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Old 2013-11-23, 09:48   Link #2681
Subayai
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Congrats to Madoka on winning the Tournament.

With one semifinal spot and one overall victory, Madoka becomes the character with the best track record in the whole history of J-Saimoe.

Also notice that she wouldn't have won if it weren't for the introduction of repechage this year.
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Old 2013-11-23, 09:57   Link #2682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaKaBaKaOtaKu View Post
Simple fact that Madoka could have been eliminated in 2011 in round 2 was a very reaching thing you know.
No, it wasn't a "very reaching thing". It's a simple fact. Note how I'm far from the only one focusing on this fact, which shows how important it is.


Quote:
Likely but it's doubtful that all of those voters were Nanoha voters. Likely that they only compose like 30% of Homura's votes
Where do you get this 30% figure? Nanoha had a lot of votes in her first round match against Homura.


Quote:
Yep, I never denied that she was very fortunate for being given a second chance. Not as controversial when there's no hater to spam a thread
Madoka-Kuroneko this year was much more controversial than Madoka-Mami was in 2011. Kuroneko was ahead of Madoka during the final hour of the match, IIRC. Then she had a bunch of votes taken away from her in a purging. That's much more controversial than a thread-spamming in the last few minutes of a match.


Quote:
I've always said that Mami's disadvantage was she was a former champion ,so I agree with that possibility. But given how much Sayaka gained in that match, anti-voters were at play.
No, not necessarily. There may well have been no significant anti-voting whatsoever going on in Sayaka vs. Mami.


Quote:
It's a possibility that a number of Kuroneko voters are also likely to be Saki supporters, anti-PMMM voters and etc... I never downplayed Kuroneko ,what are you saying again lol.
Please stop trying to deny your own words from only two or three pages back.


This is what you wrote here:

Nope, it's not a wild speculation since we're very well aware that the non-Madoka voters are still alive and that was proven by the Kuroneko-Madoka match.

------------------------------------------

That's what you wrote. Your argument here is that the Kuroneko-Madoka match proves the existence of anti-Madoka voters. And my counterargument is that no, Kuroneko is simply legit strong herself. She has her own supporters, and didn't need to be boosted by anti-voters.


Quote:
Clearly you did not pay attention.
No, I did pay attention. I just think you're blowing this thread-spamming bit out of proportion.


Quote:
In my observation of Madoka's performance she was poised to win without tactical voting that's apparent to me.
There's a difference between merely calling a character a favorite to win, and saying she's "the natural way to go". Perhaps you weren't being arrogant, and it was just questionable word choice. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.


Quote:
An objective individual could question results if you ask me
If you have unusual occurrences during the match, like eyebrow-raising vote spikes, sure. But not just because a match doesn't go the way you'd expect it too. Surprise results do legitimately happen sometimes.
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Old 2013-11-23, 10:08   Link #2683
BloodyKitty
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Congrats to Madoka!

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Cannot prove that you are right.
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Old 2013-11-23, 10:22   Link #2684
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She's the saimoe runner up that Japan deserves but not the one it needs right now
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Old 2013-11-23, 10:24   Link #2685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974 View Post
She's the saimoe runner up that Japan deserves but not the one it needs right now
LOL!Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 2013-11-23, 10:26   Link #2686
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Old 2013-11-23, 10:49   Link #2687
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Last reply to you since the match has finished, I see no point anymore in arguing. My last post on this thread too. Also my view will always clash with yours so, last reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, it wasn't a "very reaching thing". It's a simple fact. Note how I'm far from the only one focusing on this fact, which shows how important it is.
Okay, that's not very reaching if it's just a simple fact that it's a "could have been". But given none of that happened and Madoka was unchallenged during that time, no.

Quote:
Where do you get this 30% figure? Nanoha had a lot of votes in her first round match against Homura.
Assumption, dear. So what if Nanoha had a lot of votes? Does that automatically mean she has all the votes for Homura, I say no and I'd continue to see it that way.

Quote:
Madoka-Kuroneko this year was much more controversial than Madoka-Mami was in 2011. Kuroneko was ahead of Madoka during the final hour of the match, IIRC. Then she had a bunch of votes taken away from her in a purging. That's much more controversial than a thread-spamming in the last few minutes of a match.
Fake votes are a thing you know That is your opinion and I can't really force you to think the same on the matter, the same could be said to me

Quote:
No, not necessarily. There may well have been no significant anti-voting whatsoever going on in Sayaka vs. Mami.
Again, I don't see it that way.

Quote:
Please stop trying to deny your own words from only two or three pages back.
When did I do that?

Quote:
This is what you wrote here:
Nope, it's not a wild speculation since we're very well aware that the non-Madoka voters are still alive and that was proven by the Kuroneko-Madoka match.

