(L) Noein -- Mou Hitori no Kimi e

[Altharion]

i never liked cuddly wuddly atori anyway... and i think kosagi had i tiny portion of coolness in her in ep 19.

[Splendiferous]

I think cuddly wuddly atori was a great idea and in fact, Kosagi's part in episode 19 really plays up the brilliance in my opinion:

Spoiler:

Does Atori really have amnesia at that point, or doesn't he? Kosagi thinks that he's been playing everyone for the fool by pretending to have entirely lost his memory, and certainly he's had us believe so up that point..but then his substantial change in expression and his quiet laughter after being beaten up by kosagi puts it all into doubt.

Atori is a great character in the anime to my mind because of his changes, not because he starts off as a real badass psychopath... Although he goes through two radically different personality changes in the series, these two extremities give way to some insight into his actual character, which does seem to develop and become sympathetic by the end...so that we can watch perhaps the coolest villain of noein become a sympathetic anti-hero, and that was a very interesting thing to watch.

[Cal-Reflector]

I first heard about this show from people in the Mushishi thread, some argument about which was the favorite between one person or another. After checking it out, I have a great first impression of this show:

1. Nice integration of 3D graphics and CG special effects; a downfall in 90% of the animes these days, the SFX in Noein actually blends very well with the expensive-looking 2-D animation.

2. Audio Feast: A powerful OST with expensive-sounding orchestral pieces, really left an impression on me. The OP and ED was by contrast more conventional.

3. Good basic visuals and character design, the background scenery was also detailed and vividly rendered. Notable however was the different art style in episode 2; it was obviously farmed out to a different staff/studio for just that episode only, however I found the art there more to my taste than the original style... perhaps the only instance where I preferred a farmed-out episode's style over the original.

4. Excellent action sequences, excellent, action sequences.

A brief run-down at the Noein fan-site search engine (Japanese) revealed that the most mainstream couple that fans favor is Haruka-Karas. This goes against everything I've seen up to this point and makes me look forward to the rest of the series.

Along with Mushishi, Blood+, REC, and Hanbun Tsuki Sora, Noein is one of the few watch-worthy shows from the current/previous seasons.

Overall initial impression: B+, very good.

[wao]

Yep. The interaction between Haruka and Karasu has always felt the most well done to me even right till the end.

Although it's really, really, really a pity that the character developments and subtleties lost steam in teh 2nd half of the series (to me, anyway - it wasn't BAD, but not as awesome as the first part of the series).

Although you'll find Tobi and Atori have a lot of fans (I suspect a lot of the Atori fans are really Suzumura fangirls) - and the otakus are most crazy over Haruka becase she's so damn cute and moe without being disgustingly so (a lot of people, including the staff it seems, take note of her very er... cute body structure. The waist in particular.)

And I will still never forgive that bloody animation director for eps 2 and 7. That just destroyed the essence of the designs and interpreted it into something that was totally inappropriate for the show - and unlike Utsunomiya it isn't even original, interesting, well-animated or well-drawn (as much as Utsunomiya's drawings look crap, in terms of just plain drawings they're better than the style of ep 2's drawings to me, because it doesn't attempt to unnaturally beautify things, and his way of drawing eyes is quite good I feel.)

Thank $deity that he didn't appear later on.

However, it shows how fair the director and studio were in their policy of "let the animators do whatever they want" - even though it was a style the creators (or at least Kishida and his other great animator friends) may not have intended, they let them do what they want.

[Cal-Reflector]

Originally Posted by wao

Yep. The interaction between Haruka and Karasu has always felt the most well done to me even right till the end.

Although you'll find Tobi and Atori have a lot of fans (I suspect a lot of the Atori fans are really Suzumura fangirls) - and the otakus are most crazy over Haruka becase she's so damn cute and moe without being disgustingly so (a lot of people, including the staff it seems, take note of her very er... cute body structure. The waist in particular.)

And I will still never forgive that bloody animation director for eps 2 and 7. That just destroyed the essence of the designs and interpreted it into something that was totally inappropriate for the show - and unlike Utsunomiya it isn't even original, interesting, well-animated or well-drawn (as much as Utsunomiya's drawings look crap, in terms of just plain drawings they're better than the style of ep 2's drawings to me, because it doesn't attempt to unnaturally beautify things, and his way of drawing eyes is quite good I feel.)

Like I said, I actually thought what happened in episode 2 wasn't bad at all. While stalking the japanese fansites, yes, it was apparent that Tobi and Atori were... disproportionately popular, as in, I expected more Isami-Ai/Fukuro-Akmusa or some combination there of.

