2010-01-07, 09:59 | Link #241 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Furthermore, it's a fudge on the writers' part, since superluminal communication is currently thought to be impossible. I don't see how Earth scientists could have figured out how to push data at faster-than-light velocities without finding a corresponding solution for the ISVs. Granted, data has no mass so, theoretically, it's easier to make it travel at light speed (actually, it already does) than for a spaceship. But at faster than light speed? How did they make that happen? As for the bit about how the crew of an ISV perceives time, so what if a one-way journey to and from Pandora feels like a trip that takes less than six years to them? From Earth's perspective, it will still take at least that much time to get to Pandora. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-01-07 at 10:18. |
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2010-01-07, 10:15 | Link #242 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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The weapons technology in the Avatar universe seems didn’t recognize or develop laser or energy weaponry, but instead they focus on projectiles and missiles. So in a sense we can still relate with the RDA and humans weaponry because the specs are quite between our time and them, with the exception of space technology, human/biological engineering, robots/exoskeletons or visual monitors. And for earth to launch a massive invasion, aside with R&D with the load-up capacity to solve their logistical problems, they better ready to mass produce a huge amount of cryonics hibernation system within their fleets lol. Quote:
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2010-01-07, 11:38 | Link #243 | |
Baruk Khazad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: finland
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Like they say about the scorpion gunship: The AT-99 “Scorpion” Gunship is a highly maneuverable Mosquito-class missile platform. It is a late twenty first century airframe, developed in a period when UCAV’s were being phased out due to EMP ground-to-air weaponry falling into the hands of insurgents and terrorists, which required human pilots to be re-instated into combat aircraft after eight decades of Unmanned Aerial Combat Vehicles. Because all vehicles used on Pandora are manufactured in situ using stereolithography production techniques, it was necessary to choose vehicles from amongst 21st century designs that did not require the exotic materials technology of the mid-22nd century warfighting airframes. http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php/scorpion_gunship |
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2010-01-07, 11:40 | Link #244 | |||||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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I will point out that the effect of RKKV's can be calculated. There's a good quote on that page to. Spoiler for RKKV:
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This is like suggesting to the ancient Egyptians that they develop C-130 transport planes so they can organize a massive invasion of South East Asia. Quote:
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Firstly Pandora has crazy magnetic fields at work, which prevent really crazy high tech equipment from working. So they go with older mid 21st century designs due to their higher reliability. A more subtle reason for this, is logistical. When You've got to construct almost all of your equipment on planet with a limited industrial base, it's probably going to be more practical to construct older hardware that will be easier to maintain and construct than the cutting edge stuff. Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2010-01-07 at 11:56. |
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2010-01-07, 11:43 | Link #245 | |
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Once they took over Pandora Earth could send another wave of ships for mining purposes. |
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2010-01-07, 11:58 | Link #246 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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First you gotta organize the invasion fleet. Then you gotta wait for the invasion fleet to get there. Then you gotta organize the mining fleet. Then you gotta wait for the mining fleet to get there. Then you gotta wait for mining operations to get restarted. AND THEN you gotta wait for the shipments to get back to earth. |
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2010-01-07, 12:07 | Link #247 | ||||
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2010-01-07, 12:08 | Link #248 | |
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2010-01-07, 13:07 | Link #249 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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When I actually heard them using the word "Unobtainium" in the movie.... I wondered why they didn't go for it with "Illudium Phosdex" (the shaving cream atom).
