[Manga] Naruto Chapter 598 Discussion Thread

[Shining Celebi]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I thought all this time that Koto... something jutsu is not the same as the one used by Danzou. One being an MS jutsu that has instantaneous effect and last until the death of the victim, and the other needs just normal sharingan eye and it has an effect only while being cast by the user. It seemed that Danzou using it was not instantaneous and that's how it was discovered by the byakugan and also that's why the samurai boss returned to normal after the jutsu was stopped.

Tobi switching on and off his MS at a crazy fast rate doesn't seem natural. We have also seen his eye being a normal sharingan while he was using his jutsu against Konan.

He either is using a lesser kamui that has an effect only on his own body with normal sharingan (the 1st hokage's cells make their magic on his eye) or he has EMS, otherwise he should be blind by now. Kakashi used his eyes only a very few times but he already asked Itachi about blindness. Of course Kishimoto could just tell us that Hashirama's cells make the MS eternal

Just wanted to say ^ this. You said pretty much everything I was thinking.

Frankly, though, I'd rather believe Tobi needed the Mangekyou Kamui to counter Kakashi's Kamui...and that his uses of Kamui are "lesser" with his normal Sharingan, like you said there.

[yakumo-chan]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Tobi switching on and off his MS at a crazy fast rate doesn't seem natural. We have also seen his eye being a normal sharingan while he was using his jutsu against Konan.

I think Kishimoto is just hiding the appearance of the Mangekyou Sharingan of Kamui from the readers.

There is still Mystery about Kakashi's Story,
How did he activate the Mangekyou?
How did Rin Died?(Did Kakashi killed her? or Obito? hence activating MS?)

I think everything will be revealed in this battle....

as far as I remember, 2010 was supposed to be "The Year of Kakashi",
but it seems to be happening now,,,
Which means Kishimoto was planning to reveal TObi's Identity in 2010? but decided not to?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It does not contradict the content of this chapter. I mean this is a manga when Sasuke can pull out an Orochimaru from Anko's ass

it absolutely does. we know kamui is a kakashi MS technique. We know Tobi uses Obito's eye and has the exact same MS pattern and calls his technique Kamui. I'm shocked frankly that 100% evidence just isn't enough for some people... that's some serious denial

There are many images shoving Tobi with normal sharinan against Konan, but in chapter 510 page 2 seems to be a good one: she's constantly exploding tags around Tobi so that he would run out of the 5 minute time limit for Kamui. On page 4 we see Tobi breaking off the part of the mask covering his other eye, that is when he began using the izanagi, which means until then he had to use kamui to survive the explosive tags. Or is there any other explanation?

right. so this:

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

he used kamui for five minutes then izanagi probably reset the clock...which is why konan thought she managed to kill him.

Artimus is right about this. The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single frame in the manga that shows Tobi using kamui with a normal sharingan.

also his whole right arm was blown off during this fight...this current human looking arm is driving me...

me too... I really am looking forward to the reveal. that arm just doesn't add up and so far you're the only other person on here to even acknowledge it

[Photonbeam]

Chapter gets more exciting every week. I wonder who's really behind that mask.

[Nintendo]

Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune

With cliffhangers like these, Kishi might troll us or shift to another battle to keep us waiting before he actually shows us Tobi's identity.

I assumed back 4-5 chapters ago that kimish will show tobi on chapter 600. so I feel the same way that the next chapter will shift to someone/something else.

[SoloPanda]

So who's up for a Konoha sports festival chapter? or a Chapter with Sakura... just Sakura doing Sakura stuff..... ah well I'm guessing he will really not troll us this time and we will get to see who Tobi is next chapter... I have faith in this so you should believe me cause I'm "A Random Guy on the Internet" >.<

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Tobi switching on and off his MS at a crazy fast rate doesn't seem natural.

Most of the time we don't even have a clear view of his eye pattern, so he probably isn't even switching back and forth as fast as you imagine.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

There are many images shoving Tobi with normal sharinan against Konan, but in chapter 510 page 2 seems to be a good one [...]

