Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Yurichan

i



lol it says nowhere it's about Bardiche nor Raising Heart. It's just info about Intelligent Device in general.

What list of Intelligent Device did you miss in this article? =D

[LimitedEternal]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Oh, so that's why that tree was looking familiar...

Tree?

*examines*

Ahh, my cornucopia tree! Grows seventeen different types of tropical fruits, each as delicious as the real thing. Only problem is you never know which one it grows next.

[Estavali]

Maybe this could help. This below is taken from the StrikerS manga, which is of course 100% canon.

Spoiler for Silver Retriever: Plagarised!:

If there's no difference between the two major magic systems cited since A's onwards, 7Arcs can save the trouble of designing a new system, one complete with its limitations. In fact, I do believe that the term "Midchildan magic" came to prominence after Belka was introduced in A's. Before it's simply... magic.

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

Is it just me or am I getting a "run-in-circles" vibe here?

'Welcome...to the Outer Limits'



*runs off screaming in a random direction only to encounter the crumb trail he left behind...again*

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Yurichan

I wish you guys wouldn't all attack me because what you say isn't solid either.

Quotes from cards, quotes from datasheets, quotes from novels, observation of the anime... our evidence is pretty solid. Meanwhile, your evidence is non-existent. We're not attacking you, we just want to know where you got this information, much less claim it is canon. We've asked you this repeatedly but you just never answer the question!

[Comartemis]

Me goes away now because it's sleepy time. I wish you guys wouldn't all attack me because what you say isn't solid either.

On the contrary, you're the only one who's made an attack here; calling a person simple-minded isn't much of an insult, but an insult it is.

[Saint X]

What in Sparta happened here...

6 pages in the space of 8 hours?


THIS IS...

*gets preemptively kicked*

Originally Posted by Keroko

How many OC's did we have that were potential love interests for Nanoha and Fate? I remember Kha and Hibiki, but beyond them it's getting blurry...

Some canons have OC potential love interests too.

OT: Did you see my Reply or PMs?

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

Now that the topic's been brought up, how does one go about constructing a Device? I doubt it's a simple thing to do.

Read Daishi's fics: they're quite informative about the "making of a device"

well in his view.

Originally Posted by Kyral

Yes, I think I will keep her that way. :3

That brings me to the question, how much OCs actually are wearing white uniforms?

Well I don't have any OC that wears white atm...

most of them are silver or gray or blue.

Originally Posted by Estavali

The best way to identify a Device as either Midchildan or Belkan is actually very simple. Just take not of which language they're using. If it's English, it's Mid. If it's German, Belkan. The only exceptions to this rule are the Unison Devices which are Belkan but speak Japanese.

Even in Cadia, where crack rules (generally), we keep to this rule. If there's a Device that speaks neither it's usually one that belongs to neither system.

When a device Speaks Francophonically or some other language...

it is either "oh shi-" or "oh lol".


*begins marking of posts for Tatical Removal*

[Wild Goose]

*headdesk*

Just FYI, Cadians: Haru's on Yurichan's friendlist.

Nothing to say except for twitching and a big "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over" at the running in circles.

There is more to Nanoha than just yuri innuendo and NF. This thread is meant for those things, because every other Nanoha thread has been infiltrated by the forces of the Legion.

*sighs*

Also, Yuri? If you get an infraction, complaining about it to us is barking up the wrong tree. Go and talk to the mod who gave you the infraction.

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by LimitedEternal

Now that the topic's been brought up, how does one go about constructing a Device? I doubt it's a simple thing to do.

Just to add fuel to the fire, I have done a treatise on device creation before, which was promptly rejected and ridiculed by Outer Cadia at the time. Bear in mind, this is a treatise using Enforcer-verse / my home brew rules, as I'm trying to make it as realistic / Armored Core / Xenosaga-like as possible. Try comparing it with Daishi Prime's I guess to figure out works best for you.

Spoiler for J-Easy's Treatise on Magical Devices:

A Magical Device as a concept is anything that helps a Mage cast his or her spells. Therefore, even something as antiquated as a Witch's broom, a Wizard's staff, or a wand is technically still a device. Those things are still viable in their own but I won't get into that with this topic. For most people though, it is not the sort of thing they want to take into combat with them, especially with Modern Magical Devices.

