Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Haruyasha]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I thought that aspect of the scene in the bar was quite poorly directed. Was Ledo looking at the stage? It seemed like he was looking in an entirely different direction throughout, either in horror at the "Hideauze" on his plate, or toward the waitress, or toward his potential employers. If he was looking at the girls, it wasn't made obvious.

Really? Must be a person to person case.. I personally had the idea right from the start that he was staring at Aimi..

[DuelGundam2099]

Was Ledo looking at the stage?

As someone who is asexual I can tell you that he most likely was not and is more likely he simply tried ignoring the two blabber mouths in front of him. Can't say I blame him, I tend to do that too when annoying people jabber on about nothing.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I raised a daughter and knew a number of girls in the 11-13 range who had "developed". It's pretty common in modern America. The average age at menarche is around 12.5.

My reaction to Amy has more to do with her facial design than her body. Her facial appearance is quite juvenile for someone who is supposed to be sixteen.

Baby faces are relatively more common among Asians. Heck, I'm 26 but look 21. And when I was 21 I looked 17. If anything, the facial vs actual age gap is actually increasing with time, as time seems to be passing disproportionately more quickly than my body is capable of aging. If my parents are anything to go by, this effect won't reach equilibrium itself until I'm in my mid 40s, at which point I will just begin to look my age. I can still recall my father looking 30 when he was 38, and my mother looking 27 when she was 34.

[Tenzen12]

This show is weird. Why they do close-ups of some kids when there is Bellows in same room? That just doesn't make any sense!

But seriously even though I weren't originaly sure if I should ship, I can't help but find Ledo x Amy weird, she realy isn't much more than kid andI think he should be with someone more mature. If that someone happen to be Ceirtain Redhead I guess I wouldn't particulary mind (at least she would get more screentime).

[joshuafaramir]

Originally Posted by GDB

My only problem with the belly dancing is that it's the same three girls we've seen the entire series. What, are they the only girls under 25 years old in the entire floating city?

THEY WANT LEDO'S SEED. That's why they're trying to entice him with the girls who he's comfortable with and already know. Durr man

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I don't have a narrow view of anything. I am saying it isn't meant to represent "culture" it is meant to be "fanservice".

Trying to say it is meant to be culture comes off as extremely stupid. And you can easily show "belly dancing" without it being objectifying.

Heck even in this episode there is a sharp contrast between Amy's dance and the dance at the beginning.

And I am not a he!

At no point did I ever say that the fan service is "meant" to represent culture. I am making the point that fan service IS a cultural feature, regardless of whether it is meant to be or not. Also, I have nothing against objectification. For the record though, I'm in favor of Ledo x Bellows, and she hasn't done any major fan service yet (or at all) if I am recalling her correctly.

[lightbringer]

Fanservice in this episode was fine. And no, Amy does not look like she's 12, that's just what anime girls look like

On a more serious note, going by all the serious faces in the preview, either the creature really was a Hideauze, which strikes me as unlikely at this stage (although a genetic connection may exist), or Ledo seriously mucked something up during its accidental annihilation. Either way, looks like things are gonna get serious now that we are getting into the second half of the season. I was already having a bad premonition of "farewell" during Amy's private dance show but now I'm seriously worried about Amy and Ledo's future together

[Haruyasha]

It's a real shame this series is so misunderstood.. I personally think the main character's development is very strong. Like I said, the series is addressing the issues it brought up in the first episode.. In that sense, Amy's "fanservice" isn't all that empty and meaningless..

I do not think that putting the 1 + 1 together is really that difficult.

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

As someone who is asexual

That's nice.. Perhaps you need to be sent to a devoid water planet, too.. Sitting here all day, I don't think you'll change much as an individual.

[Folenfant]

Can the belly dancing not just be both a cultural thing and a fan service thing cause I think it is. It's kind of like how the music video in Valvrave's recent episode was both a fundraising gambit for the newly independent colony and a way to send a message to the outside world that they're not all dead yet but also clearly fan service.

Personally I'm just glad that it looks like the story will be taking it's next step next episode. I feel I've gotten to know all I need to know about Amy and her friends and Ledo has had enough standing by and learning the ways of the Gargantia that it's a great time for further development of the shows overall core plot.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Lol I am starting to get the feeling now that the real issue is that Kim is against objectification.

[Helius]

Originally Posted by Haruyasha

99.7% probability.. Implying .3% they're wrong.

