Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by JamesEdwards

Spoiler for long rant is long:

Just to add fuel to the fire, I have done a treatise on device creation before, which was promptly rejected and ridiculed by Outer Cadia at the time. Bear in mind, this is a treatise using Enforcer-verse / my home brew rules, as I'm trying to make it as realistic / Armored Core / Xenosaga-like as possible. Try comparing it with Daishi Prime's I guess to figure out works best for you.

Spoiler for J-Easy's Treatise on Magical Devices:

A Magical Device as a concept is anything that helps a Mage cast his or her spells. Therefore, even something as antiquated as a Witch's broom, a Wizard's staff, or a wand is technically still a device. Those things are still viable in their own but I won't get into that with this topic. For most people though, it is not the sort of thing they want to take into combat with them, especially with Modern Magical Devices.

Modern Magical Devices, take for example Storage Devices, are pretty sophisticated pieces of hardware. To quote my buddy Tempest Dynasty, they are smarter, more efficient, and even autonomous. I think of it as owning your personal jet fighter with its unique set of avionics and all those other necessary things you need it to fly and fight. A simpler analogy would be to just think of a Modern Magical Device as a laptop that can save your life in combat. Of course, there are bound to be civilian applications too, but that's a subject for another time.

Anyways, I am thinking you break down a Device much like any other piece of electronic hardware. The components you absolutely need to make a basic Device are:

A "Power Source" that is a Mana Generator that can turn mana into useful electricity to power all this stuff. Though you don't need it if you plan on relying only on the Mana Logic Drive listed below, or you could probably take the end product "Prana" you get from converting "Mana" in your circuits and linker core, and use that as your power source.

A Mana Logic Drive, think of it as a information reconstruction / analysis / generator / optimizer / transducer / converter that takes all that Input --- electricity, mana, will, thought, spells / "programs" --- and turns it into a useful / the desired Output, i.e. a Barrier Jacket, a Divine Buster shot, etc. The excess output from creating such a phenomenom is then vented back into the device, the environment, and user as heat, waste particles, recoil, etc. That stuff is taken care by Radiators, Mana Purifiers, stabilizers, muzzle brakes, and so on.

To quote, Tempest Dynasty, "Its primary tasks is compiler and transducer. A tranducer converts one physical variable to another, like how a speaker turns voltage into sound. It can be a physical representation, or primarily electric one. In our case, a transducer can convert raw mana into, say, electricity (Bardiche) or ice (Durandal), and the other way around, in cases of absorption fields, but like all engines, conversion is not 100%. There are no perfect engines, only some more effective than others. There's always loss and waste. Overheating~! = DOOM!"

A "Mother Circuit" / Motherboard.

A "Hard Drive" permanent storage for spells.

A"Memory" temporary or cached spells (more memory you the more you can fire off consecutively or simultaneously if you have the Mana and your CPU is fast enough).

A CPU or some kind of "Processor".

A Magi-Link Interface AKA the User Interface but it also serves as a power outlet between the Mage (who is the power source instead of your local power company) and the Device.

And then some kind of Casing, Frame, or the "Airframe" to hold it all together.

You technically don't need a CPU or Memory and it would still be a Device, but it wouldn't be a Modern Device anymore. The things that come extra after that are:

Mana Purifiers - I got inspired to put these in from Rental Magica. The reason being, I think that mana still behaves just like any conventional energy source; therefore, when you use it something has to be produced as waste, not to mention energy conversion is not 100% efficient. One of the by products that comes out is Mana Pollution --- a radioactive particle, real nasty, usually can't see it just like Mana, and it's harmful to both living creatures and the environment. Of course, it does more than just the radioactive thing but it can also cause bad magical phenomenon in the area, i.e. Curses, Hauntings, The Dead coming back to Life, Time Dilation, etc.

These babies are actually mandatory nowadays, and in my universe, there is a pretty high priority by the Bureau to clean up old battlefields of the stuff, as it's just bad news for everyone, Mages and normals alike.

Annedum: Think "Red" GN particles if all that other mumbo jumbo above doesn't make sense to you. Essentially, it's bad for the body, e.g. causes cellular degenerations, and the environment.