Cute body structure, hmmm. That's... well, yeah I guess so. *Chuckle*

Oh, and I just realized who it was in your icon all of this time.

[wao]

Sorry, but who's Akmusa? (Do you mean Amamiku?)

They just aren't featured much so they don't have so much support. Heck, even Yuu x Haruka doesn't have as many fans as Karasu x Haruka, lolitastic as that may seem. There is a very different level of connection between them - if you want a totally warped version of that you have the relationship between Haruka and Noein.

[Altharion]

whats so warped about noein x haruka?

[wao]

Well, when you get to the later episodes... Noein is just...


...Creepy


He really disgusts me, and to me he just seems really desparate for Haruka... he's lost himself and if I were to explain any further it would be rather spoilery if you haven't watched past the subs.

[Cal-Reflector]

Have now seen 19 episodes.

Spoiler for Various thoughts so far up to 19:

Haruka: Cute as ever. It really has been a while since I've seen a heroine of this type done so well. Kind of unique to see a heroine who doesn't become permanently affected by the inevitable tragic events that surround her and keeps up her innocence and optimism through it all.

Yuu: Didn't care too much for him in the beginning other than sympathy, but the boy is turning out alright. Overshadowed for most of the show by Karas' presence, I think he's really grown up some.

Yuu's mom: Does the episode about her past count as a sort of... hmm, constructive filler episode? Since it doesn't directly impact the plot in any way. Nice episode, entertaining and immensely relieving to see things become better for everyone. Bonus points to Haruka-mama for busting out the alcohol when things were bad, the sole instance of alcohol consumption for a good cause that I've seen in anime... ever.

Karas: Still The Man. I can't get it out of my mind, when he said to Haruka the statement how to her, he is only an illusion. The immediate quote that came to mind was "Better than the Real Thing..." by U2. *Laughs* Much less time devoted to him now, wonder if I'll see any more developments of him in the future.

Fukurou: Awww man... why'd he have to die? Tsk tsk tsk... the whole connection between him, future Ai, present Ai, and present Isami has been a joy to watch and very touching. I saluted the screen when Noein took him apart.

Kosagi: Wish they had spent more time developing this character. I was rather moved by her determination to follow Karas when she removed her plug and wiped off her lipstick. Pity, if I ever wrote a fic for this series I'd probably do one between her and Karas.

Kuino: Poor bastard, first he's only got one arm, then he's only got one leg, then he's only got one eye, then he's got no arms and no mouth and no woman... jeez, if I were in his shoes I'd want to mutiny and become a traitor too. Still, can't blame Karas for having all the luck with the females.

Tobi and Atori: Tobi's kinda just there, though I applauded him when he told Kosagi to be honest with her own feelings; apparently the kid's got better romantic sense than all the adults. Atori was creepy and badass to begin with, then he changed, as if he went Cold Turkey on whatever he'd been smoking up till then, at this point it seems he's finding his former self once more. An interesting wild card.

Note: The axe on the back of Atori's shirt is... disturbingly amusing.

Cop and Lady: They don't really matter.

Shinohara: No Japanese telecom exec has that much money, 5 x 2.1 billion dollars... it's enough to purchase his own (small) aircraft carrier battle group, with crew, planes, ammo, fuel, and change left over. Nevertheless, he's the biggest arsehole in the show, and I'm waiting for some dude he wronged in the past to call Jigoku Shoujo and and pull the string on him.

Or Noein can eat him, whichever.

Noein: Will have to get owned for what he did to Fukurou... right after he finishes eating Arsehole from above.

As Wao says, the show winds down in the second half, after 12. The overall impression inclines me to compare this show with Scrapped Princess, which I regard very highly.

[Quajafrie]

Well, imo, I don't think the show really winds down after ep. 12, because my favourite episode was 16 and I really loved 15...

But yeah, episodes 17, 18, 19 weren't that good at all. And I'm a bit under-whelmed and angry because of them... The subs aren't very fast so I have to wait 1 month+ to watch an ep, and when you have 3 episodes of no real interest (well, they weren't bad, but it's Noein), I think it's reasonable to get a bit frustated...

