that this seems to be more about Kurusu than even Takuru himself. I'm sure Takuru's past with his amnesiac period is bound to have more importance in the future, but so far, everything has happened around Kurusu/Senri and Takuru was just caught in the cross-fire.
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Old 2017-03-02, 06:02   Link #84
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@dragoon I'm surprised that you got so many things right on point and this was many episodes ago. Wow. This just makes me feel that I need a better eye when it comes to mysteries. Though I guess genre conventions would have you believe that you usually meet the murderer in the first 1 or two episodes. Didn't think of the body swapping thing either.
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Old 2017-03-02, 10:43   Link #85
DragoonKain3
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Honestly? It's because of shipping. Finding out who's going to get together with whom in regular romance stories is actually all not that different from finding out the real identity of the killer in murder mysteries.

It's just particularly effective in anime because there is a lot less screentime, so IF the director/scriptwriter NEEDS or WANTS to put foreshadowing (a very big if since a lot of anime don't particularly care about it or the source didn't even think about it), it's very difficult to hide it amongst the 'noise' and indeed they might not have the time to misdirect people. Of course, I admit, I did end up playing myself with Serika being one of the culprits (thinking she was just a red herring), but I do have a tendency to overthink things. XD

I gotta admit it though, the way they laid out the foreshadowing was actually pretty darn good. Since I got up I've been reading stuff about how the anime butchered the 'reveal' (I dunno which one since there were several this ep), but I either knew about the reveal, or was very suspicious but dismissed it as a red herring. Which meant the animators did their job right. In all honesty I think it's just another case of 'wahhh the adaptation didn't follow the source to a tee wahhh', but the anime itself was very logical about how it went through things IMO.

My only complaint though is how the heck Itou survived last episode. Like Jesus Christ, if someone was bleeding that much from the eyes and his brain was hemorrhaging from all the mind control, that he would end up dead like all the other murder victims. Seems to me he was relegated as a plot device just to give info about the killers, but I dunno if that is particularly the anime's fault or it was in the source itself.

Unless of course Itou was just pretending to be a victim, and was really the guy in the picture all along... eh, I might be overthinking things again, since it's pretty obvious that vice-prez has the same hairstyle as the guy in the pic, so I'll stop for now. (only in anime we can identify people's past selves by comparing it to their current hairstyle/colour )

In any case, it's pretty fun going from week to week scouring for clues. Way back in eps 3 this was my third favourite series behind Masamune and Scum's Wish, but now I dunno. I just can't seem to stop writing about this, nor can I help myself watching the same episode three times over just to look for clues. I can see why people aren't into this (particularly those who already am familiar with the source), but I myself am very much enthralled and spend more time about this series, week in and week out.
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Old 2017-03-02, 11:36   Link #86
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tbh I really hope Seirika's motive is better than 'Notice me Sempai' or 'Yuki yuki yuki y
uki yuki yuki'
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Old 2017-03-02, 12:03   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In all honesty I think it's just another case of 'wahhh the adaptation didn't follow the source to a tee wahhh', but the anime itself was very logical about how it went through things IMO.
Nah the problem is that original Chaos;Child is longer than Steins;Gate and managed to get lesser episodes in anime which ruined much of characterisation that is quite important in the game. Oh and Nono/Senri had her own route with her own story but they just pulled a reveal from here and put it in the common route plot.
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Old 2017-03-02, 15:27   Link #88
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Wait what? Nono wasn't real and she was dead all the time!?

Man this series is really filled with crazy stuff, so now we know that Nono really died in the earthquake and the one that took her place was Senri, who can transform into another person, she fooled everyone. Now another detail is how what trigger these effects on people isn't the images, in fact, what it does that is the sound.

That last part with Takuru calling Senri, this smell like a death flag.
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Old 2017-03-02, 15:47   Link #89
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Originally Posted by AB079 View Post
Wait what? Nono wasn't real and she was dead all the time!?
That depends on what you mean by "real."

