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Old 2014-02-20, 14:18   Link #2521
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Unlike Tsumugu, however, Miuna doesn't stand a chance to get with the person she loves.
He doesn't stand a chance either. He's still the same as always, running away from everything that troubles him. From his mother, from Chisaki (note how he leaves the house the moments she gets home!). With that attitude he has no chance, and he knows it. Yet, he's unable to change... like everyone else.

Manaka waking up won't change anything. It will only make Miuna and Chisaki more jealous of her, and more "in love" with him. They're pathetic, and so is Tsumugu.
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:26   Link #2522
tezu
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
He doesn't stand a chance either. He's still the same as always, running away from everything that troubles him. From his mother, from Chisaki (note how he leaves the house the moments she gets home!). With that attitude he has no chance, and he knows it. Yet, he's unable to change... like everyone else.
Actually, I thought he was deliberately dawdling just so he could go greet Chisaki. That's why he apologized to the professor for making him wait afterwards.
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:29   Link #2523
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by tezu View Post
Actually, I thought he was deliberately dawdling just so he could go greet Chisaki.
Yeah, and in the end he didn't deliver much of a greeting. He's being distant, or at least evasive. That's why the professor scolded him. He's running away.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2014-02-20 at 14:44.
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:35   Link #2524
MCAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
People were predicting the show would age Miuna to a point she'd be a viable love interest as far back as episode four or five. How can it be contrived if it were that heavily foreshadowed?
That's the thing. It was never foreshadowed by the show itself. If a time skip was foreshadowed though, it still doesn't change the fact that setting Miuna up for the exact same age is a helluva coincidence.


Quote:
But the explanation of why mixed-race children don't have ena had enough holes in it that people were predicting that Miuna or Tsugumu would gain ena at some point. So again, it was foreshadowed, and what happened to Miuna and how it relates to Manaka shedding ena has been set up as a major mystery for the rest of the series, so it can't be dismissed as a contrivance.
Again my first statement applies. Something having plot holes does not have anything to do with foreshadowing. Now if the show discussed the plot hole (Even for five seconds) that would be a different matter. Anyway, if they answer the mystery in at least some sufficient way then I'll take it back. But at the moment its nothing more than a way to get Miuna into the plot and relevant because the writers couldn't think of a natural way to do it themselves. Again the show itself needs to make its characters move the plot and not the other way around. Ignoring this is just missing the point I am trying to make.

Also just because people predicted things would happen does not make it a natural occurrence either.

Last edited by MCAL; 2014-02-20 at 15:09.
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:48   Link #2525
kido22
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the one who will suffer the most will be Miuna.
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:52   Link #2526
tezu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah, and in the end he didn't deliver much of a greeting. He's being distant, or at least evasive. That's way the professor scolded him. He's running away.
It's true that his personality doesn't help him much with Chisaki and that opening up a little wouldn't hurt (he did open a bit in front of Miuna, though, because they're both "outsiders"). But Tsumugu himself already said that he wanted to move forward again last episode, so I'm confident something WILL change after Manaka's reentrance.

And then there's poor Kaname, who didn't avoid the issue and reminded Chisaki twice of his confession. Look how far he's gotten with that...five years later and she still hasn't come up with an answer
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Old 2014-02-20, 14:59   Link #2527
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by tezu View Post
But Tsumugu himself already said that he wanted to move forward again last episode, so I'm confident something WILL change
Yeah, and what did he do about it in this episode? Nothing. And he's no even in the preview for next episode, so...

I'm confident too, that nothing is going to change.
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Old 2014-02-20, 15:17   Link #2528
tezu
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah, and what did he do about it in this episode? Nothing. And he's no even in the preview for next episode, so...

I'm confident too, that nothing is going to change.
You know that Manaka wasn't awake until the end of this episode, right? And with the mini screentime he's got, his development can only take place in the course of several episodes. But maybe you're right, since you possess the ability to tell what happens in the next episode by the preview alone. I heard Tsumugu talking in the preview, but he's probably not going to appear anyway because he's not in the pictures If you're so confident that nothing is going to change, then I start to wonder what the whole series is about.
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Old 2014-02-20, 15:34   Link #2529
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by tezu View Post
But maybe you're right, since you possess the ability to tell what happens in the next episode by the preview alone.
You would be surprised.

