2010-05-12, 14:05 | Link #1961 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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Okay but let's leave the numbers out of it, as far as I'm concerned Goku and Freeza were going toe-to-toe on Namek until Freeza had been in 100% mode too long, which reflects what actually happened on the show because until that point no one seemed to have the upper hand. In fact, Freeza 100% was getting in some good shots from what I saw.
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2010-05-12, 19:56 | Link #1966 | |
Mad Scientist
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That's just my two-cents. I imagine Toriyama would be laughing his ass off if he saw how much thought we're putting into this. =)
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2010-05-12, 22:53 | Link #1967 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
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I specifically said at the beginning of the fight where it seemed like they were fighting on equal ground. It's fairly obvious that Goku was not taking Frieza serious anymore after his power was steadily decreasing, I'm just curious as to whether or not Goku was really that much stronger (I.e. - 25% stronger) than Frieza from the get go. Not everyone that watches Dragonball Z is aware of their power levels in each fight, I measured their strength by what I saw. It initially seemed like they were equally powerful at the beginning of their battle, which is what led me to my thoughts in my previous post.
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2010-05-13, 00:27 | Link #1968 |
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...I knew I should've added a smilie there. Didn't mean to insult you or anything.
I know you were refering to the beggining of the fight, in which case yeah none of us could've guessed Goku was toying with him, but you sounded like you only became aware of it after you learned of their diference in power level in this thread, when I think the show itself made it obvious enough that Goku was toying with him the whole time when he himself went "Is this all you've got?" and stopped playing and started kicking Freeza's ass with ease. |
2010-05-13, 00:46 | Link #1969 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I didn't know the difference was so immense from the beginning, I figured that Goku was purposely tiring Frieza out in order to win the fight later, rather than toying with him which is why my post seemed that way.
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2010-05-13, 02:30 | Link #1970 | |
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And yeah I suppose one could interpret it that way too. What tipped me was, like I said, Goku has been known to play around with his opponent for a while in order to make the fight more interesting before actually getting serious and quickly making short work of them. He did it as far back as in the original Dragonball, against Kuririn in the second Budokai Tenkaichi and then against Tenshinhan in the third one. Both times it looked like they were giving him a run for his money, but then Goku got serious and just outright embarrased them. Well those were sportive fights and not an actual battle like against Freeza, but still. |
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2010-05-13, 11:21 | Link #1972 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Age: 34
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There's no denying Goku likes to toy with his opponent. Still, I always got the impression that true 100% Freeza could actually stand equal to Goku and that Goku was just biding his time, waiting for Freeza's power to run out.
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2010-05-13, 12:34 | Link #1973 | |
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Indeed, Toriyama would be cracking up at our in-depth discussions concerning power. In all honesty, I don't like discussing power levels in Dragon Ball Z. Basically, the person with the higher power level would always be the victor. There were no other factors that could determine who wins. I always found that to be very one-dimensional. It was the same formula all the time. In the original Dragon Ball, however, a person with a lower power level could put up a really good fight, and perhaps beat the superior opponent. Skill, intelligence, and technique, actually meant something. This gave the fights more depth, and IMO, made them more interesting.
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2010-05-13, 15:05 | Link #1974 |
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It is the evolution of Dragon Ball from a fantasy martial arts themed adventure, to DBZ which was almost the Japanese equivalent of DC style super heroes. I think Toriyama still tries to incorporate tactics in DBZ, but it is less prominent than in DB.
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2010-05-13, 15:26 | Link #1975 |
Banned
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Indeed, DB had simple but nice tactics in battles. It was explained why Goku was becoming stronger each time IN PRACTICE and not just simply beefing up like on DBZ.
Other than that, the first Cooler movie is titled "The 10 million battle power warriors". Filler or no filler, there is no way someone other than Goku and Cooler had more than 10m in that movie. Piccolo and Vejita had a bit over 1m on Namek. Doesn't that kinda prove that maxed out Goku on Namek is 15m and not 150m? |
2010-05-13, 16:13 | Link #1976 | |
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2010-05-13, 16:34 | Link #1977 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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Future Trunks had trained for some time already as a super saiyan. Yet Goku was still able to hold him off with a single finger. It seems to me as less likely that Goku, if he was still at the same level as his initial super saiyan transformation, would exceed a Trunks that has trained as a super saiyan for a while.
Therefore I believe it's more likely that Goku has increased his ability as well. |
2010-05-13, 17:26 | Link #1978 | |
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2010-05-13, 19:15 | Link #1979 | |
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