You're not making sense again. You were asked to cite an instance where Tobi is perfoming Kamui while using a regular sharingan, and instead you reference perhaps the only time in the manga where he states he is going to reserve his use of the technique. A "good one" indeed :/

Tobi isn't even using the technique on either of the pages you cite, i.e. there is nothing moving through him.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

We have also seen his eye being a normal sharingan while he was using his jutsu against Konan

This is simply false, Tobi's eye pattern is not visible anywhere in that fight while he is performing Kamui :/

You seem to have a serious issue accepting facts that you aren't fond of. This reminds me of the time you didn't like the idea of the former Raikage being able to withstand Naruto's FRS shiruken, so you simply denied it, and claimed Edo-Tensei regenerated the Raikage's body off camera --despite a cloud ninja clearly stating that the Raikage had a special body(and the fact that the "regeneration" never happened), I thought that was pretty amazing.

[Kowai]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

So who's up for a Konoha sports festival chapter? or a Chapter with Sakura... just Sakura doing Sakura stuff..... ah well I'm guessing he will really not troll us this time and we will get to see who Tobi is next chapter... I have faith in this so you should believe me cause I'm "A Random Guy on the Internet" >.<

LOL sakura stuff..

[Dengar]

At least Sakura is being a med-nin offscreen rather than actually being useless.

[Black0raz0r]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

I think Kishimoto is just hiding the appearance of the Mangekyou Sharingan of Kamui from the readers.

There is still Mystery about Kakashi's Story,
How did he activate the Mangekyou?
How did Rin Died?(Did Kakashi killed her? or Obito? hence activating MS?)

I think everything will be revealed in this battle....

as far as I remember, 2010 was supposed to be "The Year of Kakashi",
but it seems to be happening now,,,
Which means Kishimoto was planning to reveal TObi's Identity in 2010? but decided not to?

I get it
Tobi is Rin and named herself Tobi in honor for Obito

[Lunarskylar]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Most of the time we don't even have a clear view of his eye pattern, so he probably isn't even switching back and forth as fast as you imagine.



You're not making sense again. You were asked to cite an instance where Tobi is perfoming Kamui while using a regular sharingan, and instead you reference perhaps the only time in the manga where he states he is going to reserve his use of the technique. A "good one" indeed :/

Tobi isn't even using the technique on either of the pages you cite, i.e. there is nothing moving through him.

on the next page, 510 page 3, you can clearly see the normal sharingan as well as an exploding tag passing through tobi's face.
Is this the proof everyone's been looking for?

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Artimus is right about this. The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single frame in the manga that shows Tobi using kamui with a normal sharingan.

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

on the next page, 510 page 3, you can clearly see the normal sharingan as well as an exploding tag passing through tobi's face.
Is this the proof everyone's been looking for?

I had just posted this before seeing you had already replied. There is no ambiguity in that panel; either what Tobi has been doing does not require the Mangekyou Sharingan or Kishi made a mistake. The long-range version Kakashi uses is the Mangekyou Sharingan technique, while Tobi's close-range-only version seems to be usable with the normal Sharingan. Tobi activating the Mangekyou Sharingan now is either for dramatic effect or for the purpose of using the more useful version that does not require the thing being transported to be physically touching the user. We have seen a similar distinction between two related but not exactly identical Sharingan jutsu with Shisui's eyes. The mind control Danzou used required him to continuously channel it, allowing a Byakugan user to discover him, while the Mangekyou Sharingan Komo Amatsukami was an instantaneously cast set-it-and-forget it command jutsu akin to Lelouch's Geass from Code Geass.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

on the next page, 510 page 3, you can clearly see the normal sharingan as well as an exploding tag passing through tobi's face.
Is this the proof everyone's been looking for?

This was the moment Tobi activated Izanagi, so Kishimoto can use the technique as an excuse for not showing an MS during that particular moment in the manga.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by james0246

This was the moment Tobi activated Izanagi, so Kishimoto can use the technique as an excuse for not showing an MS during that particular moment in the manga.

No it wasn't. Konan hadn't even stated the detail of their being enough tags for ten minutes of explosions by this point. He didn't activate Izanagi until Page 4, in the middle panel along the top row, when he's beginning to tear off the part of his mask that covers his left eye.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

No it wasn't. Konan hadn't even stated the detail of their being enough tags for ten minutes of explosions by this point. He didn't activate Izanagi until Page 4, in the middle panel along the top row, when he's beginning to tear off the part of his mask that covers his left eye.

All I see are the sound effects coming out of the eye that starts Izanagi. And when an eye makes a sound in Naruto, something is going down. The same eye makes a sound on page 3, then a more dramatic sound on page 4. Maybe you are correct and Page 4 was supposed to be the specific start of the technique, but Kishimoto can easily retcon the situation so page 3 is the official start.

