AnimeSuki Forums

Betteroffer · 2009-09-12, 20:51

Great job on the last two updates. In the farewell between Ohgi and Kallen, I particularly like how you handled all of Kallen's facial expressions. My favorite is the second panel of the second page. Her face really seemed to soften when she was watching the family.

For the very last panel on page 4, did you intend for her face to seem something of a mix between determined and insane, because that's how it came across to me.

Bonzo · 2009-09-12, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

For the very last panel on page 4, did you intend for her face to seem something of a mix between determined and insane, because that's how it came across to me.

Exactly, she need time to recover some equilibrium.

Bonzo · 2009-09-15, 17:03

Mazryonh · 2009-09-16, 16:34

Though there are still a few errors in the English in this version, I must say I like the result.

I'll admit that some of the suggestions I gave you were a bit wordy, but maybe in the future when you plan on making new drawings for your comics--whether you make new panels for your current comics or when making drawings for your OAV--you can try to scan in only the lineart instead of adding it in pencil.

That way, you could give one of us the raw files with the lineart only along with the edited English script, so we could then make new dialogue boxes through photoshop that aren't quite as cramped.

Good work as always!

Bonzo · 2009-09-16, 18:52

And chapter 23 will be more long of three pages.

However, if you want start to analyze the english text of chp23, go for it. I finish the art correction of first six pages already.

azul120 · 2009-09-20, 20:49

Have you ever thought of having Lelouch ever being relieved from his exile?

Bonzo · 2009-09-20, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by azul120

Have you ever thought of having Lelouch ever being relieved from his exile?

Well, Lelouch seems happy after 8 years, but he's trying to be it for Kallen.
Inside him, it's a hell instead.

azul120 · 2009-09-21, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzo

Well, Lelouch seems happy after 8 years, but he's trying to be it for Kallen.
Inside him, it's a hell instead.

Oops, I meant to say relieved of his exile. As in granted a pardon, supposedly after someone came forward with statements saying that Lelouch was trying to help out in a roundabout way.

Bonzo · 2009-09-21, 02:56

How to explain...

Lelouch decided from the beginning to die, but at last he failed and everybody stopped him about that idea, to live for him was a torture, a too much heavy weight on his shoulders.

To live in exile physically ruined and mentally destroyed at last is the worst punishment for him.
In the trial he declared to cut EVERY contact with the people know he's alive (nunnally, suzaku, cornelia, etc...) he must stop to exist for everybody.

However, at last after years of effort, Kallen success to comfort him a little...Lelouch tried to hold on for Kallen, for a guilt feeling and the fact his death equal to kill Kallen's soul.
But just a REAL responsability could to fix something, then Kallen lied to Lelouch on purpose about after morning pill, etc..she was sure only a baby could to change something and she had the will to become mum from the beginning.
In fact with the babies something changed and Lelouch finded a little happyness, but his guilt feeling will never leave him in peace.

Mazryonh · 2009-09-21, 12:09

It may seem a bit harsh, but I like how you made Lelouch go through his own personal hell for a long time before he finally opened up to Kallen. It makes him seem a lot more human--only the most heinous of psychopaths or sociopaths would revel in all the wanton carnage and destruction Zero's revolution caused. Having him be haunted by the ghosts of the deeds he's done and suffer attacks of conscience constantly makes Lelouch a lot less of a monster. I've a few suggestions I'll send to you later as to how to help make such a process even better, though.

I think you're going to have to go into more detail as to how Kallen came to the decision to become a mother, though. For one thing, she doesn't have much in the way of good role models for motherhood. Her own biological mother and stepmother weren't very "motherly" most of the time. As for Lelouch's mother . . . I don't know what to say. Kallen's not the kind to go about making rash decisions on something as important as whether or not the child she'll conceive with Lelouch will have a good family and home to enter the world with, and I think revealing her thought processes from the moment she looks at her pregnancy test coming back positive to when she talks about it to a distraught Lelouch who's only just beginning to regain his will to live and certainly isn't going to take the news of becoming a father very well (after all, he doesn't have good role models for fatherhood either!). Could make for some very revealing drama.