Although, tbh... I kinda wish it is the Hideauze.. this series is dragging out way too long.

I'm with the Hedeauze being evolved from those mutated sea creatures. The 0.3% probably just accounts for the genetic discrepancies in the evolutionary ladder.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

At no point did I ever say that the fan service is "meant" to represent culture. I am making the point that fan service IS a cultural feature, regardless of whether it is meant to be or not.

But I don't see much difference between fanservice in Japanese anime and fanservice in US productions. This is what I mean when I don't see my complaints as a lack of cultural understanding.

I am also not saying "belly dancing" can't be part of the characters culture. But the way it was animated (at least the first part) comes off as just adding more fan service.

It's not the belly dancing itself is the problem to me. It's the way the camera pans to the girls boobs and behind that feels objectional to me. I admit it wasn't the worst thing ever (and I said as much in previous posts) but lets not kid ourselves that this scene was primarily meant to be fanservice not tell us anything important about Gargantia culture.

Lol I am starting to get the feeling now that the real issue is that Kim is against objectification.

Of course. Is there something wrong about that?

[Haruyasha]

Originally Posted by Helius

I'm with the Hedeauze being evolved from those mutated sea creatures. The 0.3% probably just accounts for the genetic discrepancies in the evolutionary ladder.

Yes, the idea that humans aren't the only ones who evolve slipped my mind.. But the fact that all Hideauze look like snails, squids, and plants really supports that idea.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But I don't see much difference between fanservice in Japanese anime and fanservice in US productions. This is what I mean when I don't see my complaints as a lack of cultural understanding.

I am also not saying "belly dancing" can't be part of the characters culture. But the way it was animated (at least the first part) comes off as just adding more fan service.

It's not the belly dancing itself is the problem to me. It's the way the camera pans to the girls boobs and behind that feels objectional to me. I admit it wasn't the worst thing ever (and I said as much in previous posts) but lets not kid ourselves that this scene was primarily meant to be fanservice not tell us anything important about Gargantia culture.

I'm not pretending that it was supposed to be some expression of Gargantian culture. I'm saying that providing fan service is a part of OUR culture. I'm also not saying that this is a matter of cultural understanding. Just because you're a part of US culture doesn't mean you're automatically in favor of all the features of your own culture. Hence there's no contradiction that you're both American and are opposed to American fan service. Likewise I am sure plenty of Japanese women are against Japanese fan service

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Of course. Is there something wrong about that?

Of course not. No need to be so defensive about your choice. My point is only that watching shounen anime and then complaining about fan service is like drinking a bottle of wine and then complaining about a hangover. When I make the decision to give a shounen anime a try, I'm going into it with the understanding that there is likely to be some degree of fan service, whether gratuitous or not.

[Jan-Poo]

I really liked this episode from start to end in my opinion it was really well executed.

This episode managed to have even more fan service than the plotwise "pointless" swimsuit episode that we have seen last time, but this time it actually makes sense and it is really well done.

There's an enormous difference from fanservices where the girls just stick their bums in absolutely improbable and awkward positions for no reason and fanservices that are actually part of the plot.
In this case the girls were performing dances that were clearly meant to show and exalt their young bodies. It's not just something done for the public behind the 4th wall, it's done for the characters in the stories, they aren't doing that for no reason.

These dances had the twofold purpose of showing yet another bit of the culture of the Gargantians and Ledo's reaction to it. It was important that Ledo at this point would be mesmerized by both yet another cultural aspect that doesn't exist in his world and the sexuality inherent in Amy's dance which is also repressed where he always lived.

And I sure enjoyed seeing Ledo's reaction as well as seeing the beginning of the romance between he and her. The fact that he felt embarrassed when he realized he was touching her is clear sing of this albeit a but clicheed and typical of the Japanese culture.


Regarding the very last part, I'm also of the idea that the giant squid we have seen isn't a Hideauze coming from space but a close relative of them which are already known to exist by the Gargantians.

Originally Posted by Dop

Also I thought Ledo's reaction to the octopus did have an element of PTSD about it.

That really surprised me. Ledo said that he stopped feeling fear at the very start of this series, but seeing as how he reacted to that mutated octopus he sure didn't show that.

Let's disregard his quick reaction that could simply be conditioning, but he was sweating and breathing heavily.