[prakash123]

Seeing all this debate abt tobi's eye, i'd like to say something.what if tobi can actually use kamui with a normal sharingan(maybe senju DNA powered it up)and also when tobi activated his MS he said "I'll show u the power of the real kamui"And then in the next panel u see tobi using kamui again but his MS is nt shown.and throughout the whole chapter his sharingan/MS is nt shown but they only show his rinnegan.(chapt 598 pg 8).so maybe if tobi is obito which makes the sharingan originally his and he has uchiha blood then maybe his sharingan tech is kamui and MS tech is much more potent version of kamui???and maybe kakashi doesnt have uchiha blood so he has to activate MS in order u use kamui.btw has kakashi ever used tsukiyumi with his eye(since its implanted).oh and also issit ever said/shown that tobi can deactivate his sharigan?from what i read and seen non uchihas who implant sharingans cant deactivate the eye.


Is there a difference in "the power of the real kamui and "the real power of kamui"?

[Apollian]

Tobi's is powered up! if you look at how Edo Madara can use Mokoton because the 1st's DNA/body has been fused to his chest.. Tobi is spamming his MS like flavor of the month, so it has to be EMS not MS, which means those eyes aren't his!.. if he was Obito, and kept the same eyes, he'd be blind by now. It's either Izuna or Kagami.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Apollian

if he was Obito, and kept the same eyes, he'd be blind by now.

This. I've never been a fan of the Obito theory. I would not be surprised, however, if he ended up LOOKING like Obito for some weird reason. Like Tobi integrating his DNA or somewhat.


It can't be EMS, however. EMS combines the pattern of the user's sharingan with the pattern of the embedded sharingan.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

on the next page, 510 page 3, you can clearly see the normal sharingan as well as an exploding tag passing through tobi's face.
Is this the proof everyone's been looking for?

ok I see what you're saying. imo that is when he ended kamui and began another plan of action. that frame at the top of p3 is when tobi realizes that kamui isn't enough to escape the situation and like i've said before, kishi was unable to ever show us Tobi's MS for mystery purposes which is why we never get a deactivation panel

Originally Posted by Apollian

Tobi's is powered up! if you look at how Edo Madara can use Mokoton because the 1st's DNA/body has been fused to his chest.. Tobi is spamming his MS like flavor of the month, so it has to be EMS not MS, which means those eyes aren't his!.. if he was Obito, and kept the same eyes, he'd be blind by now. It's either Izuna or Kagami.

its not EMS. if it was it would be a different pattern than Kakashi's MS. you dont know that he'd be blind by now. you just said yourself that the 1st's dna powers uchiha up which is correct so it stands to reason that the 1st's dna prolongs the light of a MS

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

You're not making sense again. You were asked to cite an instance where Tobi is perfoming Kamui while using a regular sharingan, and instead you reference perhaps the only time in the manga where he states he is going to reserve his use of the technique. A "good one" indeed :/

You might want to read those chapters again, and also the recent chapters. When Tobi sends parts of his body to another dimension he is using Kamui as Kakashi and Tobi have confirmed it in the latest chapters. Konan confirms that Tobi's limit on maintaining his Kamui used on his own body is 5 mintues. So she starts to explode her exploding tags for 10 minutes non-stop, she does this to prevent Tobi from escaping. We see Tobi's eyes at least 2 times while Konan is exploding tags around and inside Tobi non-stop. At one point (probably right before his Kamui runs out) Tobi removes the part of his mask that was covering his other sharingan eyes, this is clearly the part where he begins the Izanagi as a last resort to escape death.

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Tobi isn't even using the technique on either of the pages you cite, i.e. there is nothing moving through him.

If there were nothing forcing him to use Kamui he could have either escaped the exploding tags by teleporting away or simply stop it, rest a bit, and then do another Kamui so that he would extend his Kamui beyond Konan's 10 minute timespan. But he couldn't do that that is why Konan forced him to use the izanagi.

Of course i will not be surprised if it turns out that you were right, it would simply be another plot hole in the manga.
But i like the idea of Tobi being able to perform an MS-level jutsu using only regular sharingan eye, that would be something that makes him really special, as a final evil boss should be. Otherwise it should also be explained why didn't he go blind or why does he have an EMS. And also how can he spam MS/EMS jutsu so easily if he earlier stated that he is weak, and also he never used any rinnegan power in this battle (likely reason explalined by Kakashi).