Kallen wasn't very good at being "traditionally feminine" either. Her "Kallen Stadtfeld" persona, as you put it in a later side-story, was just a mask, a convenient lie presented to the unsuspecting world as a cover-up for her terrorist activities. Lelouch knows how to cook, but as a mental wreck he couldn't teach Kallen, not to mention his blindness. I'm not sure just how much caregiving experience Kallen got from taking care of her drug-addicted mother, but I bet she would feel very much out of her element trying to take care of one she loves (especially one who doesn't want to be saved), since she was pretty much out there to kick ass and take names, not preserve and sustain the lives of others.

Then there's this great passage from another user about how Lelouch becomes a house-husband.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Kallen was quite slovenly and hid weights under her furniture. Can you imagine Lelouch trying to pick those up when cleaning?

Lelouch (panting): "Wh-what kind of girl lifts one-handed 90 pound weights?!"
Kallen: "Sweety...those are 06 pound weights..."
Lelouch: "...I've lost all confidence as a man."
Kallen: "Well you look better than me in most of my dresses so-"
Lelouch: "First, you're not helping, and second we promised we'd never speak of that again!"

Bonzo · 2009-09-21, 19:01

Kallen always boast to be able to make everything if she want.

However if you look the fact with a realistic eye, you will understand well, example, my sister always refuse to learn about homejobs from my mother, etc...now she's married and she obliged to learn how to manage a house from zero.

About your theory Kallen isn't good for that kind of responsability maybe is the same thought Ougi and Kaguya had, they tried to persuade Kallen don't do it.
But this is just the standard idea we spoke about anime characters, then that's their character/behaviour, they can't change, etc...but I'm evolving the characters like a real human being can evolve.
Kallen sacrified her future for take care of a disabled Lelouch, nobody will help her, she must do it alone, then she must change, to learn, to evolve, to become a new woman with new responsabilities.

With the new part on chp 23 everything will be more clear, however about Kallen's wish to become a mum, it's a simple psycholigical evolution.

Kallen's life was good in the beginning, and in 2010 everything fall down, then a life dark, in the suffering, a fake life for to cover the truth, with just 2 goal:

1)to continue naoto's dream
2)to build a new happyness for her and her mother.

But the result of these goals is she lost EVERYTHING she wanted to protect, and thanks her mother farewell letter, she understood all the pain and the suffering she did like zero's henchman.

A person can learn a lot from her personal pain, and after a life with that kind of suffering, feelings like pity, love, kindness...will can become more strong.

Thanks C.C "suggestions" Kallen married the big responsability to take care and change lelouch, but the first step is to change herself.
She's alone, without a family, then to build a similar responsability is a goal and the bigger trial for her.
To create a new life is the only and best way to test her wish to become a new and better one for restart to live.

The people can change, the women above all.

The women can change the feelings in a single night.

The single fact they haven't good references to become good parents from their families (not true about kallen's mum, what that woman did for her daughter is very big and kallen understood it on S1ep.9) is good, they know the meaning of a bad parent, then they know how to become better.

In the beginning, every neo-dad/mum think "I'm not good to be a dad/mum", but that'a a responsability every human being must to learn from the beginning alone, the other people can give some suggestion, but at last is always a personal goal.

And both of them know very well the difference about what is good and what is bad.

Mazryonh · 2009-09-21, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzo

my sister always refuse to learn about homejobs from my mother, etc...now she's married and she obliged to learn how to manage a house from zero.

Heh heh . . . The first time I read this sentence I thought "manage a house from zero" meant "learn how to run a household while a certain revolutionary character in a big bubble helmet looks over her shoulder," not "learn how to do run a household without any prior experience."

"Women can change their feelings in a single night"? I take it you're speaking from personal experience, but you shouldn't underestimate the ability of men to change when they understand the need to and the price of not changing.

