(L+CR) Goblin Slayer

[Top Sergeant]

I've been interested to see how they would portray Witch's speech pattern. I think they did a good job, and the slightly sultry tone fits.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I know that feel. My guild made fun of my Lord Knight because she spent most of her life in Sphynx floor -3 for the Minorous.

That...was exactly what I am doing with my Lv99 Battle Priest.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Additionally, having to establish a world requires a lot of time. You have to explain literally everything, but at the same time you can't afford to throw around exposition every two minutes - you'd either end up with an Exposition character or have to use a narrator. And then remember to get back to the actual story that's supposed to be taking place in that world. So, in that aspect, Goblin Slayer does a good job of not sweating the details and unraveling a character-driven story with minimum effort. Is it lazy? You could see it that way, but I think it just depends on your perspective.

Please note that some fantasy anime have no problem balancing the act of world-building and advancing the main plot. LOGH can do that just fine, Escaflowne can do that just fine, Heroic Age can do that just fine, Nausicaa can do that just fine, Future Boy Conan can do it just fine, the first Macross & various AU Gundam shows can do it just fine, even some goddamn Doraemon adventure movies can do it just fine within the time-frame they had. It can be done, and it can be done well.

So yeah, if GS is too reliant on the audiences’ familiarity with D&D for the story to be completely work then I’d still say that it's lazy. It wouldn’t be lazy if GS was meant to be a parody or a tongue-in-cheek take on D&D, but since the show seem to be super serious about its story, that flaw stood out even more. Then again, with all the unnecessary fanservice I've seen here, this show might not be so serious after all. I don't know, man. It's kinda all over the place with this show. On one side, you have a grim depiction or rape, but on the other side, the show flaunts all kinds of boobs, asses and thighs at you for T&A. I think it's in poor taste, unless the showrunner is aiming for that exploitation cinema-feel.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I merely suggest your standards on absurdity are inconsistent. And that complaining about RPG tropes here is rather like watching porn and complaining that pizza deliveries don't work that way.

It’s pretty easy to understand actually. My “standards on absurdity” depends on how seriously a show take itself, or how self-aware a show is. Like, you won’t see me complaining about all the weird shit in One Piece (OP) because that show is running on weirdness and that has become part of the plot and brand. But I can complain about the power-levels, the recycled stories from arc to arc and how they use or waste some characters. It's simple like that.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

If she is so inexperienced how do you think she got her skills and rank, by slaying squirrels? If she became adventurer to find more about world, she is out of Forrest at least several years and fought evil, wizards, bandits, giants and who knows what else. Her curiosity isn't because she knows too little, but because no matter how far you go and how many things you discover, you can still bet that behind next corner you still can find something new.

If nothing else it's safe assume HEA knows much more about world than Orcbolg

well... probably Elf's town is little bit different with human's town
just like how lizardman didn't know anything about cheese

about Dwarf, I think it is quite clear that he is a spellcaster... he knows a lot about scrolls.. and he didn't bring an axe or something else.. just a gourd with fire wine
same with the lizardman.. no melee weapon

[Kuroageha]

If you saw her bow skills + her race being Elf then it wouldn't be far from calling it race privileges during evaluations.

[Skaddix]

Typical Elven Archery Hax..

People still play Ragnarok Online? The more you know.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Keila

We don't really have any elf backstory yet and know nothing about her character (aside from her wanting to know about the world beyond the forest). The Elf being 2,000 years old but seemingly not acting that way (or at least what we'd expect under the assumption that with age comes wisdom) is perfectly reasonable if you consider what the Dwarf said (effectively a baby who just left the forest because she was bored). I mean, we wouldn't expect a +100 year old human to be teasing/fighting with a baby, yet Dwarf does it like it's only natural.

We don't really know that much about the Lizardman and yet he seems much more mature than the Elf/Dwarf at any rate.


Priestess is technically an adult and yet we saw first hand her naïvety (per episode one) and how she's matured since then, which is fundamentally something that only happened because she 'experienced things'. If Elf was an isolationist (which seems to be the case) then her experience and accumulated knowledge would be rather low, despite the 2,000 years. Could you imagine people being hikikomori if things like books, tv's and the internet didn't exist?

I've seen older/elderly people live their entire lives some pretty parochial places in our world but they've never come across as childish to me. But I do agree that it's worth pointing out that the Dwarf was being just as immature as the Elf. The Dude-est of Lizards seemed to be the only mature one out of that trio.