------------------------------------------

That's what you wrote. Your argument here is that the Kuroneko-Madoka match proves the existence of anti-Madoka voters. And my counterargument is that no, Kuroneko is simply legit strong herself. She has her own supporters, and didn't need to be boosted by anti-voters.
I didn't say Anti-voters would equate to non-Madoka voters. Sorry I wasn't clear about it. Non-Madoka voters meaning, I was referring to the resistance which were very much alive at that point. I agree that Kuroneko is strong, but the resistance and Kuroneko voters are likely to also compose the haters, anti-voters and whatsoever. It's not odd to consider that, they're part of the resistance in the first place.

Quote:
No, I did pay attention. I just think you're blowing this thread-spamming bit out of proportion.
Even if you did, I don't see why that's not a controversy. You might see it as blowing out of proportion, but me, as an observant in that match, I find that controversial. It could have very well changed the result in that match without the spammer.

Quote:
There's a difference between merely calling a character a favorite to win, and saying she's "the natural way to go". Perhaps you weren't being arrogant, and it was just questionable word choice. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.
Isn't it just a natural way to go if the fan favorite wins it all? I thought that's common knowledge here. If the fan favorite didn't win, there were clearly factors that obstructed the supposed outcome, making the whole thing not go naturally.

Quote:
If you have unusual occurrences during the match, like eyebrow-raising vote spikes, sure. But not just because a match doesn't go the way you'd expect it too. Surprise results do legitimately happen sometimes.
Questioning results that are odd and doesn't apply to what you have observed is definitely a surprise. But then, analyzing what may have been the factor why the outcome was different, questioning it in the process is only a logical thing to do. Theorizing before a match is fine too, you know.

Last edited by BaKaBaKaOtaKu; 2013-11-23 at 11:03.
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:05   Link #2688
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Congrats to Kaname Madoka our Saimoe 2013 Champion! Sayaka isn't able to keep up with Madoka at all so the finals is pretty one sided. So it seems Madoka is the strongest Puella Magi right now. She eliminated 3 of her 4 allies. Poor Homura for running into Madoka in Round 2. Madoka Magica is the first series to produce two winners and I think Shaft is the second studio to take two championships. This is the 21st straight win for the Puella Magi. They haven't lost a match to someone outside their group in over 2 months. It's not quite as good as their 22 match win streak in 2011 and Saki's record of 27 straight wins in a single year still stands. However, the Puella Magi will get another shot at increasing their multi year win steak record which currently stands at 28. With all the Puella Magi dominance, it's sort of odd that Madoka is the least dominating Saimoe champion ever since she's the only one who lost a match on route to her championship. 52 matches have featured a character from Madoka Magica and in 49 of them, a Puella Magi won. The Puella Magi will be back next time so I guess we'll see if anyone can challenge them next year. For now, congrats again to Kaname Madoka and I'll you all next year!
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:10   Link #2689
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:16   Link #2690
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I'm calling this a run, and I will see you all next summer. Take care.
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:22   Link #2691
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Triple_R give it up, you can't win an argument against someone who bends his own arguments over and over again.
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:37   Link #2692
MartianMage
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Congrats to Kaname Madoka for winning J-Saimoe 2013!
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Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
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Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2013-11-23, 11:38   Link #2693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite View Post
Congrats to Kaname Madoka our Saimoe 2013 Champion! Sayaka isn't able to keep up with Madoka at all so the finals is pretty one sided.
Sayaka was keeping it close almost the entire match. The final vote differential was less than 100 votes, and the percentage breakdown was tighter than 60/40 (going by what Hachiko put up, I never did the math myself I'll admit). That's not that one-sided, TRE. One-sided is Kanade vs. Eucliwood for the ISML 2012 Tiara. This match was reasonably tight, and Sayaka lost respectably.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Triple_R give it up, you can't win an argument against someone who bends his own arguments over and over again.
He can have the last word on that particular debate. I think most points have been covered thoroughly, and I don't feel like there's much I need to add at this juncture.
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Old 2013-11-23, 12:16   Link #2694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite View Post
Congrats to Kaname Madoka our Saimoe 2013 Champion! Sayaka isn't able to keep up with Madoka at all so the finals is pretty one sided. So it seems Madoka is the strongest Puella Magi right now. She eliminated 3 of her 4 allies. Poor Homura for running into Madoka in Round 2. Madoka Magica is the first series to produce two winners and I think Shaft is the second studio to take two championships. This is the 21st straight win for the Puella Magi. They haven't lost a match to someone outside their group in over 2 months. It's not quite as good as their 22 match win streak in 2011 and Saki's record of 27 straight wins in a single year still stands. However, the Puella Magi will get another shot at increasing their multi year win steak record which currently stands at 28. With all the Puella Magi dominance, it's sort of odd that Madoka is the least dominating Saimoe champion ever since she's the only one who lost a match on route to her championship. 52 matches have featured a character from Madoka Magica and in 49 of them, a Puella Magi won. The Puella Magi will be back next time so I guess we'll see if anyone can challenge them next year. For now, congrats again to Kaname Madoka and I'll you all next year!
Next year? No thanks... I rather see the next tournament cancelled.

