2011-07-15, 13:30 | Link #23201 | |
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Also, didn't Lambdadelta also anticipate this turn of events? I know she did for EP5, but what about EP6? |
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2011-07-15, 13:55 | Link #23202 |
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A secondary theory for some people is that Lambda's been on Battler's side from some point prior to his ascension and then has more or less been allied with him ever since. There's basically no textual support for this though, other than her apparent ability to not be surprised when Bern gets shown up time and again. But given that it's Lambdadelta, when isn't she happy to see Bern get shown up, or not expecting to beat her?
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2011-07-15, 14:24 | Link #23203 | |
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May I request some link or quote that may allow me to read his statements. To be honest, his whole "you'd have to be (or have been) a girl in love to understand Yasu's motives" felt rather silly.
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2011-07-15, 14:38 | Link #23206 |
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All I can tell you for certain is that if I ever were a girl in love (this is unlikely), I'd probably prioritize "make a telephone call" and "take a few days off and get a train ticket" over "theatrically mass-murder his entire family."
Ah, a maiden's heart.
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2011-07-15, 14:51 | Link #23207 | |
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Personally I think this is one instance where we can ignore Word of God because DID is retarded. It's probably my fault he went for it.
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2011-07-15, 15:06 | Link #23208 | ||
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How shallow... Quote:
Seriously, and here I was thinking it was some mix between the fiction theory and Yasu simply playing roles, because... well, that'd also require some mental illness, but I think that'd be easier to bypass than DID.
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2011-07-15, 15:53 | Link #23209 |
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Location: The darkest place on earth underneath a girl 's skirt
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don't know if this is a repost but this link is very important discussion with Ryukishi07 himself ,every one who read ep 8 or partly should read it http://seizonsha.wordpress.com/2011/...al-discussion/
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2011-07-15, 16:19 | Link #23210 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Maybe this was the clue that Lambda was on Battler's side the whole time? I forgot if she did it for another reason. For that matter, a question I have is why everyone knows about the red. Beatrice basically said it's a rule she created, but everyone in the story uses red as if they've have years of professional experience using it in other games. Like, Bernkastel, no there's an even better example. Dlanor and her gang in general, the red key, not only did she use red, she used it without Beatrice knowing she could, but she invented the red right? Are ALL of these characters, including Bern and Lamb, just some creation of her? Bern and Lamb are two people, just like Shannon and Kannon are two people, with Beatrice being the third, confusing. Last edited by cronnoponno; 2011-07-15 at 16:34. |
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2011-07-15, 17:28 | Link #23211 | ||
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That would indeed be the link, Alcindor. Thank you very much.
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2011-07-15, 18:40 | Link #23213 | |
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It's almost as if Lambdadelta wants Battler to become stronger and learn the truth himself, if she really wanted to aid the human side, did she really have to go out of her way to make Ange do it? There were other ways to help Battler ''win'', what Ange's basic role was in that situation was to restore Battler's purpose, didn't Bernkastel's master lose her purpose, and thus create a logic error that trapped Bernkastel ''forever''? When it came to Beatrice, all she had to do to get her to continue the game is kill her off and take control herself, there was almost literally no possible way Battler's existence would have hindered her ability to keep Bernkastel in this game in the slightest. There seems to be a stronger connection between this than Lambdadelta just trying to keep things going on endlessly, and even if that was the case, I highly doubt she'd get so overly emotional that she'd run up to Battler and yell at him in desperation. It just seems a little strange. |
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2011-07-15, 19:20 | Link #23214 | |
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And killing Battler off isn't an option, because of Beatrice. If Beatrice doesn't fight Battler, she doesn't fight at all. And they could only pull off about half a game before Beatrice dies. She transferred Territory Lord status to Battler, but if that wasn't possible, the entire Gameboard would be lost, and they can't play with it anymore.
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2011-07-15, 23:01 | Link #23217 |
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He does consistently describe Shkanon as being like multiple people, with conflicting thoughts and desires. The intent is incredibly clear and it's certainly the most obvious interpretation.
That said, I don't think Yasu actually has DID. Ryukishi's demonstrated that he hasn't put as much thought in this series as we have.
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2011-07-16, 07:33 | Link #23218 | |
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Considering the software metaphor, I would say he meant it in a way that all "personalities" are just software who keep the "mainframe" Yasu running. But it does not mean that it's only explanation is actuall DID. Yasu said that he gave everything up to fate (her roulette) so every decision would be better described by her being totally unable to decide and only being lead by chance and momentary emotions rather than her not having power over her thoughts. It's not like she did not have any power over the decisions of let's say Kanon or Beatrice...she just did not try to execute any control over her emotions anymore. Even if she did some costumeplay on the island it's not said that the same amount of personality switching that is implied in her and Tôya's stories is actually necessary in reality. It's not like she actually stood in Jessica's room during EP2 and fought with herself over wether to kill Jessica or not. I'd rather say it was an inner struggle wether to follow the plan of the roulette or her heart. DID would imply that she could actually be perceived changing into different characters by outside people...but if she did anything I'd say she changed her manner of appearance based on which role she was playing right now. People always take on roles to enable themselves to play out certain parts...the way Umineko is written only takes the visualization to a new level. But such a role can actually become a fullblown person if enough people interact with it...but only because somebody might be two different people, for example at his job and at home, that does not make it DID. I think DID is just a handy excuse to explain Yasu's inability to take some action...the only way of not feeling the need to just grab her and shake her for following a script she had written herself only because she wanted to believe in destiny so much. But yeah...Ryűkishi loves his antisocial nutjobs... |
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2011-07-16, 08:12 | Link #23219 | |
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Shannon and Kanon are something closer to the "little angel" and "little demon" of our consciousness cliche then alternate personalities or different people. However within the fiction of Umineko's message bottles/scripts, Yasu portrayed them as different people fully. It's really an author's thing to "portray themselves through multiple characters and not just a single one" so it's nothing strange either. In the "real world" they are nothing but inner feelings and thoughts, mixed, of Yasu. In the world of fiction these take definitive forms. Yasu being "behind both" should be seen closer to playing roles in a play. Course this is just another theory/vision on things. You don't need to look down on Ryuukishi as we are not told enough really clearly to even be certain of ... much/anything. So unless this is what you're looking down on him from, whatever other reasons is something we ourselves decide he did/didn't do. However there's things like his WW2 submarine knowledge that makes me certain Ryuukishi makes sure to know what he's talking about before talking about something. |
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2011-07-16, 12:22 | Link #23220 | |
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Theory : It should be impossible to verify Kanon's existence in R=Prime. It would just take people from Fukuin going "Yeah there was that quiet Yasu girl, but we didn't have any kid like this Yoshiya/Kanon." All the other safety deposit boxes Nanjo Jr. saw was Yasu, before the incident, literally paying off every person she knew from Fukuin to maintain silence on the matter. |
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