I loved Pinion hiding behind the table though XD

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

I'm not pretending that it was supposed to be some expression of Gargantian culture. I'm saying that providing fan service is a part of OUR culture. I'm also not saying that this is a matter of cultural understanding. Just because you're a part of US culture doesn't mean you're automatically in favor of all the features of your own culture. Hence there's no contradiction that you're both American and are opposed to American fan service. Likewise I am sure plenty of Japanese women are against Japanese fan service.

Okay well I am not sure I entirely agree with all this but at least I think we are coming to an understanding.

Please note my original post about Otaku culture does not equal Japanese culture is because of someone saying our culture is so prude (I assumed this meant Western culture). This is what I was disagreeing with that people who are not fans of this type of fanservice are just prudes and don't understand that Japanese culture is different. That was my main objection when I said that fanservice is no way a representation of Japanese culture as a whole.

And also although you personally weren't saying that the scenes were meant to be a representation of Gargantia culture, other people certainly were.

Of course not. No need to be so defensive about your choice. My point is only that watching shounen anime and then complaining about fan service is like drinking a bottle of wine and then complaining about a hangover.

Eh plenty of shounen anime don't have fanservice. Also like I said while the girls were kind of scantily dressed from the beginning the fanservice has been amped up starting with episode 3.

It doesn't ruin the anime for me by any means but it is a bit disappointing.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Okay well I am not sure I entirely agree with this but at least I think we are coming to an understanding.

Please note my original post about Otaku culture does not equal Japanese culture is because of someone saying our culture is so prude (I assumed this meant Western culture). This is what I was disagreeing with that people who are not fans of this type of fanservice or just prudes and don't understand that Japanese culture is different. That was my main objection when I said that fanservice is no way a representation of Japanese culture as a whole.

And also although you personally weren't saying that the scenes were meant to be a representation of Gargantia culture, other people certainly were.

Yes well that was never my argument. It was somebody else's. You should direct your argument to the correct person! lol.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I thought that aspect of the scene in the bar was quite poorly directed. Was Ledo looking at the stage? It seemed like he was looking in an entirely different direction throughout, either in horror at the "Hideauze" on his plate, or toward the waitress, or toward his potential employers. If he was looking at the girls, it wasn't made obvious.

Ledo looks at the stage once Bellows and Pinion really start arguing and Bellows actually bends down so that she's out of his line of sight to the stage, at which point he is staring blankly at Amy. The moment is very short, during the entire preceding conversation he is not paying any attention to the stage at all, and right after that he draws his sidearm on the main course.

It does make the point, but holding the scene for a moment longer or showing Ledo and Amy making eye contact then would have helped.

The octopus horror moment is a good setup for the final scene, but during the actual restaurant scene it messed up my recollection of events enough that I barely remembered Ledo noticing the stage until I rewatched. Also, editing in T&A shots of the dancing girls while Ledo and Pinion were having their conversation actually made those events feel more separated instead of connected.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But I don't see much difference between fanservice in Japanese anime and fanservice in US productions. This is what I mean when I don't see my complaints as a lack of cultural understanding.

I am also not saying "belly dancing" can't be part of the characters culture. But the way it was animated (at least the first part) comes off as just adding more fan service.

It's not the belly dancing itself is the problem to me. It's the way the camera pans to the girls boobs and behind that feels objectional to me. I admit it wasn't the worst thing ever (and I said as much in previous posts) but lets not kid ourselves that this scene was primarily meant to be fanservice not tell us anything important about Gargantia culture.



Of course. Is there something wrong about that?

What's the cultural significance of Carneival in Brazil? This was a festival in a similar light and that's how I think people should approach it, and simply kick back and have fun like they try to do with Ledo. In my mind, that he asked for a repeat performance afterwards symbolized that because initially he didn't pay attention. Plus by you logic of objectification we should throw out nude sculptures and paintings. Nor accusing you of meaning that but that's what it implies to me.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Eh plenty of shounen anime don't have fanservice. Also like I said while the girls were kind of scantily dressed from the beginning the fanservice has been amped up starting with episode 3.

Yes. And not every bottle of wine will lead to a hangover. My point still stands. Shounen anime may not always have gratuitous fan service, but the odds of it are certainly much greater than if you're watching something else.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

It doesn't ruin the anime for me by any means but it is a bit disappointing.

Poor baby. Want a hug? I find this whole conversation ironic, since I'm also not really into the fan service because of the important way in which it takes precious limited minutes and animation budget away from the main attraction.

That being said, I know how to enjoy myself some delicious objectification. Omnomnom human meat market.