Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Fighting fire with fire only works if used as reverse psychology. If used literally, yes, it is retarded.
...Unless it's one of those cases where you need to take out a big fire with an explosion that sucks out all oxygen and stuff...

not really
beat up enough people and no one wants to attack you anymore for fear of what you'll do to them

[Roloko vi Britannia]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

YOUR LIFE!!... I mean, is Luciano an option?

Marianne was interesting as not only was she showed to be caring and charismatic, but was also batshit insane about Charles ragnirock

Bismarck? He deserved more screen time. He was a cool character to look at, and both his seiyuu and dub did a good job at portraying him.

Knight of Round disappointments:

Monica (...Two seconds, wow. Lelouch has a run for his money, and we all know how well he runs.)

Dorothea (...1.5 seconds... Wow, Look out Lelouch!)

Gino (...Dude, only twice you were cool. Both times you saved Kallen. Good for you, you aren't a complete douchebag.)

Luciano (..McDouche the Jackass is a compliment.)


In the order it showed their personality. Gino is obviously an idiot, and Luciano is obviously a crazy son of a bitch. What the hell is Monica and Dorothea?

...Nonette deserved more screen time, but at least she didn't die. That's a relief

Though I agree with Blade. Bismarck in Galahad vs Godhax Lancelot Albion? We see Suzaku is still doing what he is doing best. Mercilessly killing people and justifies it afterwords.

...There is no justifying killing people, it's war dude. It's what you do in it. Doing war to stop war is incredibly retarded.

Biggest disappointment in characters? Villeta and Ohgi. They didn't deserve the screentime given to them. I swear, those two were made to be hated.

aww, but I liked them I mean they were not my favs I still enjoyed them though and they were the only couple that got a good ending. I do wish Monica, Nonnette, and Dorthea had more screentime also I would have liked to have seen more interaction between Milly/Rivalz or Milly/Lelouch instead it went to the characters and/or parings I could care less about *cough*shirley/lelouchandnina/tablesandeuphieobsession*cough*

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

not really
beat up enough people and no one wants to attack you anymore for fear of what you'll do to them

And then you spend the rest of your life fearing if they gang up on you and eventually you try to relax on morning and your best friend betrays you

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

And then you spend the rest of your life fearing if they gang up on you and eventually you try to relax on morning and your best friend betrays you

+1 Roriconfan! Or one of those that got a beating, buys a weapon(bat, hammer, gun) and decides to get a little payback! A .45 in your brainpan WILL ruin your day!

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by yvj

So question what character was a bigger example of character fail/disappointment?

Marianne or Bismark?

The Knights of the Round were the worse characters in R2. Besides Anya(You know the Marianne geass part) and Bismark(Suzaku's goal to take his position of KoO), all of the rest won't that important to the show. I don't think the staff really knew what to do with all those characters. Which is probably why some of them got one scene then died the next against Suzaku. Or having one scene and never showing up again.

It wasn't like the Black Knights had alot of aces besides Kallen, Toudou then Xing-Ke when he joined up and he was sick. Compared to all of those aces in the KoR. They didn't even exist in S1 I believe. I would have kept it like that. Spend some more scenes to the likes of C.C, Charles or even Kallen.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

And then you spend the rest of your life fearing if they gang up on you and eventually you try to relax on morning and your best friend betrays you

not really
make it perfectly clear that your enemies will die, but that your allies are rewarded, and sooner or later people would prefer to be your allies
"offer one hand, but arm the other"

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

not really
make it perfectly clear that your enemies will die, but that your allies are rewarded, and sooner or later people would prefer to be your allies
"offer one hand, but arm the other"

I'm curious about something Blade. What do you do when said allies decide they want more? I.e. Power, weapons, authority, control over their defeated enemy? Or worse they turn and bite the hand that feeds them? Again I'm just being curious that's all!

