(L) Seirei no Moribito (Guardian of the Sacred Spirit)

[monir]

Originally Posted by Joojoobees

Yeah, I hope there isn't a Balsa x Chagum ending, although Chagum killing Tanda in a jealous fit would be one heck of a plot twist. :P

I got a catch up to this show.

[Westlo]

Finally caught up to the fansubbers release by watching 14-22 in the last few days, amazing series my favorite of the year by quite a margin.

[Joojoobees]

Spoiler for That which must not be said:

This show has such a cool vibe. Sometimes they sit back and dry fruits. You have some people reading. One character heads off to an onsen.

Hard to believe the known world is facing a calamity such as the invasion of a being from another dimension.

[wao]

Just watched teh second last episode.

Spoiler for ep 25:

Okay, I don't know what to think of it - well, the effects and processing as usual were just flat-out amazing (the part with the birds flying at the end was beautiful), although some would argue that the purpose of animation isn't to copy live-action like that... well, whatever.

As one would expect, everyone managed to hold off the egg-eaters until it became morning and voila, Chagum managed to "give birth" and the Nahji/narge/whatever took it away (is the one that came the one that belonged to his brother? That'd be such a bittersweet twist.) Happy ending! Next episode we conclude with What Happens From Now On - Chagum returns to a prince's life, and who knows what happens to Barusa and Tanda (get together already!)


But while it was all pretty and concluded and everything, I can't help but feel that one part of me felt a little underwhelmed. I don't know, it's like... that's it? I suppose the tension in the episode didn't quite make its way to me while I watched it or something. It's just that the episode felt extremely straightforward and they were just getting what needed to be done done... although I did like how Tanda entered Nayugu (was it Nayugu, I keep getting them mixed up -_-) and fell off the horse which remained in Sayugu. I like moments like that where you really feel the "barrier".

Well, so much for everyone's hypothesis about political battles and everything. I guess the chunk of the story was more about a young boy growing up and everyone figuring out the truth which was just masked by the lack of proper transmission in general... nothing wrong with that, actually, because I enjoyed the episodes where Chagum showed himself growing the most (still can't forget the episode with the gambler) but the thing is when it finally does come back to the "main meat" of the story it feels, as I said, like they're going through the motions. I don't mean to be all negative and everything, but sometimes things like those do matter aside from eye candy... still, it's not bad. I just wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way.

I sure am interested in what happens the next episode though. It feels kinda sad to see Chagum returning to the royal life, somehow...

[MrProphet]

Spoiler for episode 25:

Yes, that nerge is the same bird that Sagum had. I know, what are the chances. 8)

Also, if people haven't figured it out yet, Sig Sarua are those flowers that grow in the Aoike pond where Rarunga attacked Chagum. Honey from Sig Sarua flowers is supposed to help the egg hatch. If you remember one of the earlier episodes, Saya got transported into Nayugu when she had a bit of Sig Sarua honey.

Basically, the whole Meaning (tm) of this story (besides Chagum, Barsa and other character development) is how simple folk legends and traditions hold the wisdom of past ages that eludes even the most learned of men. All the secrets of Water Spirit and the Egg-eater were there in the open, preserved by common Yakoo folk through their songs and customs and traditions.

For example, the story of how the nerge caught the egg of the dying Water Spirit and carried it to the sea to hatch was recorded in the song children sing.

And the oil torches that were used to defeat Rarunga were remembered by the common folk as the torches that everyone lights on the Midsummer Festival to guard against evil.

And Sig Sarua honey that connects one to Nayugu, as I've mentioned above.

Things like that are the gist of the story. It's all about learning how all those obscure customs of regular peasants are actually part of the oral tradition that has been passed through generations and that has outlived that conventional knowledge of the Astrologers.

[EasyPrey]

In case someone did not know that episode 22 has been subbed.

Spoiler for Episode 22 Comments (subbed):

We finally get to hear the old folks song, that the little girl in episode 18 was smart enough to remember.

♪ Caw, caw, come, come. ♪
♪ Caw, caw, come, come. ♪
♪ Will there be sunshine, a blizzard, or a rainstorm tomorrow? ♪
♪ Look to the Aogiri and behold the clouded skies. ♪
♪ Don't let the rice paddies dry up. Pray for water. ♪
♪ Add fertilizer and grow the rice. ♪
♪ Fly, fly, nahji. ♪
♪ Fly, fly, nahji. ♪
♪ If you fly to the sea, rain will fall and rice will grow. ♪

That song has really grown on me. Not to mention, this song really tells the tale of what happend/what will happen.

I will also note that I miscalculated the time after watching the raw. Shaman Torogai left before the winter. So, it appears that Chagum, Balsa and Tunda would up spending quite a bit of time together and Chagum came over his "depression" fairly quickly.

