(L+CR) selector infected WIXOSS

[Haak]

This show is such a damn tease. Here I was eagerly anticipating for the battle between Akira and Ruko so Akira could get the most karmic surprise of her life, and they seemed to be building up to it as well but then they just totally screw me over.

I also think I finally have a better handle on this series now. Where as the last episode was incredibly difficult to get through thanks to being so overblown and melodramatic, now I'm starting to realise that the comedy behind it may be intentional after all. I was previously under the impression that it was actually trying it's best to make me feel the tense darkness but now I understand that it's really just trying to direct that at its younger audience whilst acknowledging it's almost self-parody levels of SRSBSNS to the older audience. I loled so hard when Ruko's grandmother commented on how good Yuzuki was with a knife and that scene when the teacher gets bullied by a bunch of middle school girls for his beard is something that I could only interpret as comedy - a knowing wink to the audience that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It's somewhat of a relief to know that I can just sit back and enjoy this as popcorn entertainment. Now I can just enjoy the ride.

[Esclair]

That whole tower/tetris thing, I wonder if it's supposed to be something like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Kf5r_JMAo#t=26

Anyways, the 'revelation' about Tama could be taken in 2 ways. The first and more obvious one is that Tama is 'special', but doesn't realize it herself. Another interpretation is that there's a relationship between LRIGs and the Selectors that is hidden to the audience/selector that would make it unfeasible for the LRIG to get too attached to the selector, however, Tama doesn't seem to know this, hence why Tama says she's Ruuko's friend while Hanayo comments that Tama doesn't understand what she is. There's also the possibility that Ruuko's a repressed psychopath based on her flashback.

Also, I wonder if there's anything more significant about Iona's comment regarding Ruuko not having a wish and participating in Selector battles as blasphemy. Maybe her lack of a wish can destroy the system? Or maybe it causes the LRIG to grow in a certain way that's not preferable to the status quo?

[Triple_R]

I was hoping for the exact same moment that Haak was, so not getting it was also a huge tease to me.

Still, Episode 4 was a pretty good episode, and the vaguely cliffhanger moment at the end really was pretty effective. In a way, I'm actually glad they delayed the Ruko/Akira match, because as cathartic as that may have been, what happened instead was pretty interesting. It seems like Iona can read minds even without the use of a LRIG. That's pretty amazing, and I hope this ability of her's is explained/justified in some fashion in a later episode.

As for Yuzuki... I like her character, and I get where she's coming from in this episode, but she projects a bit too much. Just because Yuzuki and Hitoe couldn't handle Akira doesn't mean that Ruko couldn't. Yuzuki and Hitoe each have certain personality traits that make them very susceptible to trash-talking, but I think Ruko would be harder to unnerve there. Plus, these girls should be smart enough to realize that Ruko's lack of a wish is the perfect trap for Akira. I mean, come on now, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.


I'm going to reply to Kazu-kun in spoiler space below in order to save space.

Spoiler for Akira/Kyubey discussion:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Because that's the only thing it's done. If it had greater mind reading abilities Akira would have used them, since she has no reason to hold back.

Not necessarily. The wish-based mind-reading was clearly enough to accomplish Akira's aims, so there's not even a pragmatic basis for pushing for more mind-reading. It would arguably just be wasting time.

Intellectually speaking, a computer (and QB) could only understand that we humans have this sort of value system, but they would never be able to understand why...

Sure they could. Some moral systems are understandable at a purely logical or pragmatic level. Utilitarianism would be an obvious example of this. A good chunk of Kantian moral philosophy is also something I could see Kyubey grasping, even if he didn't agree with it.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica spoilers:

Besides, Kyubey clearly understands human morality given his ability to make obvious guilt-trip ploys against those he's trying to contract with.

So I think your argument pertaining to Kyubey is weak and off-base.

The closest thing to an insult she said is that Yuzuki's incestuous feelings are "ero-poi" which was translated to dirty but actually means sexy/erotic. She also said the word "incest" but that's a fact.

That's incorrect.

After having her LRIG mind-read Hitoe's wish, Akira starting laughing mockingly, and then mocked Hitoe.