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

I'm curious about something Blade. What do you do when said allies decide they want more? I.e. Power, weapons, authority, control over their defeated enemy? Or worse they turn and bite the hand that feeds them? Again I'm just being curious that's all!

thats when the "enemies will die" part comes in
as long as your allies remember that they are better off as your allies then as your enemies, then it doesn't matter what they want

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

not really
make it perfectly clear that your enemies will die, but that your allies are rewarded, and sooner or later people would prefer to be your allies
"offer one hand, but arm the other"

It is a double edge knife to kill your enemies. It is really easy for them to become martyrs and simply generate even more enemies.
For example, the Jewish clergy executed Jesus in an attempt to kill his teachings and that created an entire new religion based on that event (if it really happened historically is not the issue here).

And allies must indeed be rewarded but not to a point where they feel you are in permanent dept to them because they become power hungry assholes.
Better ridicule your enemies and make them hateful to your people and always give peanuts to your allies with the excuse that the rest are needed to defend them against the very enemies you don't kill but ridicule.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

It is a double edge knife to kill your enemies. It is really easy for them to become martyrs and simply generate even more enemies.
And allies must indeed be rewarded but not to a point where they feel you are in permanent dept to them because they become power hungry assholes.
Better ridicule your enemies and make them hateful to your people and always give peanuts to your allies with the excuse the rest are needed to defend them against the very enemies you don't kill but ridicule.

humiliation and ridicule provokes shame
which can lead an enemy to try and redeem himself
killing your enemy provokes fear in others

as for allies
allies are a strategic thing
if they aren't useful as allies, or are too much of a bother, then why have them

as for "martyrs"
while some people may view them as martyrs, and others view them as fools
the one thing EVERYONE views them as, is dead

and just as a general rule, pacifism as wrong by default
all that is required for evil to win is for good people to do nothing
just dont get into wars without a good reason, and you shouldn't fuck up too much

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia

aww, but I liked them I mean they were not my favs I still enjoyed them though and they were the only couple that got a good ending. I do wish Monica, Nonnette, and Dorthea had more screentime also I would have liked to have seen more interaction between Milly/Rivalz or Milly/Lelouch instead it went to the characters and/or parings I could care less about *cough*shirley/lelouchandnina/tablesandeuphieobsession*cough*

Villetta and Ohgi were directly responsible for the Black Knights' betrayal against Lelouch, and subsequently, the Zero Requiem.

Villetta herself was a one woman spanner in the works, using Shirley to find out Zero's identity and being responsible for much of her trauma, and watched over Lelouch to see that he hadn't gotten his memories back, and even after spending a little more time with him when he had his memories back, she still later went against him with the "oh noes, he abused the Geass" talk. And neither she nor Ohgi are questioned by the BKs about their secret relationship. Not to mention that Villetta doesn't show any actual moral development through her relationship, which is nothing more than a Get Out Of Jail Free Card for her. That Euphie, Shirley, and ultimately Lelouch, died, but she and Ohgi both got the happiest ending is all kinds of backwards.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

humiliation and ridicule provokes shame
which can lead an enemy to try and redeem himself

If you call your enemy a warmonger and he tries to redeem by attacking you, well, you win. If on the other hand he has the brains to redeem peacefully, well, good for him. You can even say you managed to sway him to the path of peace with your slander.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

killing your enemy provokes fear in others

Fear is always a bad choice. Just look at the bad image religion has because of the Holy Inquisition.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

if they aren't useful as allies, or are too much of a bother, then why have them

Most of the time allies are both useful and a bother at the same time.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

as for "martyrs"
while some people may view them as martyrs, and others view them as fools
the one thing EVERYONE views them as, is dead

Yet their ideals live on forever.

[bladeofdarkness]

don't mistake my point
i'm not saying "go crush kill and destroy for shits and giggles"
all i'm saying is that one should understand the truth of the world

there would ALWAYS be people out there who seek to make themselves strong by oppressing the weak
make sure that those people know damn well that you aren't one of the weak, and that trying to oppress you, would only lead to their demise
that way, they are less likely to attack you if they can help it
you can't change human nature, only use it to your advantage
push come to shove, most people (or nations for that matter) would choose self preservation over ambition nine times out of ten

as for your point about Jesus
he wasn't killed by the Jewish clergy because of his teachings
he was killed by the romans because he was pissing them off, which was rather common during those days
his "religion" was only created years afterwards, had many myths added to it to make it easy to sell to the masses, and bore little resemblance to what he actually preached
you can never really know WHAT martyrdom would lead to

[Revolutionist]

Christianity wasn't the only religion that was perverted, Islam and yes even Judaism are perverted (You'd be surprised how jewish Christianity is, after all, the early Christians were jews who wanted change LOL).

