(L+CR) Shirobako (Mizushima Tsutomu and PA Works)

[R.LocK]

Hrm, so BD&DVD release is on December 24.

Once again, a fairly sad episode. A pity I missed first few minutes of broadcast.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I'm not sure why you're using a part-time gravure idol to represent the average a-list seiyuu...Lets look at someone like Hanakana. She's not really pretty nor does she do gravure and she can't sing either(if you're talking about those character songs, i'm telling you, you don't need much technical vocal ability to even make those.)
The only seiyuu who can probably sing is Nana Mizuki but that's because she has been trained in singing Enka since she was young and even then nana doesn't do gravure nor does she look like a model.

My standards aren't even very high but saying that the average a-list seiyuu today could sing well, and looks like a model is a bit over exaggerating it.

Hanakana not pretty!? I know there's no accounting for taste, but I'll have to respectfully disagree. I certainly wouldn't throw her out of bed.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Haak

Wow, I can't believe an animator earns so little annually. And that's a full time job? That's just criminal.

It's true for most animators. The vast majority of people work for a few years, never advance far, and then leave the industry. Supposedly, this accounts for 80-90% of people.

Not everyone is impoverished though. Senior animators and those with specialized skills do decently (they don't get rich, but they earn enough to enjoy a decent living, pick what projects they want to work on, take a season off each year, etc.).

Another factor is that quoted incomes usually come from workers organizations like JaniCA. Animators who do well tend to avoid membership in those groups (nor do they openly go around complaining about how bad the industry is), so representation is skewed toward low earners in the industry.

[Stark700]

Wow....

Good episode with the buildup although I hope Ema gets a bit more confidence soon.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by TJR

It's true for most animators. The vast majority of people work for a few years, never advance far, and then leave the industry. Supposedly, this accounts for 80-90% of people.

Not everyone is impoverished though. Senior animators and those with specialized skills do decently (they don't get rich, but they earn enough to enjoy a decent living, pick what projects they want to work on, take a season off each year, etc.).

Another factor is that quoted incomes usually come from workers organizations like JaniCA. Animators who do well tend to avoid membership in those groups (nor do they openly go around complaining about how bad the industry is), so representation is skewed toward low earners in the industry.

Still, it does pose a serious threat to the industry. With my current studies I could become an animator, enter the game industry, become an artist; but I'm leaning towards front end development/interaction design/web design because those other options aren't as viable as one would love them to be.

Those seniors though, are they doing well because they have skills/credentials, or are they the first ones to get the best projects? I mean, wouldn't there be an effect of them actually blocking the stream, like how one can block the bottom of a sink?

The thing is though, are animators who do well trying to represent their job? I mean if they don't speak up then there's no surprise that not many people would aim to become an animator.

[AntonKutovoi]

And now I have a sudden urge to re-read "Crime and Punishment". Thanks, Shirobako.

[R.LocK]

Dost. Gosh, I did a spit-take when I saw that.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Excellent episode, even though so little "happened." Ema's feelings were brilliantly conveyed. I'm not sure whether to credit the script (Yokote Michiko), the sound director (director Mizushima), or the seiyuu -- comparative unknown Yoshimura Haruka.

I loved the way the old animator began to speak, and seemed to be imparting wisdom, but in the end he just caused trouble for poor Ema.

This show is sparing no expense on writers, with two of the top names doing all the episodes so far: Yokote Michiko and Yoshida Reiko.

@IceHism -- I agree that the vast majority of seiyuus who sing can't. In general, I think seiyuu/singers are a joke, or at least a special otaku interest. But although Mizuki Nana is the top name, she is not the only one who can actually sing. Takagaki Ayahi has a degree in vocal music, and can do just about any song. And Hayami Saori has one of the most purely "beautiful" voices I have ever heard. And of course, Chihara Minori is quite skillful. But I don't enjoy either her style or Nana-chan's, myself. Emotion I can't believe in, in both cases. Rather like Celine Dion.

[Flower]

Ep 07

Now that episode was one I enjoyed...I find it is easier to relate to Ema and her struggles % wise than Aoi's though, so that may be part of it. Not that I dislike Aoi's character or anything, mind you. I do like her. But Ema I can relate more to on a personal level, I guess.

Good thing Aoi's older sister Kaori arrived when she did to pass along a little life experience and insight from her years in the workplace, though.

[blakstealth]

I think this was the first time where I lost track of time and didn't want the episode to end, which is weird since I don't like Ema all that much. I do hope she gets into the swing of things, though.

[HandofFate]

Wow, Ema so hard on herself. It fits the character they're making for her.
But dang, 4 cuts rejected and she gets all depressed and questioning her career path.

Good chance for Aoi on being in charge of episode of the final episode. Sounds like a good experience for her. Not really sure what the career path for a production assistant is, especially one that seems to still be paying her dues and getting her foot in the door like Aoi is.

Bad with names, but who's the one that was out for a smoke at the end of the episode?