Modern Magical Devices, take for example Storage Devices, are pretty sophisticated pieces of hardware. To quote my buddy Tempest Dynasty, they are smarter, more efficient, and even autonomous. I think of it as owning your personal jet fighter with its unique set of avionics and all those other necessary things you need it to fly and fight. A simpler analogy would be to just think of a Modern Magical Device as a laptop that can save your life in combat. Of course, there are bound to be civilian applications too, but that's a subject for another time.

Anyways, I am thinking you break down a Device much like any other piece of electronic hardware. The components you absolutely need to make a basic Device are:

A "Power Source" that is a Mana Generator that can turn mana into useful electricity to power all this stuff. Though you don't need it if you plan on relying only on the Mana Logic Drive listed below, or you could probably take the end product "Prana" you get from converting "Mana" in your circuits and linker core, and use that as your power source.

A Mana Logic Drive, think of it as a information reconstruction / analysis / generator / optimizer / transducer / converter that takes all that Input --- electricity, mana, will, thought, spells / "programs" --- and turns it into a useful / the desired Output, i.e. a Barrier Jacket, a Divine Buster shot, etc. The excess output from creating such a phenomenom is then vented back into the device, the environment, and user as heat, waste particles, recoil, etc. That stuff is taken care by Radiators, Mana Purifiers, stabilizers, muzzle brakes, and so on.

To quote, Tempest Dynasty, "Its primary tasks is compiler and transducer. A tranducer converts one physical variable to another, like how a speaker turns voltage into sound. It can be a physical representation, or primarily electric one. In our case, a transducer can convert raw mana into, say, electricity (Bardiche) or ice (Durandal), and the other way around, in cases of absorption fields, but like all engines, conversion is not 100%. There are no perfect engines, only some more effective than others. There's always loss and waste. Overheating~! = DOOM!"

A "Mother Circuit" / Motherboard.

A "Hard Drive" permanent storage for spells.

A"Memory" temporary or cached spells (more memory you the more you can fire off consecutively or simultaneously if you have the Mana and your CPU is fast enough).

A CPU or some kind of "Processor".

A Magi-Link Interface AKA the User Interface but it also serves as a power outlet between the Mage (who is the power source instead of your local power company) and the Device.

And then some kind of Casing, Frame, or the "Airframe" to hold it all together.

You technically don't need a CPU or Memory and it would still be a Device, but it wouldn't be a Modern Device anymore. The things that come extra after that are:

Mana Purifiers - I got inspired to put these in from Rental Magica. The reason being, I think that mana still behaves just like any conventional energy source; therefore, when you use it something has to be produced as waste, not to mention energy conversion is not 100% efficient. One of the by products that comes out is Mana Pollution --- a radioactive particle, real nasty, usually can't see it just like Mana, and it's harmful to both living creatures and the environment. Of course, it does more than just the radioactive thing but it can also cause bad magical phenomenon in the area, i.e. Curses, Hauntings, The Dead coming back to Life, Time Dilation, etc.

These babies are actually mandatory nowadays, and in my universe, there is a pretty high priority by the Bureau to clean up old battlefields of the stuff, as it's just bad news for everyone, Mages and normals alike.

Annedum: Think "Red" GN particles if all that other mumbo jumbo above doesn't make sense to you. Essentially, it's bad for the body, e.g. causes cellular degenerations, and the environment.

Radiators - Running all that hardware inside and casting magic makes device go hot. It's only natural you'd want a Radiator or two or three built-in to dissipate all that Heat.

Mana Capacitors - It's an on-board battery. Helps you do less work.

Mana Condensors / Compressors - More add-ons to help you get more of that mana and / or get it faster.

Anything else after that is pretty much extra, like an A.I. Core for example.

Have fun.

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'd like to believe anything comes at a price... so what's the catch on this Barrier Jacket?

Okay, this is going to be tough to explain, since I can do it in much greater detail if I was using my homebrew rules. However, this is meant to be Nanoverse friendly, I'll see what I can do...