Radiators - Running all that hardware inside and casting magic makes device go hot. It's only natural you'd want a Radiator or two or three built-in to dissipate all that Heat.

Mana Capacitors - It's an on-board battery. Helps you do less work.

Mana Condensors / Compressors - More add-ons to help you get more of that mana and / or get it faster.

Anything else after that is pretty much extra, like an A.I. Core for example.

Have fun.



Okay, this is going to be tough to explain, since I can do it in much greater detail if I was using my homebrew rules. However, this is meant to be Nanoverse friendly, I'll see what I can do...

Assuming the Nanoverse Barrier Jacket model, essentially the SCAR-G's Barrier Jacket does output its own passive "Field Barrier". If this was Enforcerverse, I could specify exactly what kind it was, but since this is Nanoverse, I am going to keep it generic. However, in the interest of game balance, and the fact, it's a device manufactured legally, I am going to say that this Field Barrier in particular is attuned to "energy"-based attacks, a la Divine Buster and Divine Shooters.

Now, a Barrier Jacket's "Class" rating to me entails both protection and a level of battle readiness. At Class-IV, you're pretty much going to War, you're basically stereotypical SPEESH MERINES / Master Chief, and it's a pretty big and hefty program / formula that's going to take up a lot of HD space, since it offers the best protection and has a slew of built-in features.

But what does this all mean in practical terms, i.e. what's the catch?

The SCAR-G can safely "tank" one hit from a AAA-rated offensive attack, e.g. just plain Starlight Breaker, essentially the equivalent of a energy "Cannon" round. The Field Barrier will be completely destroyed and the physical Barrier Jacket will probably lose armor integrity down to 70% or less, but you'd still be able to carry on fighting. Take a moment aside to use Restoration and you'll be good as new to keep fighting.

Now an S rated attack like Starlight Breaker+ is cutting it close You'd probably want to bust out the Round Shield too at least and pray you suffer a graze or an indirect hit instead. A direct hit though...I think with a Round Shield plus the armor and field barrier rating is enough to tank a hit...but the devicer will pretty much be naked afterwards. If they're lucky, they'll still have 5% or less armor integrity left. If they've got bad luck, BJ and device are completely FUBAR'd, in which case you're pretty much screwed.

As for the actual Barrier Jacket, it's pretty darn tough as Class IVs go. Impervious to essentially "Hand Gun" and "SMG" calibre attacks, strongly resistant to "Rifle" calibre, "Shotgun" and "Machine Gun" calibre attacks could mean bad news, and "Heavy Weapons" and "High Explosives" calibre are without a doubt effective depending on how big you go and the yield. And yes, the SCAR-G's BJ is better designed to repel energy based attacks than physical bullets, since it's still built with an inevitable fight with Mid-Childan mages in mind after dispatching their screen of Belka-type mages.

That is, it's Field Barrier offers very little protection, if not none at all, against bullets. Bullets pass right through the barrier like it's not there. On the other hand, at least the BJ itself is still tough as nails.

However, a sniper with a specialist anti-material rifle could pose a serious threat, e.g. BOOM!HEADSHOT!, but you'd have to be using at least 14.5x114mm, the Soviet anti-tank and heavy machine gun round, to have a chance of scoring a one-hit kill. I personally recommend 20mm or bigger, since the thing with Barrier Jackets, after all, is that they have tendency to explode like reactive armor and damage tends to be spread out evenly over the BJ. Hence, it usually takes multiple hits or an extremely concentrated attack to score a wound or a kill.

Also, even though, the SCAR-G's BJ is a hard suit. It doesn't offer any special protection against melee weapons honestly, nor does it enhance your strength. So getting hit by spear, hammer, etc., is still going to hurt like if they manage to pierce your BJ. In fact, Hammers are particularly nice since they don't have to penetrate the BJ, they just have to hit you and you're going to be hurting for obvious reasons. Good luck actually pulling it off though, since someone with the SCAR-G, if they see you charging, and the moment you come within 4 meters of them? That's Kinesis range = e.g. LIFT + OVERKILL + Concussion Bomb = I win.

