The General Discussion of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Vexx]

I guess he decided he didn't want the universe he was used to ... to be destroyed?

Haruhi makes the world more *interesting* even if it is annoying or less relaxing.

[gaspah]

im pretty sure that's emotional blackmail.... haruhi the extortionist extraordinaire strikes again!!! muahahhahahahha

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by gaspah

im pretty sure that's emotional blackmail.... haruhi the extortionist extraordinaire strikes again!!! muahahhahahahha

On who's end? Kyon's or Haruhi's? And what is your proof??

[gaspah]

haruhi's end.... kiss me or the world ends.... c'mon

[Vexx]

Um... you're not getting it I guess. Haruhi has no idea she actually is able to manipulate reality. She subconsciously likes Kyon but really has no idea why. In fact in the "new world" of the kiss episode she thinks she's having some kind of weird dream and really doesn't understand completely why Kyon is in it.

Kyon has been attracted to her (or at least fascinated by her) since ep 1 though he's grouchy enough not to admit it.

[gaspah]

nah nah... i've been out with plenty of girls and they all act like they dont know, but they all really do know... .. haruhi is just the same... another victim of self-induced denial!! XD lol

i mean i went out with one girl and a dimensional rift opened up... she claimed to know nothing about it... but i was sure she did... and in the end i was right... she just didnt want to say anything cas she was embarrassed....

[Vexx]

Um... okay At least we can both agree that Yuki rocks

[gaspah]

is naguto her family name?? and yuki her first er second er whatever name.. i never realised that... i thought her name was naguto... oh well.. yes.. she rocks... i want to go against her at a lan party XD

[Klashikari]

frist name : yuki. last name : nagato.
note that japanese use the last name first, then the the first name. (so, Nagato Yuki. not Yuki Nagato)
also, the culture is more strict on politeness : people use other last name (as mark of respect, or politeness), until they know each other very well, or one's "superior" in some situation, like a sensei/senpai toward a student/kohai (can be really rude without any "san", "chan", "kun", etc)
that's why kyon call everyone else in SOS by their last name.

anyway, i'm wondering how mikuru and yuki could say what kyon had to do. (the whole sleeping beauty was a bit... a weird analogy in their context)
i interpreted it as "if haruhi is kissed, she would feel that it's not real (this can't be the real kyon, in her mind) and would immediately think it's a dream and wake up" or something like that.
frankly, i didn't expected a bond as deep as this (it was obvious kyon is admiring haruhi, and haruhi was attracted by kyon, but well... not really a standard romance)

[dKiWi]

Kyon does NOT like Haruhi. We have alot to thank Kyon for: His courage and quick wits, otherwise BOOM, no more world. Its more like he found the solution to the puzzle as compared to being sexually motivated to such an action.

Remember Kyon said "Freud will have a field day with this!". He is refering to the father of psychoanalysis. He does not in anyway enjoy that kiss.

I can't say the same for Haruhi tho. I do believe she does like Kyon quite abit, but it is more or less subconscious. She is a demi-god and I can't imagine her commiting to a mere human being. Its not as obvious that Haruhi harbours feelings for Kyon in the anime as compared to the light novel. I duno whether its KyoAni's failure or wad, but I can pick up Haruhi's emotional cues much better in the novel.

Anyway I don't think any sane guy would like Haruhi. Its very obvious that Kyon would have easily committed to Mikkurru, or even Yuki. Can't say the same for Haruhi. In the novels, Kyon mentally insults Haruhi ALOT more than the anime, and its a good thing KyoAni left all those monologues out. They made me laugh the most tho XD They can be more insulting than his "That looks like a drunken tapeworm."

FYI: Chinese also use their last name first. Or rather, we call it our surname or family name. For my country's infamous dicta.. I mean democrat has the name Lee Kuan Yew, not Kuan Yew Lee. Man the later sounds damn weird. Lee is his family name, and Kuan Yew is his "first name" as Americans call it. We juz treat it as our main name or whatever.

[gaspah]

wow, the whole honorifics explaination you see since i thought they were all sos brigade members and classmates/friends as such, i thought they were already on more friendly terms... especially with all the time lapse/jump in the series (havent read the original so cant comment on that).. but i suppose it wasnt until later on in the series that mikuru said to kyon that he could call her mikuru-chan. i guess it makes it hard for someone not born in (or at least lived in) japan to know when/where boundaries of politeness stand, i mean i'm used to naruto where his team has barely been together 10 minutes and already all refer to each other by their given name with chan/kun.