The person who was born as Nono has been dead all this time, yes. The person who was born as Senri took on Nono's appearance and identity. For all practical purposes, she became Nono. It's not a matter of "real Nono" vs. "fake Nono." If the original Nono had lived, there's no guarantee she would have turned out anything like the version we've seen. The Nono you've seen is the only Nono there's been. Just because she wasn't born that way, it doesn't mean she's not the "real" Nono now.
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Old 2017-03-02, 15:53   Link #90
AB079
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That depends on what you mean by "real."

The person who was born as Nono has been dead all this time, yes. The person who was born as Senri took on Nono's appearance and identity. For all practical purposes, she became Nono. It's not a matter of "real Nono" vs. "fake Nono." If the original Nono had lived, there's no guarantee she would have turned out anything like the version we've seen. The Nono you've seen is the only Nono there's been. Just because she wasn't born that way, it doesn't mean she's not the "real" Nono now.
But in this case Nono died when she was a child and Senri took over her place, acting in some way like her but keeping her own personality which is kind of similar to Nono's.

Can we consider Senri being the real person all the time or is just that Senri and Nono's personalities are mixed at this point? because we can tell the difference between those 2.
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Old 2017-03-02, 16:23   Link #91
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Originally Posted by AB079 View Post
Can we consider Senri being the real person all the time or is just that Senri and Nono's personalities are mixed at this point? because we can tell the difference between those 2.
When they brought back The Twilight Zone in the 80s, there was an episode where an Elvis impersonator gets sent back in time and meets the real Elvis. One thing and another happens, and the real Elvis ends up getting killed. The Elvis impersonator then has to take over and live the life he remembers Elvis having through history.

In a similar (though not identical) vein, the person we've identified as Nono isn't necessarily the same person that the one born as Nono would have grown up to be. She's Senri living the life she imagines Nono would have lived. Even if she had taken on the original Nono's personality as well as her appearance, it was a child's personality. The original Nono had never been a teenager at the time she died, and had never lived the experiences Senri has lived since then, so there's no way Senri could be living the same life that the original Nono would have lived.

I'm not sure what's going on when we see grown-up Senri on the screen. Does that mean she has the ability to switch her appearance back and forth, or is it just a kind of visual shorthand to her frame of mind?
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Old 2017-03-02, 16:25   Link #92
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In all honesty I think it's just another case of 'wahhh the adaptation didn't follow the source to a tee wahhh', but the anime itself was very logical about how it went through things IMO..
As Iby said, the VN this is based on is even longer than Steins;Gate, so it's inevitable that characterization and plot points would be cut. In this case, as nice as the reveal was, it also cut out Senri's character arc and some development for Takuru. We probably should judge the anime to see if it can stand on its own, but I can't exactly blame upset VN fans.
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Old 2017-03-02, 17:07   Link #93
AB079
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
When they brought back The Twilight Zone in the 80s, there was an episode where an Elvis impersonator gets sent back in time and meets the real Elvis. One thing and another happens, and the real Elvis ends up getting killed. The Elvis impersonator then has to take over and live the life he remembers Elvis having through history.

In a similar (though not identical) vein, the person we've identified as Nono isn't necessarily the same person that the one born as Nono would have grown up to be. She's Senri living the life she imagines Nono would have lived. Even if she had taken on the original Nono's personality as well as her appearance, it was a child's personality. The original Nono had never been a teenager at the time she died, and had never lived the experiences Senri has lived since then, so there's no way Senri could be living the same life that the original Nono would have lived.

I'm not sure what's going on when we see grown-up Senri on the screen. Does that mean she has the ability to switch her appearance back and forth, or is it just a kind of visual shorthand to her frame of mind?
Really interesting way to approach to what happens with Nono and Senri, I agree with you on this.

Basically we can say the girl called Nono we met in this series isn't really her, just an idealization or an image of Nono inside Senri's mind, as you said up to this point we will never know who is Nono since she never lived beyond her childhood.