For me, despite Madoka as a champion this year, Saimoe 2013 is a "No Contest" due to absurd ruling!
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Old 2013-11-23, 12:20   Link #2695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
For me, despite Madoka as a champion this year, Saimoe 2013 is a "No Contest" due to absurd ruling!
Agree. I second that.
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Old 2013-11-23, 12:28   Link #2696
Ichuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW1 View Post
So Madoka becomes the first loser to win the championship, thanks to a match where both contestants combined polled fewer votes than last year's winner.

The question for next year's tournament is, will there be more contestants than voters?
If they keep this up there will be more contestants than voters. For next year I hope they bring better policies, since I like AST so much I don't want it gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
For me, despite Madoka as a champion this year, Saimoe 2013 is a "No Contest" due to absurd ruling!
Thirded, it felt like whoever the admin wants to win wins instead of a contest.

For AST 2014 if there is one my wishes are Happiness Charge being Smile Precure's 2012 strength at least and Suigintou making into final 8 (or 16 if they are gonna keep that repcharge thing)

Last edited by Ichuki; 2013-11-23 at 12:54.
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Old 2013-11-23, 13:18   Link #2697
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichuki View Post
If they keep this up there will be more contestants than voters. For next year I hope they bring better policies, since I like AST so much I don't want it gone.



Thirded, it felt like whoever the admin wants to win wins instead of a contest.

For AST 2014 if there is one my wishes are Happiness Charge being Smile Precure's 2012 strength at least and Suigintou making into final 8 (or 16 if they are gonna keep that repcharge thing)
Not sure Rozen can pull that much of a comeback after all these years and given that I don't feel the reboot was greeted that warmly. Nanoha, too,even with the movies and stuff, can't make a decent comeback, so I'd consider the old series done unless something really drastic happens.

Then again, looking at all previous Saimoe results, I'm not sure I understand them Japanese. More than half of the time I can't comprehend why a particular character is that popular in Japan. Then again, with just 400 voters, not sure I should even be talking about general popularity. EDIT: ( Then again, looking at the line-up for the next ISML match, I can't comprehend why certain characters are popular in general apparently).
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Old 2013-11-23, 15:06   Link #2698
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Congrats to Madoka! Now the three greatest magical girls of our times all have been crowned Saimoe Champions:

2002 Sakura Kinomoto
2005 Nanoha Takamachi
2013 Madoka Kaname

Sadly her victory comes when the number of voters and the tournament's credibility are at an all-time low. Saimoe needs to change or die.

IMHO they should just abandon the tradition of voting in 2ch threads and make a modern website, ISML-style. Maybe with even stricter security (login/pwd, captcha recognition, etc.)

If the Saimoe admins stubbornly refuse to change the format, then it's better if JSaimoe dies and some other tournament rises to claim its name. Unfortunately I don't think that tournament could be ISML because the League format and the all-times participation make the tournament too long and boring.
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Old 2013-11-23, 17:27   Link #2699
wontaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Congrats to Madoka! Now the three greatest magical girls of our times all have been crowned Saimoe Champions:

2002 Sakura Kinomoto
2005 Nanoha Takamachi
2013 Madoka Kaname

Sadly her victory comes when the number of voters and the tournament's credibility are at an all-time low. Saimoe needs to change or die.

IMHO they should just abandon the tradition of voting in 2ch threads and make a modern website, ISML-style. Maybe with even stricter security (login/pwd, captcha recognition, etc.)

If the Saimoe admins stubbornly refuse to change the format, then it's better if JSaimoe dies and some other tournament rises to claim its name. Unfortunately I don't think that tournament could be ISML because the League format and the all-times participation make the tournament too long and boring.
Please allow me to repeat this : You will have more luck trying to create your own Saimoe event than J AST people making reforms you desire.

Here is an interesting reason why I am trying to urge some of you to make your own saimoe event. Usually, one Saimoe event can help another in many ways because voters are free to participate in as many of them as they like. It is my opinion that demise of Best Moe Tournament and current state of J AST has hurt ISML a bit. For example, since the demise of Best Moe Tournament, it now is much harder to campaign to the Koreans. There also was good deal of ideas that came from Best Moe Tournament and we had opportunity to learn from each other as well. I really miss this exchange of ideas between Best Moe Tournament and ISML. Since number of "viable" Saimoe events has declined, it probably will help ISML to have another Saimoe events that is vibrant and different. So, try and make one. You know what you want, and you also know what you don't want from ISML. I'm sure it can be good.
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Old 2013-11-23, 19:04   Link #2700
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Having had some time to rest and reflect on it, I'm now a bit more "cool" with this final result than I was a few hours ago.

And I do share Gohan78's sentiments, to a degree. Sometimes I get the impression that titular magical girls don't get as much respect as their dark magical girl counterparts. With that in mind, I do love how J-SaiMoe have now had the three most prominent titular magical girls since its inception win it all, in Card Captora Sakura, Nanoha Takamachi, and Kaname Madoka. It's great to see that the archetypal magical girl is still beloved amongst SaiMoe voters.

So a stronger congrats to Madoka, this time, from me.

A final celebratory pic that I think captures well her victory in J-SaiMoe 2013!

Spoiler for Madoka Flies Triumphantly:
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