Evolution or Creationism?

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

All a creationist has to do is take my arguement, which I don't believe myself, and accept that god created life through evolution. If one thinks about it, it makes sense. After all, the universe is dynamic. As a result of this dynamic universe, environments change. Now the life god originally created might be fine in the environment god created it for, however, in a new environment, it might be lacking.

Is god supposed to go back and alter his creation to better fit the new environment every single time? The guy's got a universe to run. Why bother when he could have given the life form the ability to adapt on it's own? It makes sense that if there is a god, and this god created a dynamic universe, he would have made life dynamic as well.

Now, if life is dynamic, why would god bother creating all the individual life forms? Life could simply be triggered and left to develop on it's own through a process defined by god. The bible simply says god created life, but except for humans, it doesn't say how. Since god triggered the process, and defined how it works, anything that comes from this process was created by god as surely as if god had crafted it "by hand".

While god may have triggered this process, he does not directly interfere with it. Thus, from our perspective, god is irrelevant to the process. As such, we can separate god from evolution and talk about evolution in purely scientific terms.

Human evolution is still a problem, as the bible says god created adam out of dirt, and eve from adam's rib. However, when cain kills able, he is banished, at which point he encounters other humans. The bible says nothing about where those other humans came from. Perhaps those humans arose through evolution, while adam and eve were directly crafted by god?

One must bend, twist, and stretch the bible to make this work. However, one doesn't have to do so to the point of breaking. If it allows someone to keep their faith and still accept modern science, isn't it a good thing? I'm atheist myself, but I'm not about to insist that everyone gives up religion to accept scientific teachings. It doesn't require much to come up with a way to accept both. If I can come up with one, surely someone who actually cares, and isn't just doing it for the sake of arguement can as well.

That's actually what I don't get. Humans are so insistant on clinging to the belive of a creator, even with all of the scientific proof out there. I swear, humans are too primitive.

Maybe it's for the better, because things to belive in like that keeps humans sane...

[Potatochobit]

Humans are so insistant on clinging to the belive of a creator, even with all of the scientific proof out there.

apparently you do not hear yourself talking.

have you seen a dna strand? can you explain how life is created? how can a single cell contain the information to construct your whole body from birth? you cant even see the cell with your eyes!

have you taken a math class? what is the percentage that if all the building blocks of life were left in a puddle they would arrange themselves into dna?

science clearly points to a master blue print that could in no way have been written on its own.

The bible says nothing about where those other humans came from. Perhaps those humans arose through evolution, while adam and eve were directly crafted by god?

a whole lot about creation is indeed left out. 40+ chapters in a single book obviously cannot hold all the information about how life was created. however, from the context of how other events are written and by the dialogue eve has in the genesis when her third child is born seems to show that she had many many children and her children had children. eventually some of them left to form little families and tribes. remember, people lived hundreds of years during that time. it also states the origin of music and entertainment was created way back then. i guess you really dont know what free time is till you live to be 950 years old.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

apparently you do not hear yourself talking.

Please don't say things like that. I already have a large enough inferiority complex to every other human being in existance...

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

science clearly points to a master blue print that could in no way have been written on its own.

Just because something is complex doesnt mean it has to be "designed" by something or someone. Sometimes complexity can come from very simple things, try the game of life and you'll see what Im talking about.

[Potatochobit]

Please don't say things like that.

i'm sorry ;__;

there is no such thing as a random pattern. the chaos theory clearly explains this. didnt u watch jurassic park?

[kujoe]

I was taught both actually. When I was young, I was educated in a Christian school where I was taught both. I had a religion and a science class. With that said, it makes me wonder how this issue got so big. Sometimes, I even find it a little amusing.

However if you ask me, creationism—at its core—is one of the many cosmological myths that have shaped how human beings have viewed themselves within the world. Such myths have served as discourses on human relationships, human frailties and human purpose. They reflect culture, as culture is based around them. And for these to be part of the doctrine of religions, it comes as no surprise why even today our so-called "backward" religions still exist in one form or another.

But to teach such things as if they have been given a semblance of fact, or even worse, for creationism or intelligent design to be taught in a science class? Nonsense. That would be like teaching theology under philosophy of religion.

As for evolution itself, a student would've been taught this in his science class sooner or later anyway. I see no reason why this theory shouldn't be taught. Personally, I think it's a good thing that humans and apes could possibly share a common ancestor.

"All in its proper place" is what I'll say.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

Please don't say things like that.

i'm sorry ;__;

there is no such thing as a random pattern. the chaos theory clearly explains this. didnt u watch jurassic park?

Yes. That opened my eyes to a lot

Though if you think about it, as complicated as human thought is, that's predetermined by the chaos theory too...