Assuming the Nanoverse Barrier Jacket model, essentially the SCAR-G's Barrier Jacket does output its own passive "Field Barrier". If this was Enforcerverse, I could specify exactly what kind it was, but since this is Nanoverse, I am going to keep it generic. However, in the interest of game balance, and the fact, it's a device manufactured legally, I am going to say that this Field Barrier in particular is attuned to "energy"-based attacks, a la Divine Buster and Divine Shooters.

Now, a Barrier Jacket's "Class" rating to me entails both protection and a level of battle readiness. At Class-IV, you're pretty much going to War, you're basically stereotypical SPEESH MERINES / Master Chief, and it's a pretty big and hefty program / formula that's going to take up a lot of HD space, since it offers the best protection and has a slew of built-in features.

But what does this all mean in practical terms, i.e. what's the catch?

The SCAR-G can safely "tank" one hit from a AAA-rated offensive attack, e.g. just plain Starlight Breaker, essentially the equivalent of a energy "Cannon" round. The Field Barrier will be completely destroyed and the physical Barrier Jacket will probably lose armor integrity down to 70% or less, but you'd still be able to carry on fighting. Take a moment aside to use Restoration and you'll be good as new to keep fighting.

Now an S rated attack like Starlight Breaker+ is cutting it close You'd probably want to bust out the Round Shield too at least and pray you suffer a graze or an indirect hit instead. A direct hit though...I think with a Round Shield plus the armor and field barrier rating is enough to tank a hit...but the devicer will pretty much be naked afterwards. If they're lucky, they'll still have 5% or less armor integrity left. If they've got bad luck, BJ and device are completely FUBAR'd, in which case you're pretty much screwed.

As for the actual Barrier Jacket, it's pretty darn tough as Class IVs go. Impervious to essentially "Hand Gun" and "SMG" calibre attacks, strongly resistant to "Rifle" calibre, "Shotgun" and "Machine Gun" calibre attacks could mean bad news, and "Heavy Weapons" and "High Explosives" calibre are without a doubt effective depending on how big you go and the yield. And yes, the SCAR-G's BJ is better designed to repel energy based attacks than physical bullets, since it's still built with an inevitable fight with Mid-Childan mages in mind after dispatching their screen of Belka-type mages.

That is, it's Field Barrier offers very little protection, if not none at all, against bullets. Bullets pass right through the barrier like it's not there. On the other hand, at least the BJ itself is still tough as nails.

However, a sniper with a specialist anti-material rifle could pose a serious threat, e.g. BOOM!HEADSHOT!, but you'd have to be using at least 14.5x114mm, the Soviet anti-tank and heavy machine gun round, to have a chance of scoring a one-hit kill. I personally recommend 20mm or bigger, since the thing with Barrier Jackets, after all, is that they have tendency to explode like reactive armor and damage tends to be spread out evenly over the BJ. Hence, it usually takes multiple hits or an extremely concentrated attack to score a wound or a kill.

Also, even though, the SCAR-G's BJ is a hard suit. It doesn't offer any special protection against melee weapons honestly, nor does it enhance your strength. So getting hit by spear, hammer, etc., is still going to hurt like if they manage to pierce your BJ. In fact, Hammers are particularly nice since they don't have to penetrate the BJ, they just have to hit you and you're going to be hurting for obvious reasons. Good luck actually pulling it off though, since someone with the SCAR-G, if they see you charging, and the moment you come within 4 meters of them? That's Kinesis range = e.g. LIFT + OVERKILL + Concussion Bomb = I win.

Oh, and the Barrier Jacket doesn't offer any additional protection against binds. If you get bind'ed, except to go down fast, and have to manually decode the sucker yourself. See, it was something of a design oversight, as using bind-based attacks in a War-time situation, considering the point is to kill your enemy, not capture them, usually.