Now about the feelings of Senri towards Takuru, thanks to this episode we know that the one who loves him is Senri, but Takuru kind of like -- can't say love because he never looked into his own feelings -- this image of Nono. Reminds me what happened with the ending of Rosario + Vampire.
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Old 2017-03-03, 09:53   Link #94
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It's hard to say Takuru like the image of Nono or something, because when we like someone usually it's actually the image of that person we have in mind, and then we grown to know that person more and see that do we keep liking. So if Takuru can accept Senri after she revealed more of herself, it won't be a problem. Well, theoratically speaking.

While Senri have been living as the image of Nono, essentially it's a part of her living around everyone, and a part that she wanted to become, but putting the part of herself she want go neglet behind. She have grown to love this living and the people around, without falling into the stress of people just liked her false image, so it can be said that affirming that image does have affirming effect of herself as well.

While I don't think the Nono/Senri identity issue will be a problem with Takuru, it might be a problem with other people, especially for those who have known Nono since before she died.
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Old 2017-03-03, 15:25   Link #95
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While I don't think the Nono/Senri identity issue will be a problem with Takuru, it might be a problem with other people, especially for those who have known Nono since before she died.
The only person that seems to have known Nono before she died is Kawahara though, so I don't it's going to be that much of a problem.
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Old 2017-03-05, 08:11   Link #96
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@dragoon I'm surprised that you got so many things right on point and this was many episodes ago. Wow. This just makes me feel that I need a better eye when it comes to mysteries. Though I guess genre conventions would have you believe that you usually meet the murderer in the first 1 or two episodes. Didn't think of the body swapping thing either.
I concur. I honestly didn't see a lot of that coming despite my suspicions that Nono was still hiding something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In all honesty I think it's just another case of 'wahhh the adaptation didn't follow the source to a tee wahhh', but the anime itself was very logical about how it went through things IMO.
Personally I tend be much more lenient towards adaptations of VN, because let's face it: they are pain the ass to do even under the best conditions series F/SN: UBW adaptation. Most VN's have non linear storytelling, meaning that they designed with intention of the multiple play-throughs in mind to witness all the scattered plot point to understand the narrative as whole. This doesn't mix well time constricted visual mediums like TV unless your gonna dedicate multiple seasons to each individual route which isn't feasible unless your disgustingly popular like the Fate series. Even some cases when do have 2 cours the staff still going to be forced to either choose a route to focus or combine them all. Either path is gonna lead to something getting shafted especially if you go with the former case assuming the samething occur in the source like it did in UBW (*cough*Sakura*cough*).

There really is no easy or striaghtfoward way to do this sadly, so it's usually best for VN adaptations to do their own thing while taking and incompatible a bit of everything in each route in a reasonable manner. It certainly not always excited elegantly, but an adaptation's job is to also give as much resolution to show as possible. Now I haven't played the game so maybe the routes are more sequential than parallel thus 2 cours might have been a better fit, but as anime only viewer I am enjoying the show none the less. So it's working for me so far.

Last edited by Applehell; 2017-03-05 at 09:00.
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Old 2017-03-08, 13:49   Link #97
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Okay so Serika is anothe one of the people with powers but at the same time there is something that isn't working pretty well with her mind, did Senri noticed that ?

Thank god Senri is alive, after knowing Nono isn't a real person and it was Senri all the time, a second loss would be too much. Takuru on the other hand is controlling his power pretty well I must say, despite having issues with it. Those flashbacks... there is something tricky inside those memories, something really bad.

Based on the information of this episode, Serika's "friend" was created by Takuru and that happened before the earthquake so Takuru awakened even before that event right?
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Old 2017-03-08, 18:16   Link #98
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Okay so Serika is anothe one of the people with powers but at the same time there is something that isn't working pretty well with her mind, did Senri noticed that ?

Thank god Senri is alive, after knowing Nono isn't a real person and it was Senri all the time, a second loss would be too much. Takuru on the other hand is controlling his power pretty well I must say, despite having issues with it. Those flashbacks... there is something tricky inside those memories, something really bad.

Based on the information of this episode, Serika's "friend" was created by Takuru and that happened before the earthquake so Takuru awakened even before that event right?
No from what I understood Serika never existed in the first place, but is a delusion of the MC, much like the MC of the prequel being a delusion of the actually existing Takumi.
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Old 2017-03-09, 01:39   Link #99
DragoonKain3
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So if Takuru and Serika have sex, does it count as masturbation?