[wao]

16 was also one of my favourite episodes in the show, but I feel that in general the 2nd half didn't deal with the story as well as the first half - it didn't have as many of those subtle moments that made it remarkable, and the plot holes started appearing everywhere... as well as some characters being sidelined and the biggest problem was that things would happen too suddenly or get dealt with too easily. For example, ep 18 - like wow, Haruka just automagically made the statues disappear... in the end the 2nd half of the show made too much use of the Torque as a convenient plot element. :\

It's still all a fair bit better than most shows in this vein, but for Noein it would have really been a masterpiece if it wasn't for the story in the 2nd half... at least the visuals alone still are very powerful and original. I don't necessarily mean the animation, I mean the animation design and the character design... and some of the key images in the show (Karasu on the steeple, for example).

[Quajafrie]

Well, you're right... the Torque element was used a million times, and especially in episode 18 (which was imo the worst episode of the whole series) it was annoyingly convenient and some things got dealt really quickly (well, that happened in episode 9 too, I found that the Yuu & his mom problem was solved very easily). I think episodes 17 & 18 (and 19, even though not too much) really destroyed a huge part of the show for me. So I think the real "let-down" were these three episodes, not the whole 2nd part. Well, I have to watch eps. 20-24 to be sure.

Anyways, Noein is one of my favorite series ever, and I don't think I'll ever forget it. Yes, there were some flaws - I hate the 3D and hoped they never used them, I never found any interest in them, I think Uchida & Kooriyama are useless, but the whole feeling of the show is so great... I just can't get it out of my mind.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Well, maybe it wasn't quite as strong through parts of the second half, but my interest never flagged at all. Those "poor" episodes were still twice as good as almost anything else. And although I undersand why people dismiss Uchida and Koriyama as unimportant, and I felt that way myself sometimes, I think that they were a kind of normal-world reference point for the amazing goings-on. Without them, we might just have felt as if we were in a fantasy world.

The magic torc was definitely a handy-dandy universal plot device, but that's not unusual in science fiction. As Arthur C. Clarke once said: "Sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic." At least for dramatic purposes, lol.

Haruka and Yuu and Karas are the center of the story. Haruka is an amazing character, so blase about weirdness and so ready to do what's best, no matter what the effect on her personally. And Yuu really did grow, albeit slowly, into someone whom you could imagine gaining the strength of Karas. Yuu showed you Karas's own doubt and fear. I am happy considering Haruka and Yuu's future together in the "real" world.

[Cal-Reflector]

Have finished watching noein...

....

.......

...................

Spoiler for No spoilers, but ARRRRRGGGGHHH.........!!!!!!!!!!:

Disclaimer: Sincere, subjective opinon follows.

Alright, I'm going to say it. I think the ending was inadequate. No unique fault of Noein's, most animes, even the quality ones, have a problem with wrapping up things nicely. Noein's inadequate ending however was particularly keenly felt, leaving a sour spot in the pit of my stomach... as if Ive just ate a bunch but am not fulfilled. What specifically am I complaining of? As follows:

I will also point out my biggest complaint with the show; I won't say it is the show's biggest weakness, because there might have been people who liked the show for the very reason: Too much of the second half of the show was caught up in the quantum-physic existentialist mumbo-jumbo. In fact, I've studied in a philo-linguistics course the same concept of human existence dependent upon acknolwedgement by others in communication... but there was too much of that stuff in the second half of the series. Not fun, not constructive, nor was I interested in knowing the college level physics that the show tried to make into one of two central plots.

Things i liked: Atori's development was quite interesting, but also covered too briefly. At some point I started calling him Raiden (Mortal Combat thunder God *chuckle*) whenever he showed up, just like how I call Haji from Blood+ Yoyoma. I appreciate his character, and the effort the staff took to animating his rich expressions, which is one of the highlights of the show even as animation quality dipped in the latter half.

The music in the show remains strong throughout.

Overall: The last several episodes lacked the general intensity that was so gripping and powerful in the first half. Personally, I think the staff was less successful in conveying the characters' emotions and the atmosphere to the viewers at the most critical moments in the show. This inadequacy which I perceive is of course partly caused by the high standards set in the earlier episodes. Noein's still a darn good show.

Somewhat relevant: So, do I prefer Mushishi or Noein? Mushishi unequivocally. Despite different genres and Noein having great animation and music, Mushishi, despite being episodic, was actually very cohesive and benefits from a great "last" episode that wrapped things up, leaving nothing wanting.

I'd rate Noein B/B+ (Good/Very Good; definte keeper), its primary drawback being too much science talk, especially in the second half. It ranks around #20 out of a list of around 100 shows I've finished watching.

[Altharion]

i also prefer mushishi over noein but i never compare them, i like both but i am always looking most forward to subbed mushish then subbed noein because i understand noein raws better then mushishi raws.