[AntonKutovoi]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I agree that the vast majority of seiyuus who sing can't. In general, I think seiyuu/singers are a joke, or at least a special otaku interest. But although Mizuki Nana is the top name, she is not the only one who can actually sing. Takagaki Ayahi has a degree in vocal music, and can do just about any song. And Hayami Saori has one of the most purely "beautiful" voices I have ever heard. And of course, Chihara Minori is quite skillful. But I don't enjoy either her style or Nana-chan's, myself. Emotion I can't believe in, in both cases. Rather like Celine Dion.

I actually think that a lot of seiyuus can sing, especially among veterans. Like, Mayumi Tanaka (Monkey D. Luffy) - http://youtu.be/ei9_jrL50PU , Urara Takano (Illumi from the first Hunter x Hunter anime), Chisa Yokoyama (Sasami from Tenchi Muyo) http://youtu.be/eBZxxHGMpXw http://youtu.be/0RY05-Go76I and Kazue Ikura (Kaori from City Hunter) http://youtu.be/xbDiFgeTC_g

Among males there's Juurouta Kosugi (Akio Ohtori in Utena) http://youtu.be/ai96MDHwcMU

Ryoutaro Okiayu (Toriko) http://youtu.be/MqDecFiIV3M

Koichi Yamadera (Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop)
http://youtu.be/rCE4oG6ORKM

(or from the same album: http://youtu.be/-KbRYfjKtHk)

[Dop]

Wow. Reading some of that analysis of average earnings in the anime industry makes you know when you're well off.

I love the way this show isn't really sugarcoating the industry with Ema's struggles under pressure. Although I am quite worried about how Taro's going to screw things up this time..

I was unreasonably amused by 'The robot I made is going through puberty and it's tough'. It'd be great fun if they made spoof trailers for some of the shows they mention as extras on the physical release.

[FlareKnight]

Certainly felt for Ema in this one. Girl has all that pressure on herself and is struggling to find the balance. Speed and skill are both needed to a certain degree. And certainly a difference between being quite talented and a unbelievable genius. Curious to see where things go for her. I don't think this is something Aoi is going to be able to solve. Hopefully the other animators will be able to help Ema out there.

And the best thing was the lack of Tarou. His presence wasn't at the ideal level of 0%, but I'll take it. Good chance for Aoi in getting that last episode. If she can get it done right, that will be a huge boost for her going forward.

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Still, it does pose a serious threat to the industry. With my current studies I could become an animator, enter the game industry, become an artist; but I'm leaning towards front end development/interaction design/web design because those other options aren't as viable as one would love them to be.

The industry doesn't actually hire formally trained animators. Anyone with that background would be nuts to accept those conditions and would do much better in a different field. Rather, the companies aim for the bottom: high school graduates with no training and little to no job experience. Hiring standards are low - some recruits wouldn't last in a normal office or at the grocery store (Tarou may be a parody of this).

One misconception is that the animators in question are highly skilled. On the contrary, most have little skill and are only used as temporary labour (the companies expect them to quit if they can't develop the demanded skills.....). This churn allows production costs to stay low.

In short, if you love anime and know how to trace pictures with a pencil, you're good to go.

Those seniors though, are they doing well because they have skills/credentials, or are they the first ones to get the best projects? I mean, wouldn't there be an effect of them actually blocking the stream, like how one can block the bottom of a sink?

It's more skill than anything, and those who offer what their peers can't get good projects. The system is built on churn, so seniority alone doesn't mean anything. Even now, there are a animators in their 20s who have moved into the higher paying and more intriguing gigs.

Furthermore, there is no career roadmap or in-depth training, so just doing your job gets you nowhere. Skill development requires mentorship, so it's essential to network with the right people (there's this stereotype that animators are recluses with no social skills, but that's mainly the churn) and seek training during spare hours. This doesn't happen on its own and is the first thing separating the 10-20% from the rest.

The thing is though, are animators who do well trying to represent their job? I mean if they don't speak up then there's no surprise that not many people would aim to become an animator.

I suppose that some animators might want to avoid biting the hand that feeds them. After all, they're satisfied enough with their income, and they have good relationships with producers/studio heads (this is probably one reason why we don't see a flurry of attacks on production committees).

I'll also add that not everyone is entirely sympathetic toward the complaints.

[Jimmy C]

One thing of note, we have seen a single completed scene from Exodus since ep3.

[Benigmatica]

Man, I thought Ochiai-san would go to G.I.Staff... But anyways. he'll sure be missed after he's done some things in Exodus.

Meanwhile, I like how Ema-chan becoming the spotlight on this week's episode. Pretty sad to see her having a dilemma of making key frames in a timely fashion without sacrificing quality. I hope she gets better next week!

[Darthtabby]

Can someone explain to me how this "key frames" and "in between frames" thing works and why they're worried about "melting?"

[Benigmatica]

In-between frames are used to fill up gaps from one key frame to another. However, if either the key frames or in-between frames are messed up, you'll get to see low-quality animation. Hence, a Jiggly Heaven scenario.

In Ema's case, having low-quality key frames would be a pain for those in-between animators as they might mess up the transition.

[AntonKutovoi]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Can someone explain to me how this "key frames" and "in between frames" thing works and why they're worried about "melting?"

I'd say you should watch the latest episode of Psycho Pass 2. There's a very good exmple of "melting" happens during the dialogue of Akane and the Sybil