Bonzo · 2009-09-21, 22:00

It's true, but the women are more sensible and fickle in comparison with men.

A man need more pressure or facts for to understand a error.

All the events happened in a single year hit Kallen and Lelouch like a avalanche, with heavy damages for both.
The difference is Lelouch lost the life desire, instad Kallen has a motivation to restart with him and she's ready to everything for him, to change like woman too.

In the beginning she used the experience gained with both her masks, the normal/sensible girl like stadfteld and the energic and determined like kozuki.

But after the twins birth and her evolution like mother, she understood totally the message leaved by her mum, then, Kallen finally drop everything about her past, she cut her hairs for don't see exterial reference about her old masks then she returned to have the same spirit she had before the war, the "kind girl of her mum memories".

That day Kallen officially becomed "Karen Kouzuki" the name on her new identity is just a "deformation" of her real name, but sufficient for to be a new people in the eyes of the world.

Sch@dows · 2009-09-24, 07:09

As I already said in the CG images thread, I like your version of the story.

Did you update the 1st post of the topic to include the new version (afraid to look and spoil myself) ? or is it the old version and I will need to search for the new ones in the rest of the pages ?

Bonzo · 2009-09-24, 09:07

No, I edited all the other old post with the new links of chp.22, then in page 2 there's the new version, I'll do the same with chp.23, etc.

Sch@dows · 2009-09-25, 00:56

Ok, thank.

Itadakimasu ^_~

Bonzo · 2009-09-30, 13:57

Well, new Turn 23 is almost ready, just to fix a last couple of image and the new english text.

Mazryonh · 2009-10-07, 00:34

Hi, Bonzo,

The three new panels look good, but I think blacking out Kallen's eyes was a bit much (in this series such a visual device is used only for those either making use of, or being controlled by, Geass powers).

It would have been enough in my opinion for her eyes to be obscured by shadow, so as to show her barely restrained anger, along with a dialogue bubble saying "Out. Of. My. Way." She's not one to hurt her trusted friends without good reason, and right now I think she's struggling between the need to make her friends understand the only way she knows how (through violence), and the desire to keep from hurting them. The method I described earlier could be one good way to show this internal struggle inside Kallen.

Bonzo · 2009-10-07, 05:31

Don't worry, Kallen in that event is totally out for the anger.

Gino isn't her friend (not again) he try to calm Kallen like the playboy he is, but he's using the wrong words:

Gino: "Come on, Kallen, I know, you're upset now, but Ougi used you for a useful reason. He isn't Lelouch..."

Kallen: "Get out of my face!"

Kallen hit Gino because he speak bad about Lelouch, without to know nothing about the dialogue Kallen had with him.

In that story phase, Kallen lost the trust about all her friends, now she trust of Lelouch only, but she can't return to him.

Mazryonh · 2009-10-08, 12:21

I'm also glad you seem to be taking my advice in that the new panels don't have dialogue boxes or bubbles in them, but will be added later through photoshop. This will allow us to make new dialogue bubbles that better fit the translated text, without squishing into the bubbles that may have sufficed for Italian.

Are you going to add any new art in this chapter or the next showing Kallen doing what she does best, namely kicking ass and taking names? She got shot down pretty early during this "battle to end all battles" as I recall.

No, it doesn't have to be the same orgy of violence another famous animated red-head did (Asuka Langley Soryu) in the old movie End of Evangelion, but it'd be nice nonetheless to see her fight to save the one she loves, rather than just to kill more of the enemy.