Spoiler:

i think the show should have been extended to two more episodes and i do agree with the science talk that dominated some parts of the show. I would have also liked to get some answers and flashbacks on parts of the show that were introduced but never finished or fleshed out. But on a small part i just didnt like the way it ended, it was just too obvious about what would have happened though i dont mind that too much though.

[NeoSam]

Heh there's a light novel of Noein that started recently

The first volume of the novel was published in February 2006 under the seinen(young men's) label MF Bunko J



Seinen novel
Published under the label MF Bunko J

[Altharion]

is this a novel or manga? i know you say novel but it looks like a manga judging by the cover.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by Altharion

is this a novel or manga? i know you say novel but it looks like a manga judging by the cover.

It's "light novel". This is a distinctly Japanese type of literature for people with short attention span and love of pictures.

Meaning: it's very simply written, is somewhat short (in the novelette range) and has lots of pictures.

Ah, the joys of modern culture. Personally, I'd kill for a full Noein novel to explain the sci-fi aspect in better detail, but I guess only a light novel would be sellable to a regular anime audience.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I understand people's problems with the science talk and the loose ends, but I thought the science went just exactly far enough -- sufficiently advanced science being indistinguishable from magic, lol -- and the minor loose ends were no problem for me. As for the ending, I thought it was just about perfect. Sure, we could have used another episode, and that may mean they screwed up the pacing somewhere in the latter half, but nothing is ever perfect, and this came close enough for me.

I gave Mushishi more of a chance and can now enjoy it and recognize its quality -- and see that it indeed has some emotion in it. But it in no way compares with Noein for me. I eagerly awaited each episode of Noein and downloaded it as soon as it appeared in cyberspace. I catch up with the odd episode of Mushishi as I can.

Probably it's partly because there was more character and story continuity in Noein, and I was committed to both. I could never really feel much for Ginko. Maybe he didn't have enough weakness, or his thought processes weren't apparent enough to make him human for me. Mainly, perhaps, I was never able to take the mushi seriously. I suppose other people may have had the same trouble with the "science" in Noein. Or maybe I just have low taste, lol. And Mushishi's animation is an excellent version of something normal, whereas Noein's is both excellent and unique.

[wao]

Yeah - while I'm still kind of not entirely satisfied with the ending (the more I think about it the more my heart cries for 2 more damn episodes and less Convenient Plot Elements), and while I'd concede that Mushishi deals with the story in a more sophisticated manner due to its very nature, for animation I'd say Noein wins hands down. Most people would not agree with me here but while Mushishi's was unbeliveably stable and very smooth (the bajgasfawr10rarbillions of in-betweens), it just was not unique or interesting. Noein did so many things that were fresh for a TV series or things yo'd see only in rare eps for other shows, whereas here we had it every other episode - and it wasn't even a high-budget production! Even compared to Eureka 7 which had very stable (a huge achievement for a 50 ep series!!) animation and good animation (see ep 26 ), this just felt so much more original and inventive. I guess it's not just the animation - it's the brilliant designs. The...

...I've waxed lyrical about the production of this show way too much, I shall stop boring everyone with things I've said 1032491 times over, maybe I should get around to creating a site where I can put all these odds and ends together...

But anyway. Despite the weakness in the narration/story in the 2nd half of the episode it will still remain one of my top series. I can accept some of the untied loose ends and really, some of the beautiful moments make up for it (most anime have untied loose ends without the beautiful moments) And by beautiful moments I mean the lovely subtle bits like how Karasu sadly looks at the children playing, and by that alone you can just imagine what a tortured adult like him would think when he looks at such carefreeness...

And I didn't mind the science at all, I like shows to throw in science - and even more so when it's weaved into the story like this. It's a lot better than other anime SF where you just have the science as a backstory and the actual implications of the science, besides the practical ones, are not really addressed. Like here, through the scientific Many-Worlds theory, we are also offered insight on how one person can turn out so differently yet you can believe they are but different facets of the same person, and the role of choice vs the role of circumstance in what happens in your life. And so on and so on.
(In fact I wish the show explained a little bit more about the mechanics of the Torque but I suppose they couldn't do that to their precious plot device now could they )

Now if only they'd make another show like Planetes, I think I'll cry and worship whoever manages to do that... to me that was the perfect balance between technical settings and the rest of the show (I'll be surprised if you disliked it, Cal-Reflector!), but this thread is about Noein so I shall stop plugging Planetes already...