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Shippuu · 2021-05-09, 09:42

Fate says Ialda may have always been broken. But also that she may be broken because of the Resonance. In that case the argument isn't really valid because the Resonance is an external factor and not inherent to immortality itself. Dana and Nikitis have never been shown as anything but happy even after thousands of years, but under the influence of the Resonance they might have turned out no different than Ialda.

Akamatsu doesn't seem interested in developing Ialda in any way but I think you're making a lot of assumptions. Maybe the Resonance was Ialda's own fault. Maybe it wasn't. It wouldn't make sense for her to choose it like Sayoko when she had the option of infinite energy through the White of Mars and Black of Venus but I don't expect any clarification from Akamatsu. But there is no reason to assume she could get rid of it whenever she wanted to and just chooses not to out of some ridiculous complex. If anything what little dialogue she had in Negima seems to indicate otherwise.

Immortality would probably be a disaster in real life but this is a fictional story. Dana and Nikitis have been around for tens of thousands of years and have never been portrayed as anything but happy. Likewise, the true Kosmo Entelekheia has never been presented as anything but flawless. We don't actually know if it truly is but unless the author says otherwise there is no reason to assume it couldn't magically keep people happy forever. Letting people chose to go to Kosmo Entelekheia would be an option, but considering we're likely talking about billions of people here I don't see how you could possibly accomplish this on any realistic scale.

And yes, you're not interacting with the people you knew in reality. But you won't know or care. I understand the argument but have never been entirely fond of it because it often sounds like you're guilt-tripping someone for your sake rather than theirs. It also doesn't take into account that plenty of people have no loved ones at all. That's another point that irks me about these stories. Too many people cannot imagine the suffering many others go through even at this very second and seem to assume most are like themselves and only have to worry about comparatively trivial stuff.

Negima did a decent job in the Chao arc. It failed to mention the fact that creating new timelines is basically a form of escapism in itself where you also abandon people that care about you and that rewriting the timeline is effectively mass murder on a universal scale (not to mention it may prevent many of those people from being born again due to changes in the timeline) but it was something. Maybe I'm the one at fault for expecting too much from a Shounen manga but I'm just not invested in a story and antagonist that feels like a shallow parody.

Endscape · 2021-05-09, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Immortality would probably be a disaster in real life but this is a fictional story. Dana and Nikitis have been around for tens of thousands of years and have never been portrayed as anything but happy.

And we just got a chapter where Karin was contemplating the hell of living eternally. I'm not so sure we could call Dana and Niktis happy either. They spend all their time living apart from human interaction unless the world is coming to an end, and Dana's comments about taking the time to contemplate killing yourself has the ring of something she herself has thought of frequently.

Quote:

Likewise, the true Kosmo Entelekheia has never been presented as anything but flawless. We don't actually know if it truly is but unless the author says otherwise there is no reason to assume it couldn't magically keep people happy forever.

The true Cosmo Entelecheia is more or less a metaphor for death. People go there and never come back.

Quote:

Letting people chose to go to Kosmo Entelekheia would be an option, but considering we're likely talking about billions of people here I don't see how you could possibly accomplish this on any realistic scale.

It's better to accomplish good on a small scale day to day than becoming a tyrant and forcing your idea of good on everyone in existence.

Take Nagi for example. He saved the world, but the most important work he did was the aid work he did after that.

Negi saved the world too, but the most important thing he accomplished was Project Blue Mars.

NapoleonDeCheese · 2021-05-09, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Maybe the Resonance was Ialda's own fault. Maybe it wasn't. It wouldn't make sense for her to choose it like Sayoko when she had the option of infinite energy through the White of Mars and Black of Venus but I don't expect any clarification from Akamatsu.

(...)

Immortality would probably be a disaster in real life but this is a fictional story. Dana and Nikitis have been around for tens of thousands of years and have never been portrayed as anything but happy. Likewise, the true Kosmo Entelekheia has never been presented as anything but flawless. We don't actually know if it truly is but unless the author says otherwise there is no reason to assume it couldn't magically keep people happy forever.

That sure is a fancy workaround way to just saying the series and setting are badly written and anything that happens is left conveniently vague to save the author hassles.

Quote:

And yes, you're not interacting with the people you knew in reality. But you won't know or care. I understand the argument but have never been entirely fond of it because it often sounds like you're guilt-tripping someone for your sake rather than theirs. It also doesn't take into account that plenty of people have no loved ones at all. That's another point that irks me about these stories. Too many people cannot imagine the suffering many others go through even at this very second and seem to assume most are like themselves and only have to worry about comparatively trivial stuff.