"We've got a loner here! Can I get your autograph?!"

That's a clear-cut insult. Just because it's done through dripping sarcasm doesn't make it any less of an insult. I mean, you'd have to be denser than your densest harem male lead to not see the implied insult here.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Haak

This show is such a damn tease. Here I was eagerly anticipating for the battle between Akira and Ruko so Akira could get the most karmic surprise of her life, and they seemed to be building up to it as well but then they just totally screw me over.

I also think I finally have a better handle on this series now. Where as the last episode was incredibly difficult to get through thanks to being so overblown and melodramatic, now I'm starting to realise that the comedy behind it may be intentional after all. I was previously under the impression that it was actually trying it's best to make me feel the tense darkness but now I understand that it's really just trying to direct that at its younger audience whilst acknowledging it's almost self-parody levels of SRSBSNS to the older audience. I loled so hard when Ruko's grandmother commented on how good Yuzuki was with a knife and that scene when the teacher gets bullied by a bunch of middle school girls for his beard is something that I could only interpret as comedy - a knowing wink to the audience that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It's somewhat of a relief to know that I can just sit back and enjoy this as popcorn entertainment. Now I can just enjoy the ride.

So it's sort of like Attack on Titan with it being super serious but intentionally comedic the whole time?

I'm still reluctant about this series. It says Mari Okada did series composition in the credits. With the recent Nagi Asu I'm not sure I'm ready for another Okadacoaster so soon. My heart's fragile.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by anonfr

So it's sort of like Attack on Titan with it being super serious but intentionally comedic the whole time?

Honestly, I have my doubts about Haak's take on the show.

This show is overblown and melodramatic... because Okada's writing in general tends to be overblown and melodramatic. That doesn't mean it's all one big joke.

I don't think that the melodrama in this is any less serious than it is in Nagi no Asukara or in the BRS TV series or in AnoHana or in HSI (all of the above being Okada-wrote works, in whole or in part). I don't see this show as being all that more melodramatic than Okada's standard fare.


That being said, the moment when the girls insulted their teacher's face? Yeah, that's intentional comedy. It's meant to make you laugh moreso than anything, and I myself chuckled at it (especially given the teacher's reaction to it). But a generally serious show can still have its lighthearted moments.

[Arkeus]

I honestly describe this show as Madoka/Yu-gi-Oh fusion.

I mean, really. The LRIG are obviously the girls' souls, and Ruko is /totally/ a different take on Madoka, Yuzuki on Sayaka, Hitoe on Homura, Akira on Kyouko and Iona on Homura again.

[Key Board]

Hitoe want to make friends, but she is afraid of actually doing it?. Instead, using card games as an outlet
Akira clearly has a complex about Iona, but she is afraid of confronting Iona. Instead, she uses a card game as an outlet.
Yuzuki wants incest but .. well. I guess she can't do it directly. Ok, she has an excuse. Anyway, she uses card games as an outlet

I see pattern

It kinda ties it to what I said last week

Originally Posted by Key Board

Here's my own take on this.
Everyone needs a personal devil, because blaming it on something else is much more easier than blaming it on yourself.
I think characters of this show needs the card game to address their own problem, because they are unable to face it directly. They need some kind of proxy. They need an unrelated goal.. a scapegoat. A devil to strike down.
Does Hitoe really need the card game to make friends? Or is the cardgame simply giving her a concrete non-related goal to address her own problems, because confronting it directly is too threatening?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

I honestly describe this show as Madoka/Yu-gi-Oh fusion.

I mean, really. The LRIG are obviously the girls' souls, and Ruko is /totally/ a different take on Madoka, Yuzuki on Sayaka, Hitoe on Homura, Akira on Kyouko and Iona on Homura again.

I'm not sure on the last two, but I definitely see the first three.

There are significant differences even with those first three, but there's also key similarities in those three cases.

So yeah, Madoka/Yu-Gi-Oh fusion sounds reasonably accurate to me. At the moment, I'd say that Akira takes from the Yu-Gi-Oh side. She's the Seto Kaiba of the show.

[Solace]

Guess they weren't being subtle about using the name Tama, were they?