I never interpreted it as 'if kyon kissed haruhi she would think its a dream'... i thought it was like she liked kyon and if keeping this mundane world made him happy then so be it...

I never expected it either seeing as he eludes to liking miruku and yuki but just complained about haruhi... oh wait i feel really dumb now..... really really dumb.. I mean thats how you can tell if someone likes someone (especially when they're young)... ok i shoosh now

[Klashikari]

err... i didn't say that kyon loves her
but you sure can see that he was kinda admiratting her, because she was able to keep some child dreams (remember that he was dreaming about aliens etc, but he was utterly disappointed, and gets also bored with life). but again, it would be like haruhi's love : subconscious and not really accepted for their consciousness.

the kiss was indeed an emergency, nothing really romantic at all (from kyon POV, of course)

but since i didn't read the novel yet, i can't say anymore point about kyon if he loves her or not. (probably not, and i agree that he would be almost impossible for any standard and sane guy to love her. especially with mikuru and yuki around)

IMO, haruhi is still very important to kyon, but not necessarily as a lover or such. (kyon's brainstorming with "who is she to you ?" at the episode 14 means a lot. again, i'm sure his sentence about freud was only a pure denial)

[gaspah]

Originally Posted by dKiWi

Anyway I don't think any sane guy would like Haruhi.

yeah love thats a concept completely based in sanity...

in any case this raises too many questions in my head and i must ponder until my brain stops whirring...

[dKiWi]

haha yea, SHnY the novel is the work of a genius, and KyoAni has escalated that work to the highest artform. Its actually alot of physics and philosophy even tho it isnt obvious.

Like consider the philosophical question: "How do we know the world we live in is juz the dream of a huge brain stuck in a tube of green fluid?"

Of course a normal person wud dismiss this as completely absurd and not worth our time, coz it ISNT worth our time. But when we bring in a demi-god like Suzumiya and explore Her antics, it allows us to better reflect on our current world.

[gaspah]

that question was already raised by the matrix. but the sleeping god concept absolutely intrigued me, almost as much as miruku the combat waitress from the future wearing a bunny costume selling 1/2 price cabbage (when i give people that explaination of the show they go 'ohhh...... right'). i wish i could get more of my friends to sit through anime let alone subtitles...

but what do you mean by there's a lot of physics in it? all the physics are based on fantasy yeah?

[Deathkillz]

you know if haruhi wills it im sure she can change reality to make kyon like her

[Vexx]

There's an ontology thread in this forum that discusses the theoretical physics that Suzumiya Haruhi is based on. It *is* a science fiction show, but a lot of the concepts tossed around come from quantum mechanics, cosmology, and other branches of physics.

In other news, apparently dKiWi defines "normal person" differently than I do

[dKiWi]

oh my.. i think u brought up an interesting point. I dont think its possible for Haruhi to make Kyon like her... I mean she can manipulate the physical world, but not emotions.

Or maybe she can, but I don't think she'll get any satisfaction out of it.

I like to think that when Haruhi changes the physical world, she subconsciously bends the laws of physics. So since physics does not govern human behaviour, I doubt she can do such a thing.

She can choose to bend the laws slowly, which benefits us and can help us evolve into espers or what not.. Or she can be extreme and completely change a couple of key equations, then we'll have blue giants everywhere.

There is evidence that Her desires CAN manifest themselves in the physical world, but have no effect on humans in general. For example in episode 9, Kyon noted the weatherman said there was 10% chance of rain today, but it did rain. I believe it was Haruhi's desire to talk to him in the rain that caused it.

[gaspah]

i watched the last 2 episodes again.... and i reckon the whole reason behind haruhi bringing kyon back to the real world after being kissed is that he said the world is developing in an interesting manner or something to that effect. So haruhi sees more potential in adventure by staying in this world and not trying to imagine something that may or may not be more interesting...

[AK-kun]

Originally Posted by dKiWi

For my country's infamous dicta.. I mean democrat has the name Lee Kuan Yew, not Kuan Yew Lee.

Really? I just call him Harry .