Oh, and the Barrier Jacket doesn't offer any additional protection against binds. If you get bind'ed, except to go down fast, and have to manually decode the sucker yourself. See, it was something of a design oversight, as using bind-based attacks in a War-time situation, considering the point is to kill your enemy, not capture them, usually.

All that said, allow me to tally out the list of Cons for the SCAR-G, BJ and practical performance related:

1. High Magus Aptitude required - need at least B++, recommended A.
2. Has no big gun attacks or fancy spells per say.
3. BJ is not flight proficient.
4. Difficult to use in combat since you have to be able to manage the cooldowns for your various spells well, know when to use 'em, and how to chain them together for the best result.
5. Lacking the extra punch needed to defeat Mid-types in a shootout.
6. Has to get close into CQB range to be effective; therefore, teamwork is paramount in allowing a squad to close in and engage with another squad.
7. BJ is a solid piece of kit, but you'll still get killed if someone drops 3 tons of car on you obviously, 65 tons of main battle tank rolls over you = SPLAT, or they manage to shove 2 feet of steel, real or magical, into you.
8. BJ's Field Barrier offers little or no protection against solid projectiles.
9. Offers no strength enhancement.
10. BJ offers no additional protection against Bind-type spells.

I can't think of anything else that's wrong with it. This is, after all, a top of the line piece of military hardware. Sure, it doesn't hold a candle to an officer's custom-made Device, but for grunts and most folks, it's pretty darn solid.

@Lowe: Wow, that's pretty nice, and I dig her full tactical getup. I am kinda tempted to give Mai a cameo role or appearance in the Enforcer-verse. Chainswords is always a good way to leave an unforgettable first impression.

@In General: I am gonna agree with Goose, the Anti-Pairing Brigade, and the rest of us who are sane. OC is NOT a place for ShippingTripFaggotry. Keep that to the Relationship and FanFic threads, please, for the love of sanity.

So long story short: The Jacket is highly effective against magical attacks, less against physical attack, and nearly useless against physically enhanced attacks?

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

Opps. My bad. Sorry about that. The point that RH's origin is still a mystery stands though.

Depends. All the grunts are using devices akin to Raising Heart, so it's a simple step to say that Raising Heart is a standard Mid-type device that got heavily modified down the line.

It's a theory that has visual support, while any other conspiracy theory... well... doesn't.

[Kyral]

@Kha and tshouryuu

Why do you guys say that Mach Caliber is a Belka-typ?
Mach Caliber is classified as 'Intelligent / Equip' and thus Midchilda-typ.

You are forgetting Revolver Knuckle! (and this one is a complete neutral Device, as it is only cassified as 'Equip'. Not Intelligent, not Armed, not even Storage.)


And I am stupid btw!

I was so happy that Keroko may have right with the 'white is AAS and blue is Fleet' thing that I completely forgott about the difference in skirts on the uniforms with round knobs (one colored skirts) and hollow knobs (skirts feature stripe on the lower edge).
But now it came back to bite me... Maybe the round ones are something complete different... neither fleet nor AAS.
But they are to close to the white uniforms (in fact if you only look only at the line art there is no difference between the white ones and the 'blue with round' ones.)

I so starting to hope the new mangas will provide some extra information about that.

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Depends. All the grunts are using devices akin to Raising Heart, so it's a simple step to say that Raising Heart is a standard Mid-type device that got heavily modified down the line.

It's a theory that has visual support, while any other conspiracy theory... well... doesn't.

I have to check Season 1 episode1/2 and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought how Raising Heart looks is because Nanoha imagine her to look like that... or is that the barrier jacket only?

Originally Posted by Kyral

@Kha and tshouryuu

Why do you guys say that Mach Caliber is a Belka-typ?
Mach Caliber is classified as 'Intelligent / Equip' and thus Midchilda-typ.

You are forgetting Revolver Knuckle! (and this one is a complete neutral Device, as it is only cassified as 'Equip'. Not Intelligent, not Armed, not even Storage.)