Few people might realize that, they already showed us the New Yateka (sp?) people's version of that song in episode 1:

♪ Come, come, Nahji ♪
♪ Come, come, Nahji ♪
♪ Become a black cloud ♪
♪ and come flying from the northern mountains ♪

This series continue to "play" like a novel. The authors are in no hurry and are taking their time building character. And of course, thanks for Anime-Kraze for doing a kick ass job. Thanks guys.

-EasyPrey

[NakedAngelX]

Ahhhh this episode felt so short... especially after going through all the trouble to end it so quick.. feel kinda at lost for some reason.

Spoiler for Ep 25:

It ended?.... I wonder what the last episode'll be about now. The part where Balsa threw the egg into the air was especially cool. The song has a quite nice flow too, its starting to make me think if it actually is a song from the era back then haha. Seirei No Moribito!!!

[runpsicat]

Spoiler for Episode 25:

Like wao, I felt rather underwhelmed. The scripting suddenly plummeted a few notches (well, OK, there were signs of this in the last episode too), giving way to pretty trite/campy exchanges that didn't even really make all that much sense, like Tanda telling Balsa he can get the egg out of Chagum as long as he can get Chagum away to a relatively safe place, no problem, then mostly gawking for the rest of the time while Balsa et al. hacked away at the La Lunga horde. And I wasn't very convinced by just how "easy" it was to get the egg out of Chagum, too... Tanda just figured it out "automagically" from that vague stuff Torogai and Shuga talked about re. what happened 200 years ago when Nanai and a shaman worked together? What? I don't know, the clumsiness of it all really detracted from what should've been a more intense "zomg people putting their lives on the line" thing they were emphasizing in the preview after episode 24.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Spoiler for Episode 25:

I'll agree with wao and runpsicat. The grand finale felt anti-climatic to me too. The big showdown versus the horde of Rarunga did not feel as exciting as the duels between real people that we've seen in previous episodes. "Victory" came too easily, so the emotional pay-off from watching the egg's safe delivery is not quite as high as I would have hoped. Overall, the series has tended to handle the "realistic" elements of the story very much better than its "fantasy" elements, and the shortfall is very noticeable in this episode, I'm afraid.

That said, it has its bright spots. Chagum going through birth pains. That moment when Balsa throws the egg into the air. The poetic moment when Sagum's nerge comes to fetch the egg. Actually, given the near extinction of nerge, I had expected only that one particular nerge to turn up.

(By the way, it is interesting that the nerge instinctively catches objects in mid-air, be they stones thrown by playful princes, or a spirit egg thrown by a woman warrior.)

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Basically, the whole Meaning (tm) of this story (besides Chagum, Barsa and other character development) is how simple folk legends and traditions hold the wisdom of past ages that eludes even the most learned of men. All the secrets of Water Spirit and the Egg-eater were there in the open, preserved by common Yakoo folk through their songs and customs and traditions.

I would go so far as to say that the best "fantasy" worlds are created by professional academics. There was once a linguist who had a penchant for creating his own "make-believe" languages. This led him to think about the "histories" that had shaped those languages, and out of these histories, he created a mythology that eventually gave birth to Middle-Earth. This is one of the reasons why Tolkien's Middle Earth feels so authentic to many readers.

The world of Seirei no Moribito is "reverse engineered" in a similar way, this time however from an anthropologist's field experience of different folk cultures. To me, that's why the world and its folk traditions feel so plausible, because they are inspired by real-world examples.

A housemate of my mine, back in my college days, once wondered idly whether we've really made that much "progress" in a modern industrial society. Back then, the rest of us laughed it off as a silly notion, because if you look at it from a purely material perspective, modern technology and economics have certainly improved our lives in many ways.

But now, in hindsight, I think my housemate made a good philosophical point. Materially, we've gained a lot, true, but in other ways, we've lost a lot. Cultural traditions and folklore, national heritage, languages -- the "softer" aspects of our lives. Without realising it, we've lost much of these things in exchange for a consumer culture characterised by a spirit of secular, scientific inquiry that poos-poos old traditions as superstitious mumble-jumbo not worthy of scholarly study.

It's almost as though, in our pursuit of practical achievements, we've forgotten how to dream.

To me, Seirei no Moribito is an allegory of that modern trend we're all going through, whether we realise it or not.

One more episode to go, and it already feels like everyone is saying goodbye.

[MrProphet]

Hmm, saw the episode and I have to confess that I have completely failed to share this sense of disappointment all of you describe.

Spoiler for 25:

I mean... WHAT? You didn't like the Cthulhu Horde?

Honestly, with the way the plot has been developing, I fail to understand exactly how was it supposed to end other than the way it did.