Sooooo... if I'm in a setting where Heaven exists for sure, will that make it okay going around killing good people who are suffering in life, just so they can go enjoy their eternal reward in Heaven already?

Malicre · 2021-05-12, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGSnewtype

We're reaching the end folks, are you ready?

Who wants to bet with me that Eva will be killed off or disappeared in the final chapter so he can use her for negima 3 / uq holder 2?

BassGSnewtype · 2021-05-13, 01:08

I wouldn't bet against it at this point

Shippuu · 2021-06-08, 10:48

Oh boy. 184 is the most explicit one yet. In fact I really don't think he can get anymore explicit without making actual porn. No, Akamatsu, that's not a challenge. And it doesn't help the participants look like they're in their early teens. It feels like this entire filler arc exists just so Akamatsu can have another "UQ Holder, assemble" moment for what is like the third time already while simultaneously making borderline hentai as a last hurrah before retiring. More off-screen battles (this one would have actually been pretty interesting) and Dana upholds her vow of non-interference by interfering yet again.

I feel nothing but disgust at this point. At least he finally ran out of girls until they save Yukihime and end the story on a massive orgy. After he redeems Ialda by fucking the despair out of her. Blegh.

XFire · 2021-06-08, 13:43

At this point I'm convinced Akamatsu just wants to end it and is deliberately trying to get it canceled

Shippuu · 2021-06-08, 14:12

He doesn't need to. It's already confirmed to end in February 2022. He can do whatever he wants because he has nothing to lose.

AP24 · 2021-06-08, 15:50

What was the point of making Kirie have a body of a 14-15 year old? Touta has a body of a 12 year old so it should be fine if Kirie’s body is still of a 12 year old. I guess Akamatsu does not want to draw Touta having sex with a girl with a loli body. I suppose this means Eva won’t be in her loli form when she has sex with Touta.

NapoleonDeCheese · 2021-06-08, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shippuu

At least he finally ran out of girls.

What do you mean? He still has to have sex with Dana in her own H-chapter.

Endscape · 2021-06-08, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Oh boy. 185 is the most explicit one yet. In fact I really don't think he can get anymore explicit without making actual porn. No, Akamatsu, that's not a challenge. And it doesn't help the participants look like they're in their early teens. It feels like this entire filler arc exists just so Akamatsu can have another "UQ Holder, assemble" moment for what is like the third time already while simultaneously making borderline hentai as a last hurrah before retiring. More off-screen battles (this one would have actually been pretty interesting) and Dana upholds her vow of non-interference by interfering yet again.

I feel nothing but disgust at this point. At least he finally ran out of girls until they save Yukihime and end the story on a massive orgy. After he redeems Ialda by fucking the despair out of her. Blegh.

Considering all the stuff Akamatsu keeps going on about "political correctness" stifling mangakas, I wonder if this is his response.

Tenzen12 · 2021-06-08, 23:47

It's really shame. Initially this was better then Negima.

Shippuu · 2021-06-09, 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

It's really shame. Initially this was better then Negima.

I thought it was always mediocre at best but I will say that compared to what it is now, early UQ Holder was much better. Santa's arc in particular was the manga's peak as far as I'm concerned, and the last time UQ Holder had anything resembling heart.

It's not even about the Negima stuff or the switch to a monthly format either. It feels like pre-race UQ Holder was written by a different person.

Twi · 2021-06-09, 12:53

It had potential when it was looking at the class disparity caused by the introduction of magic, and Santa's arc was a masterpiece, but after that chapter looking at the original timeline, it's just...

It fell off the wagon.

SilverGlavenus · 2021-06-09, 23:42

Kinda bittersweet that Kirie is going to get old. Hoping that she will become immortal again.

RDNexus · 2021-06-10, 01:50

Thought so as well... Quite unfair to her...

AP24 · 2021-06-24, 22:52

I just realized that Asuna in Negima woke up in the year 2135 and it’s currently the year 2133 in UQ Holder. So I guess UQ Holder’s timeline really is the same as the one where Asuna woke up in Negima. The Asuna in UQ Holder and Negima good end are the same and Yukihime is also the same Eva that helped Asuna go back to the past with Chao Rinshen’s help.