Here's a nice list of fictional elements and materials on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...omic_particles Heh, the thread is starting to sound like old Star Trek "rationalization" science/engineering discussion panels. Just some random notes: 0.7c is not fast enough for very much time dilation - hence the need for deep-freeze (food, boredom). The formula involves no rocket science: delta t1 = delta t2 / sqrt[1 - v**2/c**2] where v = 0.7c. That assumes constant velocity when actually they would spend the first part of the trip accelerating from "zero" and the last part decelerating to "zero", making it even slower. Its not clear what the cost of shipping mass across interstellar space is so that hampers the discussion. FTL communication has a lot more basis in possibility than moving any mass at FTL but so far the universe seems iron-clad in preventing any information transfer that helps *us* (though it may be intrinsic to making the universe work). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superluminal_communication The low bit-rate plot device has some validity since we're discovering right now that the problem of communication via entanglement is "hard" (or maybe impossible) and that quantum computing is "moderately hard". Politics - if the masses are able to get video of the contractor troops decimating the Home Tree and shooting the Navi, there's a huge political effect awaiting the corporation when it gets home. It depends on what "unobtainium" is used for and how that affects the population.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2010-01-07 at 13:19. |
2010-01-07, 13:10 | Link #250 | |||||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Seeing as how humanity in the Avatar verse DOES have relativistic starships, RKKV's are easily done. It's just a matter of pointing at the planet yourself at the planet you don't like and releasing all the rocks. Quote:
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We do know some of the characteristics of the ISV venture star though. It's a gigantic mile long engine that can only carry a measly 350 tons of cargo. If you need a mile of engine to move 350 tons, scaling up is not going to be very practical. |
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2010-01-07, 13:48 | Link #251 | ||||
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For creating a landing zone, I think you should either bomb the shit out of one of the planet’s surface, that’ll create a desert where Eywa couldn’t reach you, then you could transport manufacturing equipments down along with the Scorpions... Actually it just crosses my mind as why the hell did RDA didn’t built or construct a military space station capable storing up the war gears? |
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2010-01-07, 16:45 | Link #252 | |||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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While a concentrated R&D effort certainly could produce more efficient engine designs, the problem comes from the current human star ships being hundreds to possibly thousands of orders of magnitude not efficient enough for the job being proposed here. You're talking about many generations of technological advancement here. You can't just make this kind of jump at the drop of a hat. Quote:
If you don't want the landing mission to get torn to shreds, you bassically have to kill a large percentage of the biomass at least on the continent you land on. Quote:
And it's not just a matter of transporting vehicles. You can cram the ISV's full of tons of empty vehicles. The problem comes when you consider that vehicles without fuel, ammo, spare parts and maintenance personell are militarily worthless. Even under ideal conditions vehicles needs ALLOT of all these things, but in this situation where you're effectively out of reach of any immediate resupply you're going to have to bring even more along with you. Why would you build a space station to store weapons and ammo if you could store it down in your fortified base camp? |
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2010-01-07, 17:01 | Link #253 | |
Baruk Khazad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: finland
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More powerful than most Earth governments The Resources Development Administration (RDA) has monopoly rights to all products shipped, derived or developed from Pandora and any other off-Earth location. These rights were granted to RDA in perpetuity by the Interplanetary Commerce Administration (ICA), with the stipulation that they abide by a treaty that prohibits weapons of mass destruction and limits military power in space. http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php/the_rda |
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2010-01-07, 19:54 | Link #254 | ||||||
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And what’s with the problem of human star ships being hundreds to possibly thousands of orders of magnitude not efficient? Of course you couldn’t just make it in a blink of an eye. That’s because its called R&D. How is it that considered a many generations of technological advancement when the humans has already got enough the blueprint portfolio from the previous ISV development so that they don’t need to start from scratch? Quote:
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2010-01-07, 20:38 | Link #255 | |||||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Even if you get rid of the places where Eywa can talk to the Na'vi, Ewya seems to still be capable of communicating and organizing with Pandoran organisms by other means. Quote:
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Wouldn't it have been more logical from the perspective of the guys on the ground, considering they're working with limited resources to keep all their weapons close by and on hand in order to better prevent scenarios in which they would need to rely on back up weapons hidden in space? |
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2010-01-07, 21:10 | Link #256 | ||||||
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I was more thinking like developing technologies closer from existing ones. From military it could be like the F-18C Hornets developed into E/F category Super Hornets, or aircraft super carriers from Essex (22 thousand tons) to Midway class (45 thousand tons) until finally the existing Forrestal (70-ish thousand tons ). Or from civil point of view the constant development of airlines or cars with cost-efficiency. With this humanity would probably able to think something up regarding the ISVs transports. Quote:
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2010-01-07, 22:36 | Link #257 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Age: 36
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@ TrueKnight: I can't see how you can deny the energy output of relativistic weapons. The maths it sound at at the distances from Earth to Pandora it would be 'easy' to accelerate something to almost c (lightspeed). Nukes are proven in combat, but how much testing does an inert object that does damge purely through kinetic impact really need to be proven.
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2010-01-09, 00:37 | Link #258 |
Jag äter idioter
Graphic Designer
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For those interested, FOX has released the full screenplay to the public.
You can get it over at ComingSoon.net
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2010-01-11, 17:10 | Link #259 | |||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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At that point you're not talking about going from F18's to Super Hornets. You're talking about going from Leonardo DaVinci's original flying machine to super hornets. Quote:
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2010-01-12, 05:52 | Link #260 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 41
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Apparently some folk found Avatar racist.
INMOVIES article
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Last edited by killer3000ad; 2010-01-12 at 06:03. |
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