As far as I'm concered, all the necessary elements were there. They had a big exciting battle, great music, a tense "final stand" sort of atmosphere.

I guess the big fight being not in the final episode is a bit unexpected for an action series, but so what? It wasn't rushed in the least, in fact the setup to the finale was rather prolonged in secretly establishing all the minutiae and small details.

I would honestly like to know, and this is not a rhetorical question, as to what things exactly were you expecting to happen, if this was underwhelming to you?

Seriously, do you require a person's death in order for climax to have the appropriate weight and meaningfulness? «WTF» is all I can really say to that!

[Saffire]

I would have to agree with Mr. Prophet.

Spoiler for 25:

Personally, Seirei no Moribito, with episode 3 to blame, I think. Has often misled people about what to expect about this show. After that, I remember being surprised at it's pacing--it never went the way I expected it to. But as time went on, I got used to the "Novel-like" pacing. And really, that's an end I would see happening in the novel, and think it plays out how it's supposed to in the finale.

I suppose I could see it be underwhelming for those expecting a more... o.0 action-y finale. But I learned a long time ago that Seirei wasn't really about action. About the character's really. So I enjoyed the finale. I can understand why people were underwhelmed, but I think it made sense the way it did. I don't think Seirei's always been 100% perfect in its execution, however, but I've really enjoyed it this season. And look forward to the last episode, too. ^_^

I really liked the ending bit though, with t he Nahji, and Balsa throwing the egg up for it to catch. I just smiled the whole time.

[sazan fan]

Depending on the last episode, there might be, and in my opinion there should be, a second season. Seirei no Moribito is basically the first novel of the Moribito Shirizu series. There are, including Seirei no Moribito, 10 volumes in total. I am sure that most of the people here already know that. However, since Seirei no Moribito was not tremendously popular, compared to Haruhi for example, the chance of a second season, is not as good as we all might hope. This is most likely due to the fact that Seirei no Moribito belongs in the 'fine art' category, and it require its viewers to possess a certain level of artistic appreciation. If you simply compare the grammar of the average post in this thread to the naruto thread for example, you will know what I am talking about.

Spoiler for Possible Second Season:

In the second book of the Moribito Shirizu series,Yami no Moribito (Guardian of Darkness), "Balsa returns to the country where she was born, hoping to clear her father and mentor's names." (Wikipedia) That pretty much sets up the premise of the entire second season.

[runpsicat]

Spoiler for 25:

I wasn't disappointed by the amount of action--if I were all about action I wouldn't even be watching this series--but the scriptwriting was trite and noticeably sloppy. I already mentioned some examples in my first post on episode 25, but to list a few more, it was incongruous to have Torogai blithely asserting that they can tarry for a short while to admire the dead La Lunga "b/c Chagum won't be in danger until dawn (given what Nanai's secrets record say)" when in the previous episode they were semi-panicking because they already only had just enough time to get to to real location where the egg will be born. They'd already been misled about the location; what shrewd shaman would indulge in a facile assumption like that at this stage in the game? Of course, thanks to their idling, they conveniently see the ursine Nyunga Ro Chaga (or however it's officially spelled) get ripped apart by a La Lunga, Torogai gets to comment on natural law and realize that wow they really should get going again--except at a walk because now Tanda has to go with them. The whole exchange between Tanda and the Hunters earlier on in the episode is also a noticeably clumsy attempt to pad time (yeah, as if he wouldn't have given them the flowers). I don't mind slow pacing, but I do mind noticeably sloppy pacing.

[MrProphet]

Spoiler for 25:

So, basically, what you're saying is that they were stalling and the way they were doing it was crude and obvious? Is that the main gripe?

[KiNA]

Is there any link with screencaps to compare the DVD version with the current TV version?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Spoiler for responses to Episode 25:

Originally Posted by MrProphet

So, basically, what you're saying is that they were stalling and the way they were doing it was crude and obvious? Is that the main gripe?

Why am I suddenly reminded of the Claymore forums where I had difficulty explaining my disappointment over the "action" that everyone else seemed to be enjoying.

Lacking subs, I'm taking runpsicat at his word at the moment, but I did notice the "stalling" since the previous episode (Ep 24). Episodes 24 and 25, in general, lacked a relative sense of urgency, in spite of the considerable danger that Chagum was now facing. It felt as though the characters spent a lot more time chatting about what to do, rather than actually doing anything at all. Most tellingly, it didn't seem as though Balsa did anything special to save Chagum's life, in spite of her vow to put her life on the line. There was barely any moment in Ep 24 and 25 where Balsa was directly threatened with harm, so in the end, her success seemed, well, a little bit too easy.