So I can pretty much guess some of the things that will happen after Ialda is defeated. Asuna will wake up but has no memories of the events in UQ Holder. Chao will appear and meet with Yukihime and they bring Asuna to the past which would form the Negima good end timeline. After that we see how UQ Holder ends.

XFire · 2021-06-24, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP24

I just realized that Asuna in Negima woke up in the year 2135 and it’s currently the year 2133 in UQ Holder. So I guess UQ Holder’s timeline really is the same as the one where Asuna woke up in Negima. The Asuna in UQ Holder and Negima good end are the same and Yukihime is also the same Eva that helped Asuna go back to the past with Chao Rinshen’s help.

So I can pretty much guess some of the things that will happen after Ialda is defeated. Asuna will wake up but has no memories of the events in UQ Holder. Chao will appear and meet with Yukihime and they bring Asuna to the past which would form the Negima good end timeline. After that we see how UQ Holder ends.

Which also means this version of Negi dies with a satisfied smile.

Or already did. I kinda zoned out a bit in the past few chapters, is Negi already dead?

Dargor · 2021-06-26, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP24

Asuna will wake up but has no memories of the events in UQ Holder.

Likely because the Asuna that Touta and co spoke to was a amalgamation of the Kagurazaka and Twilight Princess personalities, which doesn't really seem to have happened even at the end of Negima when she woke up. Don't ask me how its supposed to make sense, that's something UQ Holder is loath to do.

Quote:

Or already did. I kinda zoned out a bit in the past few chapters, is Negi already dead?

Supposedly, but that seems unceremoniously dumb, even for this series. I expect he'll show up for all about twenty seconds and the series gets wrapped up with a pretty bow.

NapoleonDeCheese · 2021-06-27, 21:20

If Negi is dead, how do his partners still have Pactios? Did Ialda make new ones with them?

Also, it's kind of pointless to bring Chisame back only after Negi is dead if you aren't going to reunite them. What else is Chisame narratively good for at this point? I mean, she isn't a frontline fighter so it's dumb to just throw her against UQ Holder, and any hacking probably can be done by Ikkuu.

Ialda has so much control over the dead that even if Nagi and Negi are dead she should be able to bring them back as more puppets whenever it fits her.

As for Asuna, I figure that, if they're going to send her back to the past to make the good timeline come to pass, they might just delete her memories (wouldn't it even be the first time she gets a memory wipe as that was her whole deal in Negima) so she can have a happy life without the burden of all that happened here.

2021-05-09, 09:42	Link #7141
Shippuu ┐(-｡ｰ')┌ Join Date: Jan 2017	Fate says Ialda may have always been broken. But also that she may be broken because of the Resonance. In that case the argument isn't really valid because the Resonance is an external factor and not inherent to immortality itself. Dana and Nikitis have never been shown as anything but happy even after thousands of years, but under the influence of the Resonance they might have turned out no different than Ialda. Akamatsu doesn't seem interested in developing Ialda in any way but I think you're making a lot of assumptions. Maybe the Resonance was Ialda's own fault. Maybe it wasn't. It wouldn't make sense for her to choose it like Sayoko when she had the option of infinite energy through the White of Mars and Black of Venus but I don't expect any clarification from Akamatsu. But there is no reason to assume she could get rid of it whenever she wanted to and just chooses not to out of some ridiculous complex. If anything what little dialogue she had in Negima seems to indicate otherwise. Immortality would probably be a disaster in real life but this is a fictional story. Dana and Nikitis have been around for tens of thousands of years and have never been portrayed as anything but happy. Likewise, the true Kosmo Entelekheia has never been presented as anything but flawless. We don't actually know if it truly is but unless the author says otherwise there is no reason to assume it couldn't magically keep people happy forever. Letting people chose to go to Kosmo Entelekheia would be an option, but considering we're likely talking about billions of people here I don't see how you could possibly accomplish this on any realistic scale. And yes, you're not interacting with the people you knew in reality. But you won't know or care. I understand the argument but have never been entirely fond of it because it often sounds like you're guilt-tripping someone for your sake rather than theirs. It also doesn't take into account that plenty of people have no loved ones at all. That's another point that irks me about these stories. Too many people cannot imagine the suffering many others go through even at this very second and seem to assume most are like themselves and only have to worry about comparatively trivial stuff. Negima did a decent job in the Chao arc. It failed to mention the fact that creating new timelines is basically a form of escapism in itself where you also abandon people that care about you and that rewriting the timeline is effectively mass murder on a universal scale (not to mention it may prevent many of those people from being born again due to changes in the timeline) but it was something. Maybe I'm the one at fault for expecting too much from a Shounen manga but I'm just not invested in a story and antagonist that feels like a shallow parody. Last edited by Shippuu; 2021-05-09 at 09:52.