All that said, allow me to tally out the list of Cons for the SCAR-G, BJ and practical performance related:

1. High Magus Aptitude required - need at least B++, recommended A.
2. Has no big gun attacks or fancy spells per say.
3. BJ is not flight proficient.
4. Difficult to use in combat since you have to be able to manage the cooldowns for your various spells well, know when to use 'em, and how to chain them together for the best result.
5. Lacking the extra punch needed to defeat Mid-types in a shootout.
6. Has to get close into CQB range to be effective; therefore, teamwork is paramount in allowing a squad to close in and engage with another squad.
7. BJ is a solid piece of kit, but you'll still get killed if someone drops 3 tons of car on you obviously, 65 tons of main battle tank rolls over you = SPLAT, or they manage to shove 2 feet of steel, real or magical, into you.
8. BJ's Field Barrier offers little or no protection against solid projectiles.
9. Offers no strength enhancement.
10. BJ offers no additional protection against Bind-type spells.

I can't think of anything else that's wrong with it. This is, after all, a top of the line piece of military hardware. Sure, it doesn't hold a candle to an officer's custom-made Device, but for grunts and most folks, it's pretty darn solid.

@Lowe: Wow, that's pretty nice, and I dig her full tactical getup. I am kinda tempted to give Mai a cameo role or appearance in the Enforcer-verse. Chainswords is always a good way to leave an unforgettable first impression.

@In General: I am gonna agree with Goose, the Anti-Pairing Brigade, and the rest of us who are sane. OC is NOT a place for ShippingTripFaggotry. Keep that to the Relationship and FanFic threads, please, for the love of sanity.

[Arkeus]

JamesEdwards: ok, i liked your thoughts on Device, they rejoin mine on much of it.

Only problem with it is in nanohaverse (not your brew verse) it's hinted that magic is not radioactive in th StrikerS manga (chap 2 page six onemanga).

As for your Barrier Jacket...a heavily defensing one, uh. I don't find any problem with it, especially as you hinted (but i may be wrong) that it takes a B+ rank full attention just to have it.

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

JamesEdwards: ok, i liked your thoughts on Device, they rejoin mine on much of it.

Only problem with it is in nanohaverse (not your brew verse) it's hinted that magic is not radioactive in th StrikerS manga (chap 2 page six onemanga).

And honestly, I can deal with what canon has to say about magic. Of course, it's awfully boring sounding to me, but if I was writing a canon story, I would certainly abide by it. I'd assume that reason there's no by product at all from using magic in Nanoverse cannon is either because: A. they have done the unpossible and do have 100% efficiency, B. they can safely change the entire by-product into something harmless, e.g. water vapor, or C. the mechanism for converting Mana into Prana does not obey the rules of "common sense", that is, you spin your Linker Core, convert that Mana it produces, and voila, you have free energy to do whatever the hell you want with no waste.

Worst case scenario, it's because the creators say so, and I should just nod my head and stop trying to understand canon.

Personally, I like my magic radioactive and with side effects because it's so much more fun. And really? It only become radioactive AFTER you use it. In my home brew verse, Magic is perfectly normal and happy in its natural state. It's when you use it that it becomes unhappy and vengeful.

[MeisterBabylon]

What an awful smell of laser burnt posts. I wonder if the mods already had a hay day with the threads...

Ah well, it's been a long time since I've done this, and I guess might as well...

[TRANSCENSION!]

...AHAHAHAHA! LET'S GO! ZENRYU ZENKAI DA!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Nanoha and Fate's outfit fit perfectly with there bodies and colors x3. I think they have made there outfits like that on purpose because it just looks so great on them

It might have been so during the character design process for StrikerS. I certainly feel that is so, mostly from how Fate ended up in a black uniform.

But that's where the speculation ends. In the StrikerS epilogue and then its sequel, StrikerS Soundstage X, Teana is seen in those black uniforms of Enforcer, so we can see for certain that the black uniform of Fate, however coincidentally matching her taste for fashion, is meant for wider use. You could even joke that she wanted to be an Enforcer (partly) because she liked the uniform!

As well as other characters, like Vita, were in the blue-white of the Air cadre, so Nanoha's too is metafictionally meant for wider use.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

So is this an official comic from Nanoha StrikerS then? It says copyright above there. So if it's official then the creator is a pro-nanofate relationship mangakan.

Mangaka-san have her take, Nana and Yukari have their take, 7Arcs has their take, Megami has another take, and together they point in different directions like spokes on a bicycle wheel, and all of them can be considered "official sources".