Anyway. I still think that nothing will change. Let's just wait and see. It's going to be fun....
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Old 2014-02-20, 16:10   Link #2530
Haak
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^ Well you've certainly called it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
And there was never any indication that Ena can be transferred from one person to another. In fact, the fact that it was mentioned that Ena could not transfer from one generation to the other is proof.
But we did know that the Sea God can grant land-dwellers Ena, so this shouldn't be a problem. That is unless you were under the impression that the original sacrificial bride lived just long enough to marry the Sea God and produce offspring before drowning to death. XP

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Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
Anyway, if they answer the mystery in at least some sufficient way then I'll take it back. But at the moment its nothing more than a way to get Miuna into the plot and relevant because the writers couldn't think of a natural way to do it themselves.
Miuna's Ena reveal has only been relevant for one episode and even then that particular episode foreshadowed that Miuna's new Ena had far deeper implications on the plot than to consider it contrived (If Miuna had gained Ena and they left it at that then it would have been contrived but the narrative here very clearly isn't leaving it at that and wants us to question why she was given Ena). There have been plenty of episodes (including this one) that have focused on Miuna which had little to nothing to do with her Ena. Just because you don't consider it interesting does not make it irrelevant. There's a difference between the two and this episode should hopefully spell that out. Saying it's not interesting is a perfectly valid viewpoint. Saying it's not relevant, however, is a complete misinterpretation of the narrative. Miuna's unrequited love for Hikari is no less relevant than the triangle between Tsumugu, Chisaki and Kaname. This is a character driven drama: The characters are the plot.
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Old 2014-02-20, 16:48   Link #2531
leorodri100
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well let's try to forget the hopless in love chisaki and try to fcous on manaka finally waking up i really want to see her interactions with hikari, i knew she would come back, she hasn't told hikari what she feels since she became a ojoshi-sama and we still don't know if what she told the sea slug had a positive response, but judging from the pendant in the last seconds of the OP i would say it was a positive response.
i hope it was a hikari-related confession but that's just the shipping me speaking it migh as well be tsumugu-related well i'll be damned then. but for now i'm just glad manaka is awake, i really hope miuna won't try to push herself into the shioshishio kiddos group again, i don't know why i just can't like her character that much...i don't know she kinda reminds me of a kirino, that hasn't given up on her childhood crush or even anaru, then again i was okay with them...
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Old 2014-02-20, 17:07   Link #2532
justpassingby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post

Again, this doesn't stop things from being forced.
I said it is not forced. Now what? More power to me?
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Old 2014-02-20, 17:29   Link #2533
kido22
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this time the god of the sea will flood lands.
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Old 2014-02-20, 17:49   Link #2534
Arya
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Very good episode. I liked it, even Miuna And finally Manaka woke up. I missed her. Now I'm very curious to see if finally things will really start to move. Chisaki in the preview didn't give me that vibe anyways. We'll have to deal with her jealousy again, and Miuna, first.
And given the habit this show has to never move on of a inch I fear the show will indulge even on the doubt about Manaka's feelings toward Tsumugu. I'm really curious to know how Tsumugu and Manaka talk ended just before the time skip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah, and in the end he didn't deliver much of a greeting. He's being distant, or at least evasive. That's why the professor scolded him. He's running away.
Yep, you are right. He is separating himself from her. But I guess it's understandable. The shioshio's group seems to be kinda difficult to get into. Miuna is trying but without success. Tsumugu never get into it even before the time skip, he was an outsider, with them and with everyone, so I think he somehow knows/fears he will be left out again. He implied it talking to Miuna. So he is trying to protect himself from the hit that will come. Akari said how Chisaki has been more present lately, that means less time shared with him. Basically she is distancing herself from him also. Count that he is in a different position that Miuna who will always have a bond with Hikari and so with the gang. Tsumugu has not this kind of bond.
Obviously this is strictly related to whatever his back history is. And until the show won't explore that we are doomed to see zero development from him, as much as his time screen, but that's not a news. And since there are some steps yet to do, like deal with Manaka, deal with Chisaki feelings, deal with Miuna feelings, deal with Kaname feelings, deal with akira feelings, deal with whoever feelings, we have to wait a few more episodes to see that, like ten or fifteen more episodes.
Btw he apparently will not even go to meet Manaka. And I forgot him calling her in that way, really did he back then?

This is to say that you are being far too pessimistic, because the way Okada is concealing him and dragging for so long him and Chisaki's relationship tells me that he will change and so Chisaki, hopefully.
On a side note apparently everyone knows about his feelings for Chisaki. Apart the sensei that apparently got it by himself, even Miuna didn't seem surprised by him talking about Chisaki in that terms.
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Old 2014-02-20, 18:33   Link #2535
MCAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
But we did know that the Sea God can grant land-dwellers Ena, so this shouldn't be a problem. That is unless you were under the impression that the original sacrificial bride lived just long enough to marry the Sea God and produce offspring before drowning to death. XP
Except what they were implying is that Manaka herself was the person to give Miuna Ena. Otherwise her being able to hear Manaka's crackling ena wouldn't make sense. Again, if they explain this properly, then I'll change my mind.

Quote:
Miuna's Ena reveal has only been relevant for one episode and even then that particular episode foreshadowed that Miuna's new Ena had far deeper implications on the plot than to consider it contrived (If Miuna had gained Ena and they left it at that then it would have been contrived but the narrative here very clearly isn't leaving it at that and wants us to question why she was given Ena). There have been plenty of episodes (including this one) that have focused on Miuna which had little to nothing to do with her Ena. Just because you don't consider it interesting does not make it irrelevant. There's a difference between the two and this episode should hopefully spell that out. Saying it's not interesting is a perfectly valid viewpoint. Saying it's not relevant, however, is a complete misinterpretation of the narrative. Miuna's unrequited love for Hikari is no less relevant than the triangle between Tsumugu, Chisaki and Kaname. This is a character driven drama: The characters are the plot.
I think what is happening is that our definition of "contrived" is slightly different. Your definition is that if the events aren't important and kept that way it is contrived (Correct me if I am wrong). While my definition is that this cause was unexplained and out of the blue and therefore is contrived. For me its a simple cause and effect. The cause was unnatural and forced and the effect is natural and makes sense. But because the natural was caused by an unnatural, the well has been poisoned and the whole thing ends up contrived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
I said it is not forced. Now what? More power to me?
Will now go into more specifics.

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Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Sea God's willing. Or in this case, Okada. When the staffs are aiming for fantasy settings (cour 2), these things bound to happen. Hardly Miuna's faults.
That's missing the point. It doesn't matter if it's Miuna's fault or not, what matters is that its the writers fault. The writer is the center of the forced and contrived problem.

Quote:
For serious answer, it was a the same shipyard in ep 5 (dolicon). Let's go with Murphy's Law, and that the crane was bound to fall.
Murphey's law is that what ever could go wrong -- will go wrong. Again, I don't see how things going wrong has anything to do with the convenience of when, where, etc of the crane falling.

Quote:
The pushing was definitely not convenient, unless you mean her backing up was not forced. And why must be the sea behind her be frozen, where there are other parts of the sea that are not?
I was trying to make my point more concrete than necessary. The problem still is the crane conveniently falling so Miuna could conveniently fall into the water.

Quote:
And you know that Deus ex Machina can be literally means God from The Device, so what's wrong with Sea God (or whatever the entity is) giving her ena?
Again I fail to see how this contradicts anything. Say if I did accept the dues ex machina, does that make it any less of a deus ex machina? There's also the fact that it is being implied (Subject to change) that Manaka is the one giving out the ena.

Last edited by MCAL; 2014-02-20 at 18:56.
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Old 2014-02-20, 18:39   Link #2536
Stall_19
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Man, if I didn't know better I would have said Manaka was just faking being asleep and couldn't suppress her desire to scold him. I mean look at her face at the end, doesn't that just say "Oops, I'm suppose to be still asleep" That obviously isn't the case but it would have been amusing if that was one long troll.
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Old 2014-02-20, 18:44   Link #2537
Pablete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You would be surprised.

Anyway. I still think that nothing will change. Let's just wait and see. It's going to be fun....
I'm with you, most of the predictions were logical and what you said makes sense.
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Old 2014-02-20, 18:53   Link #2538
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
This is to say that you are being far too pessimistic
I think you mean realistic. Really, if you think we'll see some actual development there, good for you. I just don't see it.

After 20 episodes, nothing has changed. What is Okada going to do? Rush everything in the last episode. I'd like to see that. It would be such a glorious train-wreck. But I don't think so. I think the series we'll end as it started. If anything changed, is that Hikari isn't as much a brat as he was in the beginning. Everything else states the same, perhaps even Manaka's feelings toward Tsumugu....

But whatever. Let's agree to disagree for now and see what happens.
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Old 2014-02-20, 20:08   Link #2539
Moeterum
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
What is Okada going to do? Rush everything in the last episode. I'd like to see that. It would be such a glorious train-wreck.
There are still six more episodes left, that gives her plenty of time to tie everything up in a satisfying way.

But to be honest, I agree with you. I don't think anyone will end up being in an official relationship with anyone else. She's probably not going to even solve any of the love triangles and just leave it as it is
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Old 2014-02-20, 20:47   Link #2540
DragoonKain3
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I dunno, Okada has ALWAYS been one to largely resolve the love polygons she sets out to make, either it be clear cut with actual relations forming, or just implied that certain couples will get together in the end. All of her originals, she never left the romantic relationships hanging. (Not gonna lie, it's one of the reasons why I worship the ground she walks on)

So yeah, I imagine there's going to be a lot of butthurt posts by the end. And with Manaka waking up, going by Okada's track record that pretty much seals the deal, barring her getting removed again.
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