2021-05-13, 01:08	Link #7145
BassGSnewtype The Sword of Darkness Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Langran, La Gias	I wouldn't bet against it at this point __________________ Explain it to my *Bear Knuckles!!*

2021-06-08, 10:48	Link #7146
Shippuu ┐(-｡ｰ')┌ Join Date: Jan 2017	Oh boy. 184 is the most explicit one yet. In fact I really don't think he can get anymore explicit without making actual porn. No, Akamatsu, that's not a challenge. And it doesn't help the participants look like they're in their early teens. It feels like this entire filler arc exists just so Akamatsu can have another "UQ Holder, assemble" moment for what is like the third time already while simultaneously making borderline hentai as a last hurrah before retiring. More off-screen battles (this one would have actually been pretty interesting) and Dana upholds her vow of non-interference by interfering yet again. I feel nothing but disgust at this point. At least he finally ran out of girls until they save Yukihime and end the story on a massive orgy. After he redeems Ialda by fucking the despair out of her. Blegh. Last edited by Shippuu; 2021-06-09 at 05:02.

2021-06-08, 13:43	Link #7147
XFire 150% done Join Date: Feb 2012	At this point I'm convinced Akamatsu just wants to end it and is deliberately trying to get it canceled __________________

2021-06-08, 23:47	Link #7152
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	It's really shame. Initially this was better then Negima. __________________ "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)

2021-06-08, 14:12	Link #7148
Shippuu ┐(-｡ｰ')┌ Join Date: Jan 2017	He doesn't need to. It's already confirmed to end in February 2022. He can do whatever he wants because he has nothing to lose.

2021-06-08, 15:50	Link #7149
AP24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011	What was the point of making Kirie have a body of a 14-15 year old? Touta has a body of a 12 year old so it should be fine if Kirie’s body is still of a 12 year old. I guess Akamatsu does not want to draw Touta having sex with a girl with a loli body. I suppose this means Eva won’t be in her loli form when she has sex with Touta.

2021-06-09, 12:53	Link #7154
Twi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	It had potential when it was looking at the class disparity caused by the introduction of magic, and Santa's arc was a masterpiece, but after that chapter looking at the original timeline, it's just... It fell off the wagon. __________________

2021-06-09, 23:42	Link #7155
SilverGlavenus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Somewhere in this Universe	Kinda bittersweet that Kirie is going to get old. Hoping that she will become immortal again.

2021-06-10, 01:50	Link #7156
RDNexus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portugal Age: 36	Thought so as well... Quite unfair to her...

2021-06-24, 22:52	Link #7157
AP24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011	I just realized that Asuna in Negima woke up in the year 2135 and it’s currently the year 2133 in UQ Holder. So I guess UQ Holder’s timeline really is the same as the one where Asuna woke up in Negima. The Asuna in UQ Holder and Negima good end are the same and Yukihime is also the same Eva that helped Asuna go back to the past with Chao Rinshen’s help. So I can pretty much guess some of the things that will happen after Ialda is defeated. Asuna will wake up but has no memories of the events in UQ Holder. Chao will appear and meet with Yukihime and they bring Asuna to the past which would form the Negima good end timeline. After that we see how UQ Holder ends.

2021-06-27, 21:20	Link #7160
NapoleonDeCheese Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016	If Negi is dead, how do his partners still have Pactios? Did Ialda make new ones with them? Also, it's kind of pointless to bring Chisame back only after Negi is dead if you aren't going to reunite them. What else is Chisame narratively good for at this point? I mean, she isn't a frontline fighter so it's dumb to just throw her against UQ Holder, and any hacking probably can be done by Ikkuu. Ialda has so much control over the dead that even if Nagi and Negi are dead she should be able to bring them back as more puppets whenever it fits her. As for Asuna, I figure that, if they're going to send her back to the past to make the good timeline come to pass, they might just delete her memories (wouldn't it even be the first time she gets a memory wipe as that was her whole deal in Negima) so she can have a happy life without the burden of all that happened here.