When official sources are so messy, you begin to doubt the quality of "journalism" and the ability for you to even use any of them to back your stand up.

So, we go back to basics. Tsuzuki has neatly dodged the issue in every interview so far. Tsuzuki's stance is therefore the same as everyone else in summation:

"It's gonna be vague, anything could happen, anything will happen, you can keep on wishing it'll happen, but I won't tell you if it will. Just buy my works and keep following, cos you may find your answer in future. But why should I tell you ever, when I'm doing this because I need your money or I'd go hungry!"

As Clinton once said, "It's the economy, Stupid."

Originally Posted by USB500

Hikki/Nanoha (it started as a VA joke of sort, since Hikki's married to Kawasumi Mai [Kanon])
Hayate/Aurion (Almaria resembles Hayate in one way or another)
Keroko/Noland (unknown reason, but only because I haven't looked at this place for a long time)

Aston/Subaru (SaintX)
Kaprika/Cedric/Teana love triangle (Fairly recent addition of mine)
Zone/Precia (Nighty; Alicia had to come from somewhere)
Arisa/Artei (Mine; the epitomy of a Kugimiya Byon pairing! )
Suzuka/Moriyama (Mine; a forbidden love between a teacher and his student)
Vice/Dieci (One-off crack of mine)
Karlheim/Deed (Mine; a forbidden one-sided attraction between siblings not related by blood)

Serena/Hayate (Aaron008R; Idolization)
Karlheim/Fate (Mine; a love born from a promise to Alicia)

Originally Posted by Keroko

Not really, no, KeroYuuno is in the gun waiting to be fired if they make NanoFate canon though.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Well Nanoha is in Midchilda right now and Fate too at times. She works at the TSAB it seems.

The logic fails here. Case in point: I go to this school. My little sister also goes to that school. Are we in a relationship? I think not.

Case 2: I'm now studying in Perth. Anita is studying in Singapore. Are we not in a relationship? Last I checked, I am still screaming that Anita-is-the-best-wife-in-the-entire-galaxy-swing!!! before throwing my opponents out of the thread.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

There is only ONE TRUE PAIRING in Outer Cadia:

Hayaurion.

Quote for Truth.

*ruuuuuuunz*

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Noland has the Harem Effect that Kha wishes he has.

I recognize that Kha has always read like a walkthrough to a harem game, which was my intention but completely debased the source material. Tempest worked for it, and earned it. Kha earned in through far greater efforts, but whats the point when the author only has stamina to do a walkthrough? And what's the further point when any new attempt gets snotted on and ignored?

Kha does not exist. Karlheim does. But I doubt if he can ever escape the creator's curse.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

thanks i get it now. no talk about relationships. But pfew i said only a few words. And it got blown up. Sjeesh seems like alot happened here. It's a hot battleground.

It's hot with hotblood definitely. Have you ever been in 4chan troll threads though? This place is like Antarctica compared to that.

It's not blown up, it's because you have committed the cardinal sin of challenging widely-accepted official sources. I don't know if you are just trolling us, or you really are trying to be Galileo, but either way, from my own experience, expect fierce resistance. It's a reflex trained from half a decade of battling NxF fanatics and trolls led by BPHaru, and in the OC thread, this place is a barracks full of veterans who stand for neutrality and ambiguity, and will fight to the death to defend the sanctity of the thread.

So far, by virtue of your friends, your circular logic, your sources (or lack there of) and your stubborness, we have little to be forgiving about. But I feel you have something; to have the guts to come in this town so roudy means either you are a fool, or you have something to show us.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

About costumes then. I wonder what kind of devices standard mages use. They use a device much like ragingheart.

You've noticed that too? But considering that in Season One, the grunts are already armed with the "RH massproduction", it is more likely that RH's design was inspired by the grunt's weapons, only tuned to be far better.

Another likely theory is that both RH and RHMs were inspired by an even older proto-device. To use a mecha example, like how Wing Gundam and the Leos are actually twice removed cousins and descendents of the Wing Zero Gundam. Divergent evolution, my dear Watson.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Hmm. Raising Heart/Raging Heart is an belka device which was there before the standard mage staffs.