2009-09-21, 19:01	Link #211
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	Kallen always boast to be able to make everything if she want. However if you look the fact with a realistic eye, you will understand well, example, my sister always refuse to learn about homejobs from my mother, etc...now she's married and she obliged to learn how to manage a house from zero. About your theory Kallen isn't good for that kind of responsability maybe is the same thought Ougi and Kaguya had, they tried to persuade Kallen don't do it. But this is just the standard idea we spoke about anime characters, then that's their character/behaviour, they can't change, etc...but I'm evolving the characters like a real human being can evolve. Kallen sacrified her future for take care of a disabled Lelouch, nobody will help her, she must do it alone, then she must change, to learn, to evolve, to become a new woman with new responsabilities. With the new part on chp 23 everything will be more clear, however about Kallen's wish to become a mum, it's a simple psycholigical evolution. Kallen's life was good in the beginning, and in 2010 everything fall down, then a life dark, in the suffering, a fake life for to cover the truth, with just 2 goal: 1)to continue naoto's dream 2)to build a new happyness for her and her mother. But the result of these goals is she lost EVERYTHING she wanted to protect, and thanks her mother farewell letter, she understood all the pain and the suffering she did like zero's henchman. A person can learn a lot from her personal pain, and after a life with that kind of suffering, feelings like pity, love, kindness...will can become more strong. Thanks C.C "suggestions" Kallen married the big responsability to take care and change lelouch, but the first step is to change herself. She's alone, without a family, then to build a similar responsability is a goal and the bigger trial for her. To create a new life is the only and best way to test her wish to become a new and better one for restart to live. The people can change, the women above all. The women can change the feelings in a single night. The single fact they haven't good references to become good parents from their families (not true about kallen's mum, what that woman did for her daughter is very big and kallen understood it on S1ep.9) is good, they know the meaning of a bad parent, then they know how to become better. In the beginning, every neo-dad/mum think "I'm not good to be a dad/mum", but that'a a responsability every human being must to learn from the beginning alone, the other people can give some suggestion, but at last is always a personal goal. And both of them know very well the difference about what is good and what is bad. Last edited by Bonzo; 2009-09-21 at 19:20.

2009-10-07, 00:34	Link #218
Mazryonh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Hi, Bonzo, The three new panels look good, but I think blacking out Kallen's eyes was a bit much (in this series such a visual device is used only for those either making use of, or being controlled by, Geass powers). It would have been enough in my opinion for her eyes to be obscured by shadow, so as to show her barely restrained anger, along with a dialogue bubble saying "Out. Of. My. Way." She's not one to hurt her trusted friends without good reason, and right now I think she's struggling between the need to make her friends understand the only way she knows how (through violence), and the desire to keep from hurting them. The method I described earlier could be one good way to show this internal struggle inside Kallen. Last edited by Mazryonh; 2009-10-15 at 19:23.

2009-09-12, 20:51	Link #201
Betteroffer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Great job on the last two updates. In the farewell between Ohgi and Kallen, I particularly like how you handled all of Kallen's facial expressions. My favorite is the second panel of the second page. Her face really seemed to soften when she was watching the family. For the very last panel on page 4, did you intend for her face to seem something of a mix between determined and insane, because that's how it came across to me.

2009-09-15, 17:03	Link #203
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	So, ready? Chapter 22 totally fixed, new art, a more complete storyboard and dialogues, thanks to Nobodyman9 and Mazryonh for to english text corrections. http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R01eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R02eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R03eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R04eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R05eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R06eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R07eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R08eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R09eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R10eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R11eng.JPG http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...t/R2R12eng.JPG

2009-09-16, 16:34	Link #204
Mazryonh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Though there are still a few errors in the English in this version, I must say I like the result. I'll admit that some of the suggestions I gave you were a bit wordy, but maybe in the future when you plan on making new drawings for your comics--whether you make new panels for your current comics or when making drawings for your OAV--you can try to scan in only the lineart instead of adding it in pencil. That way, you could give one of us the raw files with the lineart only along with the edited English script, so we could then make new dialogue boxes through photoshop that aren't quite as cramped. Good work as always!

2009-09-16, 18:52	Link #205
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	And chapter 23 will be more long of three pages. However, if you want start to analyze the english text of chp23, go for it. I finish the art correction of first six pages already.