Contrast this to the pacing in Episodes 3, 6 and 13, which were packed with adrenaline. In those episodes, the various characters were fighting for their lives, and had barely any time to waste on little niceties. And then, there are the conversation-heavy episodes such as Episodes 8, 9 and 10, where the script created the "tension" that drove the viewer along from start to end.

When I look back on the series, I've noticed that in general, the scriptwriting tends to suffer slightly whenever the focus turns to the spirits of Nayug, for example, in Episodes 11 and 14. I didn't mind those episodes per se, but I do recall reading a few gripes about them on this thread, in particular gaguri's observation that the fantasy elements in this show didn't feel "fantastic" enough. So, on hindsight, I think it's fair to say Kenji Kamiyama's forte lies more in political/action thrillers (such as GitS: Stand Alone Complex) rather than fantasy.

===========

On a separate tangent, I like the way the series has been planned overall, where a number of early episodes provide foreshadowing of things to come. For example, Episode 11 demonstrated Tanda's spirit-walking abilities, which would eventually become important in Episodes 22, 24 and 25. There are the very subtle clues about the nerge's importance scattered throughout the series, and we eventually find out why. There is also that little touch where Chagum first saw the ursine Guardian Episode 23 -- we didn't know the significance of the sighting at the time, but now we do.

I've enjoyed this tremendously, because there are barely any moments in Seirei no Moribito where it felt as though characters were saved by contrived "plot twists" -- those plot twists tend to have been explained well beforehand, if we had paid attention. This is in sharp contrast to any number of shounen series, where the heroes tend to whip out some previously unrevealed super technique to defeat what would otherwise have been an unbeatable enemy -- such shows tend to annoy me in the long run, because it always feels as though the scriptwriter is playing the audience. Seirei no Moribito hardly ever makes me feel the same way.

I would very much like to add "never" to that assessment, but even this excellent show is not without its flaws. For example, now that we have seen how the entire story plays out, Episode 13 (Balsa vs Karbo) feels like a completely irrelevant filler episode. Then, there are the vague references to political intrigue, and to the supposed battle between water and fire spirits. These should also have been left out, because they've all turned out to be red herrings in the end.

Criticisms aside, I would still wish strongly for a second season. I really hope that the DVD sales are good enough to justify a continuation of Balsa's adventures.

===========

You know what would really make a superb ending for me? For Chagum to openly address Balsa as Mother before saying farewell.

(Not with the same honorary title that he uses to address his real mother of course, but perhaps with a more common term of affection, like "Oka-san", or something similar. )

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Kira_Naruto

I couldn't help but smile at the family in ep 22.. Daddy teach son to fight, mummy make dried fruits... So one happy family

You mean: Daddy teaches daughter how to fight. Don't forget the most important point in this gender reversal theory: Chagum is pregnant.

[NakedAngelX]

Spoiler for 2nd season:

So those of you that've read the novel, there's a chance for 2nd season! Hoooooray!!!! That's really goood news!!! Now just hope they won't cancel it saying they don't have enough funds... I'll definitely be buying the novel & DVD once its released in NA

[Anh_Minh]

Spoiler for ep 23:

Hee. They had flamethrowers.

Also, shouldn't "wood" be the element that trumps "earth"?

Also of note: Chagum's mix of childishness and adulthood is charming. "You should just sleep with her". Hee.

[SeijiSensei]

Another fine morning of having breakfast with Balsa....

Ep. 23 has to be the most gorgeous release in some time. I guess the animators were as happy to be out of that claustrophobic cave as our heroes.

I'm always struck by what a remarkable job I.G. has been doing with scenes that include water (fitting, I suppose, given the story). I knew I would be following this series as soon as I saw the rice paddies in ep. 1. In 23, we have the lovely sequence alongside the brook at about 8:30. Most animation of running water looks unconvincing but not here. They have the ripples, the reflections; it's all there. When Chagum dips his hand into the water, it's almost photo-realistic. Soon thereafter there's a brief pan across the lake with the water lilies. This could have been just a throw-away shot, or not included at all, but no, we have the reflected sky and clouds scattered in with the lily pads.

A few other random observations:

The play of light and shadow on the characters' faces has also caught my attention throughout this show. In this episode it was especially striking in the scene where the four of them are walking to the lake.

The sound track was also impressive in this episode, especially the scene where the soldiers shout their acceptance of the order to move out, and the rattling of their spears. It certainly does sound like hundreds of men, even though it's probably just a few Foley artists and a lot of looping.

Balsa always seems to refer to Chagum as "Chaguma" on the audio track. With so many other names ending in "a," including his brother's, perhaps that's his real name?

Spoiler for ep 23:

What's the story with the archers? Is the Emperor still intending to kill Balsa? I thought we're all on the same side now. Is the Emperor still feeling the need to enforce traditions like, if you look at an Imperial, you must die? All those soldiers at the lake would be at risk if that's still true.