This is left wing, and again you sir are committing that cardinal sin, as official sources clearly define what is Belka and what is Midchilda. But I understand it's perfectly reasonable to see things in a certain way, so before I march you in front of the firing squad (which to my dismay already started firing! ), I want to know how you came to this conclusion. What do you define a Belka device as? By age? Intent at construction perhaps?

Just so you know, the world does not revolve around Nanoha, Fate, RH and Bardiche. Not when the universe got expanded to the point that we are now dealing with Nanoha Obasan, Captain Vivio, and To Aru Silver no Rescue Ranger Subaru in each their own separate and official storylines. In fact, not since Lindy and Chrono appeared in S1. Like how Gundam has gone beyond Amuro Ray and Char Aznable for 2 decades now.

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

I thought we are sane and everyone else is just crazy?

True that.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Yuuno-kun found RH while excavating a site. And he used the device. He then went on the run for a monster and came across Nanoha. And that's how Nanoha got it.

I'll copy and paste my pet theory on this:

Another likely theory is that both RH and RHMs were inspired by an even older proto-device. To use a mecha example, like how Wing Gundam and the Leos are actually twice removed cousins and descendents of the Wing Zero Gundam. Divergent evolution, my dear Watson.

Doesn't disprove your's, but its a bit hard to call it Belka in that aspect. If the Chinese ripped off the French in car making, why do we still call the cars they make Chinese?

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Belkan devices can be intelligent as well.

But they aren't classed as Intelligent Devices; while they can speak, most of them are not IDs by classification. I know Strada and maybe Mach Caliber buck the trend, and those two I believe are Belka devices. So yes, Belka devices can be Intelligent Devices, but just because they speak doesn't mean they are classed as ID and not the Armed Devices they are. This is seen in the various identity cards 7Arcs have been releasing in their DVD boxsets.

Basically, an Armed Device has a limited AI and some automation, but Intelligent Devices go 1 step further, having full AI powers and automation, at the expense of increased cost and increased sensitivity to damage. (This btw is DVD booklet knowledge too, so I'll leave it to Keroko and her IS Silver Retriever if you have further doubts.)

Just FYI: Canon has provided via DVD Booklets that Belka traditionally favor Unison Devices rather than Intelligent Devices. This explains the device make-up of the Wolkenritter, a group representing Ancient Belka thinking.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Hmm this is new for me. I though RH is an ancient device that was created by Belka if I remember correctly. Or an other old civilization.

I can't refute your latter point since canon does seem to hint at it, and my pet theory does nothing to rebutt it either. However, you defining RH as Belka has me wondering. I really need you to tell us, as said earlier in this post, what is it that makes a device Belka in your eyes? If you don't give us that, we can't work our way via saner means other than the full power of everyone firing Backlog Breaker to befriend you.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

At least to my knowledge bardiche is.

You've so far demonstrated a very poor grasp of canon information, I tell you now. That's not inherently bad since ignorance is such a common commodity, but you've got to be much more open-minded and see what we have to show.

As for Bardiche, we know that Precia made Linith, and Linith made Bardiche. Fate uses Midchilda magic; so does Linith who trained her and Precia who whipped her. Sources include DVD booklet, Soundstage and even the Novel, despite all the strange canon conflicts, agree on this.

At all points we only see Midchilda; where does Belka come into play?

Furthermore, Fate isn't very old (19 now right?). Neither is Linith or Precia, in Season One; both women clearly aren't more than in their 30s. How is it then possible that, according to info booklet in StrikerS Soundstage X, the warring years ended around 150 years ago? Bardiche could not have been made during that era, and not to mention DVD booklets defined the Alicia incident to have happened 15 years before StrikerS, in MC 0050, when it is clearly the era of the Midchilda.

Given your record thus far, I believe I need more to convince you. But I only can provide you a more quant answer if you tell us what you define as a Belka device. Because your assertions are certainly flying in the face of official knowledge.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

No RH and Bardiche are both from Belka a period in where there was a development in intelligent weapons. In this period also The book of Darkness was created. It was in a battle time. I agree RH looks rather friendly. It might be from the Saint Kaiser period? But the other devices of the TSAB are made out of an image of RH. TSAB analyzes the devices and develops them further. That's how RH got it's upgrades.