And I am stupid btw!

I was so happy that Keroko may have right with the 'white is AAS and blue is Fleet' thing that I completely forgott about the difference in skirts on the uniforms with round knobs (one colored skirts) and hollow knobs (skirts feature stripe on the lower edge).
But now it came back to bite me... Maybe the round ones are something complete different... neither fleet nor AAS.
But they are to close to the white uniforms (in fact if you only look only at the line art there is no difference between the white ones and the 'blue with round' ones.)

I so starting to hope the new mangas will provide some extra information about that.

Actually you misread my point. I said devices are typeless. No Mid type, no Belka type. What Sigil appears depends on the owner and since Subaru is a Neo-belka user, the Belka type Sigil appears.

Simply put: Devices = No magic type.
Sigil = Depends on mage.

[Kyral]

I drew the wrong conclusions from the context then, my bad.

And you are right about RH was given form by Nanoha.
After activation, Yuuno told Nanoha to use the magic to form her staff and armor, wich Nanoha did (strangly she had a much clearer image from RH than from her BJ).

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

I have to check Season 1 episode1/2 and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought how Raising Heart looks is because Nanoha imagine her to look like that... or is that the barrier jacket only?

Oh, she imagined Raising Heart's first form all right, but her 'shooting mode' was not something she imagined. Heck, it wasn't even something she knew Raising Heart had. And it's that second mode that has a very strong resemblance to the standard Mid type devices.

[MeisterBabylon]

*pulls himself together after being brutally gunned down*

Too much yan actually hurts... D=

Originally Posted by Kyral

@Kha and tshouryuu

Why do you guys say that Mach Caliber is a Belka-typ?
Mach Caliber is classified as 'Intelligent / Equip' and thus Midchilda-typ.

You are forgetting Revolver Knuckle! (and this one is a complete neutral Device, as it is only cassified as 'Equip'. Not Intelligent, not Armed, not even Storage.)

WTF is an Equip? A piece of gear that has a Use function on it? And it works just like an Armed too. XD

I forgot what in the world is Mach Caliber, but I guess that reminds me then. Interestingly, there isn't anything to deny Shou's preposition too. I think. Unless I'm forgetting something again.

Oh course I'm not going to outright say Shou is right in case somebody out there gets ideas. We still need more information.

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Oh, she imagined Raising Heart's first form all right, but her 'shooting mode' was not something she imagined. Heck, it wasn't even something she knew Raising Heart had. And it's that second mode that has a very strong resemblance to the standard Mid type devices.

Actually I think it was Yuuno that didn't know. I believe Nanoha decided it has a shooting mode and RH just reconfigured herself to fit but that brings up the possibilities that RH is of Mid Childan manufacture, made for a Mid style mage or the most remote and least likely idea, something else altogether(this one is just personal opinion and not fact).

Anyway, my point of bringing up the point that Nanoha decided the look of the device is, if she can do it, it stands to reason (poor perhaps) that the grunts' device look like Raising Heart because they want it like that aka they greatly admire Nanoha so they imitate her device's general looks as a form of fan worship. Alternatively, the point where RH is a heavily modified version of a grunts' device is also possible. Yet again, the true reason is that it could be none of them. We might want to check the devices of those mages that went in the Garden of Time first to see if their devices are similar to RH's shooting mode.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

*pulls himself together after being brutally gunned down*

Too much yan actually hurts... D=

WTF is an Equip? A piece of gear that has a Use function on it? And it works just like an Armed too. XD

I forgot what in the world is Mach Caliber, but I guess that reminds me then. Interestingly, there isn't anything to deny Shou's preposition too. I think. Unless I'm forgetting something again.

Oh course I'm not going to outright say Shou is right in case somebody out there gets ideas. We still need more information.

Let's hope I'm not right then. However, this opens up a whole lot of OC possibilities if I'm right.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

Anyway, my point of bringing up the point that Nanoha decided the look of the device is, if she can do it, it stands to reason (poor perhaps) that the grunts' device look like Raising Heart because they want it like that aka they greatly admire Nanoha so they imitate her device's general looks as a form of fan worship.