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

don't mistake my point
i'm not saying "go crush kill and destroy for shits and giggles"
all i'm saying is that one should understand the truth of the world

there would ALWAYS be people out there who seek to make themselves strong by oppressing the weak
make sure that those people know damn well that you aren't one of the weak, and that trying to oppress you, would only lead to their demise
that way, they are less likely to attack you if they can help it
you can't change human nature, only use it to your advantage
push come to shove, most people (or nations for that matter) would choose self preservation over ambition nine times out of ten

as for your point about Jesus
he wasn't killed by the Jewish clergy because of his teachings
he was killed by the romans because he was pissing them off, which was rather common during those days
his "religion" was only created years afterwards, had many myths added to it to make it easy to sell to the masses, and bore little resemblance to what he actually preached
you can never really know WHAT martyrdom would lead to

I totally agree with blade of the above statement about oppression andand demise. If people would stand up for themselves constructively and reasonable more and take the vote then the world would be a better place.

I thought it was the jewish people that sent him to execution. Maybe not the jewish clergy but the people sent jesus to the cross. Pontius Pilate doesn't even want to cruxify jesus but the people wanted it.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

I totally agree with blade of the above statement about oppression andand demise. If people would stand up for themselves constructively and reasonable more and take the vote then the world would be a better place.

I thought it was the jewish people that sent him to execution. Maybe not the jewish clergy but the people sent jesus to the cross. Pontius Pilate doesn't even want to cruxify jesus but the people wanted it.

That's right, Pontius washes his hands, literally, of Jesus crucifixion.

[roriconfan]

Man, comparing Lulu to Jesus is weird yet the similarities are more than obvious. Although Lulu had too much revenge and will to blow stuff than the pacifist way Big J wanted. And like Euphie, we all know what happened when trying to be nice to people.

Also, Big J used miracles to make people follow him, while Lulu used brainwash... Almost the same thing, lol.

[bladeofdarkness]

while i sense that this is the wrong place for a religious debate...
Jesus was put to death by the romans
if they didn't have their own reasons for doing so, they wouldn't have done it
if later stories depict them as less then willing to do so, its because the new testament was actually codified much later, IN rome, by romans, and hence, was likely subject to some artistic and creative licence

i agree with Revolutionist that all religions are perverted to some degree
but given what religions ARE (an attempt to put a patent on the divine) thats to be expected

[roriconfan]

If they ever make a sequel to CG, Zero will be the God of a new religion and Lulu will be the Devil. Even if they were the same person.

...just like in real religions, lol.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

while i sense that this is the wrong place for a religious debate...
Jesus was put to death by the romans
if they didn't have their own reasons for doing so, they wouldn't have done it
if later stories depict them as less then willing to do so, its because the new testament was actually codified much later, IN rome, by romans, and hence, was likely subject to some artistic and creative licence

i agree with Revolutionist that all religions are perverted to some degree
but given what religions ARE (an attempt to put a patent on the divine) thats to be expected

The Romans are merely the executioners and the law enforcement. The people are the ones to vote Jesus to be put to death. The king of Rome doesn't even really see a real reason why Jesus needs to be cruxified. First they gave the people a choice to release an extremely dangerous criminal or Jesus so the people choose the criminal to be release. Then the Romans whipped and tortured him giving a thorn crown and the people still believe it it not enough since the people believe Jesus teachings is going against the lord and the old traditions.

Now for Code Geass. I thought it was very symbolic how lelouch died dressed in mainly white having his arms shaped like the cross like he has been cruxified breaking the cycle of hatred (sin) for people can move forward. Of course I cannnot really compare him to Jesus, but that was what Sunrise was trying to go for even though some of us extremely disagree in the methods lelouch used.