I've never seen this much bull since the Mexican stampede.

I don't know whether RH is a Belka device by origin, but certainly Bardiche is not. Furthermore, Fate isn't very old (19 now right?). Neither is Linith or Precia, in Season One; both women clearly aren't more than in their 30s. How is it then possible that, according to info booklet in StrikerS Soundstage X, the warring years ended around 150 years ago? Bardiche could not have been made during that era, and not to mention DVD booklets defined the Alicia incident to have happened 15 years before StrikerS, in MC 0050, when it is clearly the era of the Midchilda.

At all points we only see Midchilda; where does Belka come into play?

Originally Posted by Yurichan

I know but it's what has the name to do with it's origin. It's just a name given by TSAB for those devices.

Ah so you mean origin? Is that how you define Belka devices? You might have a point there for RH, but then Bardiche completely tears your theory up in classifying Belka/Midchilda by origin. At all points we only see Midchilda; where does Belka come into play?

Anyway, if you want to go by origin, then all Devices are Alhazredian.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

You say all this but this is just quessing isn't it
ANd it's rather silly.

Quite on the contrary, upstart. My colleagues and I have heaped primary source material you can't be bothered to read or listen at you, and you in turn have nothing to show for yourself.

In the court of Law, this will not do. And trust me this is the court of Law.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Because the magic triangle that you mention. WHo says Belka weapons only uses triangle forms? RH uses a magic form as well. Those symbols are belka

Check the sigils closely. The 3 symbols in Belka are seen here:



These are the 4 symbols of Midchilda:



Midchilda uses 4 Greek alphabets, whereas Belka uses 3 gibberish. The sigils themselves prove they are different. And here's the deal: You don't see Midchilda devices using triangles with 3 gibberish, and you don't see Belka devices using a circle with 4 Greek letters on it. This also shows that the Devices themselves can be discriminated according to the magic cast as with the mages/knights casting it.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

They are being updated and cared for by TSAB. So they classify them as from themselves.

Then I see a conspiracy theory...

Originally Posted by Yurichan

How can you say this to me while you don't even for yourself know who made Bardiche you are just guessing

OBJECTION, your honor.

Bardiche has been defined in summation of booklet and soundstage to be made by Linith, Precia's familiar, circa MC 0060, around the time when Fate was born and being trained by Linith.

I don't see a single shred of evidence on your side. It looks like it be YOU who is guessing, punk.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

I see I read that too. But who doesn't say she used an allready found device and upgraded that one. But it's interesting to know more about it yes.

That is where your own theory and conjecture comes in, and we can't really argue against it. But please know that it is your theory, and you should not force it on people. I made that mistake before, I hope you realize it before its too late, punk.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

again this does not rule out Bardiche is Belka.

Once again, it's your theory.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

I have that's why I am so passionate about it. We just have different opinions and viewpoints. You cannot make anything hard neither can I. You assume that magic forms are distinct. While this has nothing to do with it. Neither the voices.

Yes you define Belka/Midchilda by origin, but it's your theory, and we cannot argue against it except on the points that clearly in flout of canon knowledge.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

Why are you so oppresive to a different viewpoint?

Wrong, it is you who is being oppressive of our viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

no you don't. I knew Bardiche was made by Precia or Linis. This does not rule out that Bardiche is still Belka. Bardiche could be found and used as an device. It just shows I am more intrested in Nanoha then you are since I have a wide viewpoint.

You've just shown yourself to be an even more sillier canon-stretcher than I was. And you don't have a wide viewpoint when you are suppressing ours.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

i like your enthusiasm unfortunatelly. Again created can have many meanings. It's not like I don't believe you. Just that the evidence is not solid.

So DVD Booklets and Soundstages are not solid in your view. But I don't even see you backing up your points with anything remotely to evidence, and I'm not even asking if its primary or secondary evidence. If you want to disprove us, show us your evidence. Otherwise the Moderators will continue to infract you for disturbing the peace in this town. And I certainly won't let you go any easier.

Originally Posted by Yurichan

lol it says nowhere it's about Bardiche nor Raising Heart. It's just info about Intelligent Device in general.