Originally Posted by Haak

This show is such a damn tease. Here I was eagerly anticipating for the battle between Akira and Ruko so Akira could get the most karmic surprise of her life, and they seemed to be building up to it as well but then they just totally screw me over.

I think the writing played this up really well. I too thought they'd battle this episode (or at least start to), and it strongly builds up to it and then suddenly changes gears in a completely different direction, which rolls nicely into some last minute but important information that echoes things already established.

It is a bit frustrating that things aren't explained more, but I vastly prefer this method of storytelling compared to Day Break Illusion's (and others) cockblocking "We know everything but won't tell you anything because we're dicks" character plot blocks. At least here the only primary suspension of disbelief you need is to ignore the fact that these girls are taking the appearance of magical talking card girls that promise to grant wishes in a creepy game as a completely normal thing.

As for the episode itself, I'm a bit mixed. There's some poorly used coincidental "character appears from nowhere" moments, a continued reemphasizing that Ruko and Tama are not normal even by Selector standards, more hinting that the card avatars know (and are hiding) something the girls don't know yet, and this general feeling that the story needs to break the status quo something fierce.

Like, something crazy has to happen in the next battle, or something along those lines. Otherwise it's going to feel a lot like Day Break, where the characters are dragged along by the plot which meanders until the end without concluding much.

As you guys can tell, I'm comparing this mainly to Day Break Illusion, mostly because of the general mood of the story. Three episodes in, I don't think this compares to Madoka very closely (dark thematics, perhaps). But that story veered sharply by this point. It's somewhat like Black Rock Shooter, but that's probably just the Okada melodrama bleeding through. And while there are card game elements (obviously to sell the card game), there's nothing terribly in depth about the cards themselves or their strategies. In fact the mechanics of any of the card battles (normal and selector) are pretty vague. So I'm not sensing the "it's a card game battle story" ala Yugioh here either.

[Birdway]

I wonder if they're really trying to sell the card games to begin with because they're doing it wrong .

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Birdway

I wonder if they're really trying to sell the card games to begin with because they're doing it wrong .

I have to agree with this. You do get slight hints here and there of the show trying to sell the game, but it's almost completely overwhelmed by the more general dark foreboding of the show. Even if I was so inclined to get back into playing these sorts of card games, there's not a lot in the first few episodes that would entice me to actually go out and buy this WIXOSS game.

I mean, it works well enough as a basic narrative vehicle for the real story, but it's not particularly interesting in and of itself. There's little sense of "coolness" there, of "I want to pull a trap card move on my friends!" or "Wow, I really want these specific cards named the Dark Magician, the Blue-Eyes White Dragon, and Exodia!"

[Birdway]

The series needs to improve this(the card game part) somehow or else this series will be judged for the characters and their interactions rather than the game itself, which is the reason to be of the anime. Other series that are not related to merchandising ends being more into marketing despite not being related to such products at all (Code Geass and Pizza Hut )

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Birdway

The series needs to improve this(the card game part) somehow or else this series will be judged for the characters and their interactions rather than the game itself, which is the reason to be of the anime. Other series that are not related to merchandising ends being more into marketing despite not being related to such products at all (Code Geass and Pizza Hut )

I think the card game is doing pretty well. The starter decks are sold out for a few of the colors already.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Esclair

I think the card game is doing pretty well. The starter decks are sold out for a few of the colors already.

The game how is portrayed in the anime isn't engaging, personally I wouldn't buy a game like that from what's been show so far in 3 episodes.

[cleo]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Hitoe want to make friends, but she is afraid of actually doing it?. Instead, using card games as an outlet
Akira clearly has a complex about Iona, but she is afraid of confronting Iona. Instead, she uses a card game as an outlet.
Yuzuki wants incest but .. well. I guess she can't do it directly. Ok, she has an excuse. Anyway, she uses card games as an outlet

I see pattern

It kinda ties it to what I said last week

I agree. They all have their insecurities etc. to overcome before they can get their wish.
But Ruko has no wish, nothing to overcome, so she and Tama evolve straight after their 1st win, and are on their way to become eternal girl before anyone else. And it seems their going to fullfill Tama's wish: Motto Battaru!
But AFAIK Tama is the only newborn, so I guess Ruko's role is to grow by educating Tama.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Birdway

I wonder if they're really trying to sell the card games to begin with because they're doing it wrong .