[Lexander]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

a whole lot about creation is indeed left out. 40+ chapters in a single book obviously cannot hold all the information about how life was created. however, from the context of how other events are written and by the dialogue eve has in the genesis when her third child is born seems to show that she had many many children and her children had children. eventually some of them left to form little families and tribes. remember, people lived hundreds of years during that time. it also states the origin of music and entertainment was created way back then. i guess you really dont know what free time is till you live to be 950 years old.

950 ... years. Let's take that number.

900 years where Eve is able to produce.

I'll give her 300 years where she is not pregnant ...
600 possible babies.
300 Girls.
That's roughly 300 girls that each of Eve's daughter's could produce.
250 make it through life.
Each of those 250 girls will be able to make another 250 girls in their lifetime.

Assuming Eve could also live that long, in 3 generation after Eve the earth would have had a population of at least 3,800,000,000
(250 x 250 x 250 x 250 - all the now dead people.)
I can get really generous and devide that number by 2 for any sort of disaster or maybe fertility problems the girls were having.

That's still 1,900,000,000+ people.



How long till they've matured enough to produce?
How long was their gestation period?
How often did they mate?
How about a basic one ... I know it's hinted that they lived that long but why did they live 950 years?
was there a drastic drop in lifespan with each generation? Meaning majour change to the DNA?

This is the stuff I want to know. Everything else is speculation.

Too bad people aren't too crazy about the 950 years in a lifespan theory for me to read some articles on it.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

and by the dialogue eve has in the genesis when her third child is born seems to show that she had many many children and her children had children. eventually some of them left to form little families and tribes. remember.

You know, Im confused. It is said that God made Adam and Eve, and that their children have families who eventually become the people we are today. But! Who did their (Adam and Eve's) children marry? Each other? does that mean incest existed from the beginning of mankind?

Also, theres the issue that, by that definition, we are ALL blood related, in one way or another (It wasn't mentioned that God created any other men besides Adam and Eve, by his own hands). So what, we have been having long-distant incest relationships with each other all along?

[Komataguri]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

Yea, there's also theories that some huge volcano's erupted, the climate suddenly got cold. I'm sure nobody knows why the dinosaurs died, etc etc. Sorry, but consistantly I read, nobody knows how the dinosaurs died.

Actually, last I checked it was pretty much confirmed that it was an astral impact.


All over the planet, there is a finite level of dust in the sediment level around the time the dinosaurs died out, That is indicative of an impact.


I believe they also found what they thought to be the creator from the impact, However, I forget where this was...South America IIRC.

[Mr_Paper]

Originally Posted by Komataguri

I believe they also found what they thought to be the creator from the impact, However, I forget where this was...South America IIRC.

The Gulf of Mexico with the focus near Yucatan peninsula.

[Mr.Hawq]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

That's actually what I don't get. Humans are so insistant on clinging to the belive of a creator, even with all of the scientific proof out there. I swear, humans are too primitive.

Maybe it's for the better, because things to belive in like that keeps humans sane...

Maybe the talks of creation came before Evolution did. And today, maybe not in multi cultural countries, like Canada, and America, people are still taught to believe in Creation.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hawq

Maybe the talks of creation came before Evolution did. And today, maybe not in multi cultural countries, like Canada, and America, people are still taught to believe in Creation.

Yeah. It's human nature to try to explain and rationalize things that they don't understand. Talk about humans being the first beings on earth was thought up way before the discovery of fossils that predate anything even remotely related to humans.

[NoSanninWa]

I notice that this poll leaves off a very important option. What about all those of us who believe that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster? I am proud to be a Pastafarian.

[Grees]

Now you are just being silly.

Anywho, man saw lightning, man got scared, man made up stuff to feel more comfortable, and that's how god was created. Things that have meaning is less threatening, it gives you certainty so you can live your life without worrying too much eventhough the meaning is just make belief, this is true now just as it is true in the past.

[Lexander]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

I notice that this poll leaves off a very important option. What about all those of us who believe that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster? I am proud to be a Pastafarian.

I had a few questions for you?. Bear with me.

As a representetive of the Pastaferians I have to ask ... what is Flying Spaghetti Monster's view on gay marriage ... or as you commonly call it homosaucial relationships?

[Kurz]

Enough of the puns...

[Illuyankas]

I guess they're really meat-ballsing up your noodle, Kurz

Pastafarianism to be taught in schools!

[mantidor]

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

Please don't say things like that.

i'm sorry ;__;

there is no such thing as a random pattern. the chaos theory clearly explains this. didnt u watch jurassic park?

I think you didnt get at all what I was trying to say... the game of life is anything but random!

Lets go back to DNA, DNA is a complex thing, but in fact, is a chain of four types who concatenate by couples, very simple, why couldnt it be designed on its own? we have had millions of years letting the DNA chains to mutate and do whatever combinations they can make with no restrictions.

[Imazul]

I thought Adam and Eve only had 2 sons.

And 1 of them was killed by the other who was punish by god and became a vampire? Unless i'm messing my stories here. I never learned that stuff, im not christian.