Both Bardiche and RH are classed as Intelligent Devices. Egro, vis a vis, that article applies to them.

As I said above, the world does not revolve around Nanoha, Fate, Bardiche and RH.



*puts down chaingun, lights cigarette and lets off a puff*


I'm done saying my piece. Get out of my thread now, punk. All 6 pages you spawned were off-topic and should have been in the General Discussion thread where you'd have been much more welcome, and have the right people to argue against.

If you aren't interested in making fandom, if you aren't interested in being the least cooperative and respect other viewpoints, if you come to my town again whining about how we are mistreating you, I'll personally see you to Hell.


*stubs out cigarette*


Go ahead, punk. Make my day.

[Anita]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

The logic fails here. Case in point: I go to this school. My little sister also goes to that school. Are we in a relationship? I think not.

Case 2: I'm now studying in Perth. Anita is studying in Singapore. Are we not in a relationship? Last I checked, I am still screaming that Anita-is-the-best-wife-in-the-entire-galaxy-swing!!! before throwing my opponents out of the thread.

................................

Ko-ko-kono BAKA INU!!!

Sacred Commander guns Kha down with heavy bolter.

[Estavali]

Isn't WHITE HOT BURNING LOVE such a beautiful thing?

On with the show! >=D

[tshouryuu]

@Thread: To play Devil's advocate for a while, I can certainly see how he can come to some of his ideas (At least I think so) and he does have a point on some things. For example, while in general intelligent devices have Mid Magic Sigils and Armed Devices have Belkan Magic Sigils, does that mean that the Intelligent Devices are Mid Childa type or the Mage is a Mid type and also, are Armed Devices Belka types or the Mage is a Belka type?

My belief (currently) is that Devices are neutral types and what Sigil shown is because of its owner's type. Strada and Mach Caliber for example are made on Mid Childa and by Shario who isn't a mage at all (at least we seen no indication that she is a mage). But what Magical Sigils do we see being Used? Belka/Neo-Belka type. As far as I remember, I don't recall either of them displaying a Mid Childa Sigil at all.

One example is Hayate during StrikerS where her limiters were released to S rank. I'm sure most of us know that Schwertkruez is a Armed device but what is the Sigil used to cast Hræsvelgr? Mid Childa Sigils. Does that mean the device is a Mid type despite us seeing it used Belka type Sigils as well? No. If you say the Mid sigil is because of a spell, you are correct. The sigil is because of a Mid spell casted by a Belka Mage-Knight.

While it is speculation, RH's origins are shrouded in mystery. All we know is that Yuuno found it at a dig site iirc and he's a Mid type mage. While Nanoha displayed a Mid Childa Sigil at first activation, is it because the device is originally a Mid type device or did Yuuno formatted it to a Mid type device? There is a possibility that it could have been a Belka type Intelligent device initially (Although personally I don't think its true) but reformatted to Mid Childa type.

As for Bardiche, I have to agree with everyone. Its not Belka Manufacture at all.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

All we know is that Yuuno found it at a dig site iirc and he's a Mid type mage.

No we don't. The whole 'Yuuno found RH at a dig-site' has always been pure speculation from the beginning.

[Saint X]

Originally Posted by Keroko

No we don't. The whole 'Yuuno found RH at a dig-site' has always been pure speculation from the beginning.

Yes thought so too...

I think that RH is either a long lost family heirloom found years later and the family in question is not even the Scrya.

RH might actually be somone else's long lost staff as well. or probably thrown away after serving it's initial purpose.

There are a lot of ways

@ Keroko:

Did you recieve my PMs or get me reply on the post you made to me?

[Keroko]

It's early, I just got out of bed, give me some time.

[Saint X]

Originally Posted by Keroko

It's early, I just got out of bed, give me some time.

oh well I have to nap for now desu~

well feel free to comment oh what i asked.

i seriously need input.

OT: Page claim for waking up/napping!

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Keroko

No we don't. The whole 'Yuuno found RH at a dig-site' has always been pure speculation from the beginning.

Opps. My bad. Sorry about that. The point that RH's origin is still a mystery stands though.