The flaw with this theory is that the grunts were using those devices long before Nanoha became as famous as she is now. Already during the first season do the mages use the Raising Heart-like Devices.

It should also be noted that Nanoha is the only known case of designing her own device with her mind. For every other device, or any other forms of Raising Heart, the design was created by mechanics. Season 1 was really the only season that hinted at this, beyond Nanoha's first and sole case, we've never seen this happen again.

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

We might want to check the devices of those mages that went in the Garden of Time first to see if their devices are similar to RH's shooting mode.

They are.

[kazenoyuuchi]

Originally Posted by Saint X

RH might actually be someone else's long lost staff as well.

Spoiler for Random:

Superior: YOU LOST YOUR DEVICE?! Do you have any idea how much money was put into developing this intelligent device? Have you ever thought about the blood and sweat that...

RH's Original Owner: Umm... May I just get a replacement device?

Superior: Sure, why not.

This just ran through my head when I read this. No idea why though...

[MeisterBabylon]

Raising Heart is what we WoW players call a Bind on Equip epic world-dropped item that was traded to Nanoha from Yuuno.

[Ottocycle]

With regards to the RH form being given by Nanoha, it'll be rather terrifying if she does the same in the movie, and as we all know, it ends up looking like a beam rifle rather than a magical girl staff...

Or will that be her preconceived idea of a magical girl staff..

A question of pedigree.

[Aaron008R]

Katoki Hajime must have been a good friend of Shiro and gave Nanoha some gunpla as gifts during his visits...>_>

[Jimmy C]

Although Yuuno told Nanoha to think of a form for her staff, perhaps a voice in her head told her, "No, no, this is what I should look like in your hands."

[Estavali]

Like this?

Yuuno: "Seek in your heart the form of your staff and Trace it!"

Nanoha: "Er.... Ah..... (What the hell is he talking about?!)" (X_X);;;

Mysterious voice: "Here."

*A design blueprint pops out from nowhere and pretty much occupied every space in her mind*

Nanoha: "Ooh, thanks!" *commencing concept copypasta*

Mysterious voice: "Don't sweat it." *cackles*



Remember, children. Never accept gifts from strangers.

[Keroko]

*years later*

Nanoha: I still wonder who that mysterious voice was...

Raising Heart: *sneezes*

Nanoha: Raising Heart? You can sneeze?

Raising Heart: [Don't mind, master.]

[panzerfan]

Well, although Nanoha is a little mechanically inclined, let's be glad that she isn't really raised in Gundam lore or RH in her hands will resemble the zero system complete with twin buster rifles, if not the beam smart gun in form. Now if Half-life made it big in Japan in 1998, RH could've been the red crowbar of freeing the guts out of people...

[MeisterBabylon]

Why Twin Busters when she already has 6...

I wonder who bought Nanoha a Nu Gundam in 2015...

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

Well, although Nanoha is a little mechanically inclined, let's be glad that she isn't really raised in Gundam lore or RH in her hands will resemble the zero system complete with twin buster rifles, if not the beam smart gun in form.

This reminds me of the time I cracked out on Linith turning Fate into a Duo Maxwell fan before giving her Bardiche for the first time.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

WTF is an Equip? A piece of gear that has a Use function on it? And it works just like an Armed too. XD

Equip is a Device form.

I already mentioned that Mach Caliber is 'Intelligent / Equip'
Other examples for 'Intelligent / Equip' are Kerykeion and of course Blitz Caliber.
Raising Heart and Bardiche are both 'Intelligent / Rod'
While Graf Eisen is 'Armed / Hammer' or Strada is 'Armed / Spear'.

Well from what I figure out is that 'Equip' means that the Device is covering a part of your body (Gloves and Shoes)

Strangly Klarwind is 'Armed / Ring' and not 'Armed / Equip'

And if you are wondering where the hell I've got that from, I've got these descriptions from the official ID-cards.

[Keroko]

Well, now that the fires of debate have calmed down, I present to thee with great pride, The Little Mechanic: