Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[justavisitor]

i hate the god ki concept more. The first blunder is mortal can't sense it. Well Jiren doesn't give a crap about that concept for sure. And right now, almost everyone can feel it (now they cannot feel the UI...we will see how long it lasts)

The second blunder is that you have to keep the ki inside...well dragonball has been using the amount of ki's aura to determine a fighter's strength for years....so good luck with that....Vegeta's deep blue's enormous aura is just an insult to that idea XD

[The Green One]

Being blue not good enough? Solve the problem by becoming even more intensely blue!

[Ka-el]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

i hate the god ki concept more. The first blunder is mortal can't sense it. Well Jiren doesn't give a crap about that concept for sure. And right now, almost everyone can feel it (now they cannot feel the UI...we will see how long it lasts)

The second blunder is that you have to keep the ki inside...well dragonball has been using the amount of ki's aura to determine a fighter's strength for years....so good luck with that....Vegeta's deep blue's enormous aura is just an insult to that idea XD

The funnier part is that now in the manga is stated that until you don't become white-haired, you're still in your base form and you just have insticts ultra developped, so how the hell Goku managed to dodge and damage his opponents in the tournament while he was in base if base form is infinitely weaker even than Super Saiyan 1? Doesn't matter the reflexes, if you are infinitely weaker and slower of your opponents, your reflexes are useless because your body can't keep up with them. And then there is this transformation which is still not explained at all and its presence even made pointless the part about the "instincts" as in that form Goku is far way stronger, faster and have an aura greater (as his ki blast were stronger and their power is determined by the amount of aura) than any of his opponents (including Jiren who shitted on his SSB form like it was nothing) so if you're already way faster and stronger than your opponent, you don't need ultra instinct at all, just the aura perception would be more than enough to anticipate your enemy (like Vegeth used to do with Buuhan, he humiliated him because he was way stronger and used the common ki perception to anticipate his attacks).

And Vegeta deep blue form is the stupidest ever in fact in both manga and anime didn't even try to explain it all, how he obtained it, why it was so powerful, etc...

The concept of UI would have been perfect in the first series, when martial arts still mattered, not now. And btw I think it was far better the first series about prediction, as Goku was able to anticipate any attack and how he would have been attacked without looking at his enemy, just by perceiving the air vibration caused by the movements of the opponents. I mean, it's better to have any single part of your body move on his own the moment you are attacked or knowing how you will be attacked even before you're about to be hit and react properly using your freaking brain and counter even before that moment?
However it was too OP for DBZ so Toriyama nerfed that ability into perceiving the Ki, simplyfing the concept.

[justavisitor]

I think it was in one panel they say the muscle can be hardened if needed under UI...so while you are in base form, the muscle can be adjusted for greater strength if needed under UI...I know, it's farfetched, but I guess that is what we have for now.

[Tong]

Dont worry, Kaioken will become relevant again after Goku reaches "Saiyan beyond Instinct".

[SidVicious]

Looks like Toei's Dragon Ball website leaked the announcement of a new movie.

[Kanon]

The drafts for the next chapter are out.

Spoiler:

Goku and Vegeta arrive on Cereal on the very first page of the chapter, so we're not wasting time. They quickly realize something is wrong because the ruins of Granolah's city look old and they can see brand new peaceful cities, but they're given no time to think as Granloah immediately tries to snipe them from afar without any warning.

[Galaxian]

Well, there we go. Ultra Instinct + Super Saiyan incoming...

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Well, there we go. Ultra Instinct + Super Saiyan incoming...

If this chapter is any indication, it's that Ultra instinct + up until super saiyan god has already become useless All you need is a sharingan to see through the chakara...I mean, blood vein inside the body to counter UI (of course, you have to be quick also)

And in order to make the readers aware that Goku is using UI in different forms, majority of the times he now has to close the eyes in order to tap into UI, and he did not need to do that before (including last arc)...oh well

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Well, there we go. Ultra Instinct + Super Saiyan incoming...

It was always a question of when it was going to happen, not if.