2009-09-20, 20:49	Link #206
azul120 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Have you ever thought of having Lelouch ever being relieved from his exile?

2009-09-21, 02:56	Link #209
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	How to explain... Lelouch decided from the beginning to die, but at last he failed and everybody stopped him about that idea, to live for him was a torture, a too much heavy weight on his shoulders. To live in exile physically ruined and mentally destroyed at last is the worst punishment for him. In the trial he declared to cut EVERY contact with the people know he's alive (nunnally, suzaku, cornelia, etc...) he must stop to exist for everybody. However, at last after years of effort, Kallen success to comfort him a little...Lelouch tried to hold on for Kallen, for a guilt feeling and the fact his death equal to kill Kallen's soul. But just a REAL responsability could to fix something, then Kallen lied to Lelouch on purpose about after morning pill, etc..she was sure only a baby could to change something and she had the will to become mum from the beginning. In fact with the babies something changed and Lelouch finded a little happyness, but his guilt feeling will never leave him in peace.

2009-09-21, 22:00	Link #213
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	It's true, but the women are more sensible and fickle in comparison with men. A man need more pressure or facts for to understand a error. All the events happened in a single year hit Kallen and Lelouch like a avalanche, with heavy damages for both. The difference is Lelouch lost the life desire, instad Kallen has a motivation to restart with him and she's ready to everything for him, to change like woman too. In the beginning she used the experience gained with both her masks, the normal/sensible girl like stadfteld and the energic and determined like kozuki. But after the twins birth and her evolution like mother, she understood totally the message leaved by her mum, then, Kallen finally drop everything about her past, she cut her hairs for don't see exterial reference about her old masks then she returned to have the same spirit she had before the war, the "kind girl of her mum memories". That day Kallen officially becomed "Karen Kouzuki" the name on her new identity is just a "deformation" of her real name, but sufficient for to be a new people in the eyes of the world.

2009-09-24, 07:09	Link #214
Sch@dows Member Join Date: Jun 2007	As I already said in the CG images thread, I like your version of the story. Did you update the 1st post of the topic to include the new version (afraid to look and spoil myself) ? or is it the old version and I will need to search for the new ones in the rest of the pages ?

2009-09-24, 09:07	Link #215
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	No, I edited all the other old post with the new links of chp.22, then in page 2 there's the new version, I'll do the same with chp.23, etc.

2009-09-25, 00:56	Link #216
Sch@dows Member Join Date: Jun 2007	Ok, thank. Itadakimasu ^_~

2009-09-30, 13:57	Link #217
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	Well, new Turn 23 is almost ready, just to fix a last couple of image and the new english text.

2009-10-07, 05:31	Link #219
Bonzo I change anime endings. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Italy Age: 46	Don't worry, Kallen in that event is totally out for the anger. Gino isn't her friend (not again) he try to calm Kallen like the playboy he is, but he's using the wrong words: Gino: "Come on, Kallen, I know, you're upset now, but Ougi used you for a useful reason. He isn't Lelouch..." Kallen: "Get out of my face!" Kallen hit Gino because he speak bad about Lelouch, without to know nothing about the dialogue Kallen had with him. In that story phase, Kallen lost the trust about all her friends, now she trust of Lelouch only, but she can't return to him.

2009-10-08, 12:21	Link #220
Mazryonh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	I'm also glad you seem to be taking my advice in that the new panels don't have dialogue boxes or bubbles in them, but will be added later through photoshop. This will allow us to make new dialogue bubbles that better fit the translated text, without squishing into the bubbles that may have sufficed for Italian. Are you going to add any new art in this chapter or the next showing Kallen doing what she does best, namely kicking ass and taking names? She got shot down pretty early during this "battle to end all battles" as I recall. No, it doesn't have to be the same orgy of violence another famous animated red-head did (Asuka Langley Soryu) in the old movie End of Evangelion, but it'd be nice nonetheless to see her fight to save the one she loves, rather than just to kill more of the enemy.