Seriously speaking, it all makes sense now. I've always wondered what Serika's role in the plot and why all the past flashbacks are about Nono, and none are explained about Serika's past (really suspicious since childhood friend stories tend to reminiscence about the past)... it's because she didn't have a past at all. I was also wondering who was the 'delusion self' (thought it was burned girl being the alternate self of Senri) of this series, and now it's revealed to be Serika being the delusion of Takuru. So now being Takuru's "yes man" also makes sense, and that the murders started to happen after Takuru moved out of his orphanage.

Serika being the culprit is interesting because of the implication. Maybe deep down Takuru actually hates his family? Well at least Yui, he hated her so much she got chopped up like that. Nono's plot armour too stronk however. So however Takuru feels about his family, at the very least he doesn't hate Nono that much to kill her.

What does NOT make sense is how Serika got hurt. She didn't take a gash that big with her duel with Nono, nor did Takuru even connect with his di-sword. Did she get into a fight with her collaborator, or is Takuru becoming aware of who Serika is and she's now self-destructing because he's starting to hate her? It's interesting they left out the scene how she got hurt, and it's got to be on purpose. (Speculation but they didn't want to reveal Serika's collaborator yet)

It's funny too that the news reports blame Takuru as the 'person of interest', and coincidentally it's actually true that he's the mastermind, in a way. Serika's collaborator either knows she really is an extension of Takuru, or his power is making rumors into fact (It's weird too that the rumors linking Senri to Aoba dorm were ALSO true, in a way). Putting the fact that Serika got hurt, maybe Serika and her collaborator really did get into a fight while Takuru was sleeping for the day, and now that they're no longer allies they have turned on each other.

As to why they're no longer allies? Serika couldn't finish Nono off and because of that, Collaborator started attacking Takuru via media/rumors (I bet it has something to do with his power). Either that or Collaborator started attacking Takuru because he was a target along with Nono after all, and Serika being Takuru as well, can't just stand by. Whatever the reason may be, they fought and that's the reason why Serika got hurt.

Now what I do wonder is if doctor dad's disappearance has to do with anything, as it was also in the news (which seems to be foreshadowing device now, so can't ignore it despite how farfetched). It's no coincidence that Nono and Takuru are Giglomaniacs, and assuming the same is true for Yui and the otouto, him working at the old hospital raises the question if this was a long con plan of his with psychics battling each other. I said it before, but man, it would be real messed up if he had ANY hand in this.
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Old 2017-03-09, 10:49   Link #100
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That wound of Serika doesn't seem to be caused by battle. Senri never caused her harm, and she mentioned "Just resisting the intervention of the ability, then this", so it is most likely some sort of rule by certain ability caused this wound.

That wound seems to be same as that of Senri, so by "resisting" it means hurting Senri/Nono is against the rule. It could be that Takuru doesn't really want Senri/Nono no harm, or it could be a rule set by the ability of the other culprit that she cannot hurt Senri/Nono. Or, it could be both, but that would mean the other culprit is Takuru himself in another personality. Well, it's quite a leap to suspect Takuru himself, so it seems unlikely, but a possiblity that cannot be completely negleted.

There are hint on the existence of another culprit. Serika's ability seems to be peeking into other's mind, and that was the reason why her D-Sword allowed her thoughts to be peeked by Senri. So there is reason to suspect that mind twisting is done by another person. Serika also mentioned killing Yui was to "add excitement to the game", which means there's a game to be excited. If Takuru don't have a game in mind, then there would be someone else who provided this game idea for Serika to provide excitement to Takuru. Of course, in meta terms they literally have a game

Also, Takuru's action before chasing after Senri is very suspicous, for he seems to know that Serika is absent, and searched her computer before the police. And the old man's reaction to the door unlocked could be really thinking he's too drunk, or could be Takuru's ability. He also questioned himself rather than anything else when he see Senri lying on the ground. There's something weird going on with his mind.
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