[Galaxian]

Let's start taking bets on what hair color Mastered UI Super Saiyan is going to be.

[Kanon]

Why is Goku using the incomplete Blue form that completely drains your ki in like 15 minutes at the end of the chapter? Did Toyotaro forget MSSB has no aura or is Goku retarded? It's not SSBE either, its aura doesn't look like that.

Also, Granolah is "faster than instant teleportation?" That's, like, not possible.

So far the result of Goku's training is less than impressive to say the least. He trained to use a technique that allows him to auto-dodge in his base state so he's never caught off guard again and he gets hit almost right away.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Why is Goku using the incomplete Blue form that completely drains your ki in like 15 minutes at the end of the chapter? Did Toyotaro forget MSSB has no aura or is Goku retarded? It's not SSBE either, its aura doesn't look like that.

The same as it always been: any utility is thrown out the window in this franchise and power is simplified to be on a linear hierarchy.

Just like why Goku used regular SSJ and the red SSG, using a lower level form is his way of holding back.

[GDB]

I like that Vegeta is noticing irregularities and investigating, even if ultimately it won't mean anything because Super is just the Goku show.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

The same as it always been: any utility is thrown out the window in this franchise and power is simplified to be on a linear hierarchy.

Just like why Goku used regular SSJ and the red SSG, using a lower level form is his way of holding back.

It'd be fine if this form didn't have a massive drawback. He should have gone MSSB after SSG, which is what he's been doing since he mastered it.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It'd be fine if this form didn't have a massive drawback. He should have gone MSSB after SSG, which is what he's been doing since he mastered it.

I am skeptical on many things in DBS. But to Goku's defense, once you master something, it's very hard to un-master it. Probably not how DBS works and maybe you are right, but imo just because there is an aura, it doesn't automatically mean that Goku is going to be drained in 15 minutes.

It's like in the Buu's saga, whenever Goku turns his SSJ1 on, it should be already in the mastered state.

And I would argue that Goku was not a holding back person in DBZ, at least after the freeza saga he was not holding back at all...but I will stop as it contributes nothing to the DBS

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Just like why Goku used regular SSJ and the red SSG, using a lower level form is his way of holding back.

And dont forget his base form is supposed to be as strong as SSG

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

And I would argue that Goku was not a holding back person in DBZ, at least after the freeza saga he was not holding back at all...but I will stop as it contributes nothing to the DBS

The entire Buu Saga is predicated upon Goku holding back from using SSJ3. He even says he should have killed Fat Buu when he had the chance, but he wanted Gotenks to have a chance at it.

In Resurrection of F, Goku fought with Frieza in multiple forms instead of going SSB from the beginning.

The same also applies to Broly. He started off in his normal form then ramped up as the fight went on.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Why is Goku using the incomplete Blue form that completely drains your ki in like 15 minutes at the end of the chapter? Did Toyotaro forget MSSB has no aura or is Goku retarded? It's not SSBE either, its aura doesn't look like that.

Also, Granolah is "faster than instant teleportation?" That's, like, not possible.

So far the result of Goku's training is less than impressive to say the least. He trained to use a technique that allows him to auto-dodge in his base state so he's never caught off guard again and he gets hit almost right away.

He isn’t faster, the correct translated is Granolah actually perform an instant transmission.

Originally Posted by justavisitor

If this chapter is any indication, it's that Ultra instinct + up until super saiyan god has already become useless All you need is a sharingan to see through the chakara...I mean, blood vein inside the body to counter UI (of course, you have to be quick also)

And in order to make the readers aware that Goku is using UI in different forms, majority of the times he now has to close the eyes in order to tap into UI, and he did not need to do that before (including last arc)...oh well

I think u mean the bayakugan and not the sharingan.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by azenable

He isn’t faster, the correct translated is Granolah actually perform an instant transmission.

I assumed the intent was to say he didn't use Instant Transmission (light speed travel), but rather the thing Supreme Kai/Kibito use that's just literal teleportation with no time delay at all.