You're missing the bigger picture. It's not an advertisement, it's a product placement. Subtle difference. The job is not to directly pitch the product to you like Yugioh would, but to raise general awareness by simply making the product visible. Yugioh is all about the product: what the cards do, how the rules work, special cards and rules (dramatized in a cartoon world of course), but WIXOSS is really not about the game as an actual game at all. The name is used but it could really be any made up card game and the story would not change at all.

This is a great time to bring up my favorite ironic product placement movie scene:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/351nnBDxx00

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[HandofFate]

lol, it seems everyone in the series acts so dumb. Even the nameless school girls cornering Yuzuki and Ruko liking like yuzuka. So dumb, and lol when Akira just tells them to buzz off. What a bunch of tools.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Solace

You're missing the bigger picture. It's not an advertisement, it's a product placement.

Product placements work when they're tied to unrelated things - Like putting Pizza Hut into Code Geass. That way a product can tap into the popularity of the unrelated thing.

But this show is directly related to the product, so it's only natural to want to see more than just mere product placement.

I mean, this WIXOSS product is a major narrative vehicle for the entire show. It shouldn't be that hard to really showcase a few cards and make the game look cool to buy into, play, and collect.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Product placements work when they're tied to unrelated things - Like putting Pizza Hut into Code Geass. That way a product can tap into the popularity of the unrelated thing.

But this show is directly related to the product, so it's only natural to want to see more than just mere product placement.

I mean, this WIXOSS product is a major narrative vehicle for the entire show. It shouldn't be that hard to really showcase a few cards and make the game look cool to buy into, play, and collect.

That depends. I think the show is doing alright selling people on the game. It's clear that the target audience isn't going to fall for the half hour advertisement that is your typical cartoon, so it's probably not a good idea to beat people over the head with mechanics. At the same time, it has introduced some mechanics (It mentioned an important card, for example), emphasized that the product has depth (learning all the cards for better strategy), that each color is unique (more strategy!), and that it's aimed at someone older than "your younger sibling".

But I'm certainly no expert on how products are marketed in Japan, especially based off of one anime that seems at best tangentially related to it. So maybe I'm way off base on all of this.

Still, as mentioned above, the decks are selling well. If that's the anime helping or not, that's anyone's guess. I'm sure it's not the only form of advertising the decks have been given.

All that said, we're also only a handful of episodes into the story. Right now it's mostly establishment and early development. We haven't really begun to get into any battles that matter.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Honestly, I have my doubts about Haak's take on the show.

This show is overblown and melodramatic... because Okada's writing in general tends to be overblown and melodramatic. That doesn't mean it's all one big joke.

I don't think that the melodrama in this is any less serious than it is in Nagi no Asukara or in the BRS TV series or in AnoHana or in HSI (all of the above being Okada-wrote works, in whole or in part). I don't see this show as being all that more melodramatic than Okada's standard fare.

Given the subject matter of the show, I think the melodrama here is significantly worse than any show Okada has done thus far which is part of my point: It's a show about a children's card game. The drama is of the same "over the top theatrics" type, but my point is that I'm seeing quite a few hints in the show that give of a sense of self awareness about the SRSBSNS levels. And I don't think Nagi no Asukara, Ano Hana, HSI or even Black Rock Shooter had any equivalent to the constant in your face "THIS IS A DARK STORY" atmosphere that it feels the need to permeate.

I'm not saying it's all one big joke. I'm just saying that it's being dramatic for the sake of it's younger audience whilst giving a few winks to the older audience.

Originally Posted by anonfr

So it's sort of like Attack on Titan with it being super serious but intentionally comedic the whole time?

Attack on Titan? No idea what you're talking about I'm afraid. From what I recall, the show had some comedy moments but I think it overall drew a clear line between its comedy and hamfisted drama.

I can't really think of any exact equivalent but if we were to draw comparisons, I suppose the AKB0048 anime would be the most similar to this.