But really I think this just falls back to the fact that this is a Japanese creation and in Japan-land everything from Tsunderes to Red Blood Cells gets turned into waifu-material. No exceptions.

So with traditional Tolkein-esque elves, the maturity of a 2k year old elf would be apparent in the way she carries herself, speaks, behaves, grace etc. But in Japan-land that's just not "kawai" enough, so they had to make elves with practically eternal periods of adolescence.

Because what's better than an eternally high-school aged waifu?

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[Anh_Minh]

I remember reading somewhere that "maturity" was also a matter of brain chemistry, which changed with age. It would make a certain amount of sense that, regardless of what she's seen in the 2000 years or on her way to silver rank, she maintains her child-like mentality because she is, physiologically speaking, still child-like. Or maybe that's just her character. Like the Dwarf, who doesn't have that excuse.

[Kafriel]

So yeah, if GS is too reliant on the audiences’ familiarity with D&D for the story to be completely work then I’d still say that it's lazy. It wouldn’t be lazy if GS was meant to be a parody or a tongue-in-cheek take on D&D, but since the show seem to be super serious about its story, that flaw stood out even more. Then again, with all the unnecessary fanservice I've seen here, this show might not be so serious after all. I don't know, man. It's kinda all over the place with this show. On one side, you have a grim depiction or rape, but on the other side, the show flaunts all kinds of boobs, asses and thighs at you for T&A. I think it's in poor taste, unless the showrunner is aiming for that exploitation cinema-feel.

I don't think the story takes itself so seriously, even without all the fanservice. It's mostly focused on the characters and their interactions, rather than some sort of massive plot with twists and important events. As for the fanservice, I think we need to find another name for it, because it's really doing this series a disservice by spoiling the mood. I don't generally mind it, even in its most exaggerated forms (see Fairy Tail), but it's way too out of place in this show.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Please note that some fantasy anime have no problem balancing the act of world-building and advancing the main plot. LOGH can do that just fine, Escaflowne can do that just fine, Heroic Age can do that just fine, Nausicaa can do that just fine, Future Boy Conan can do it just fine, the first Macross & various AU Gundam shows can do it just fine, even some goddamn Doraemon adventure movies can do it just fine within the time-frame they had. It can be done, and it can be done well.

So yeah, if GS is too reliant on the audiences’ familiarity with D&D for the story to be completely work then I’d still say that it's lazy. It wouldn’t be lazy if GS was meant to be a parody or a tongue-in-cheek take on D&D, but since the show seem to be super serious about its story, that flaw stood out even more. Then again, with all the unnecessary fanservice I've seen here, this show might not be so serious after all. I don't know, man. It's kinda all over the place with this show. On one side, you have a grim depiction or rape, but on the other side, the show flaunts all kinds of boobs, asses and thighs at you for T&A. I think it's in poor taste, unless the showrunner is aiming for that exploitation cinema-feel.

It’s pretty easy to understand actually. My “standards on absurdity” depends on how seriously a show take itself, or how self-aware a show is. Like, you won’t see me complaining about all the weird shit in One Piece (OP) because that show is running on weirdness and that has become part of the plot and brand. But I can complain about the power-levels, the recycled stories from arc to arc and how they use or waste some characters. It's simple like that.

Your argument is almost a slap in the face of noir and pup fiction (including the movie of the same name) for the past... oooh 30 years..

I don't even know where to start, it looks like you just conveniently forget a certain genre that has existed for a very long time.

Infact you can say besides the D&D and anime tint, it's a tried and true classic directing of a pup fiction, or noir type screenplay.

If you go back farther or attended a film class, you would be able to easily identify it as a type of dark comedy, which uses dark satire to touch on otherwise serious or vulgar topics, including balant and contrast of light and dark, stoic and sexual, etc, etc.

GS is not something strange, it's in every aspect generic in it's approach. But most stuff are, and the good ones make the viewer able to go along and enjoy the ride, while others don't. Kill Bill being a resent example.

[Haak]

^ By pulp fiction do you mean stuff like Killing Bites and Highschool of the Dead?

[scififan]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

about Dwarf, I think it is quite clear that he is a spellcaster... he knows a lot about scrolls.. and he didn't bring an axe or something else.. just a gourd with fire wine
same with the lizardman.. no melee weapon

The dwarf and the lizardman uses melee weapons most of the time. They made their ways to silver rank by sweats and tears, aka close range combat. It's as they don't only use RPG and C4 for all situation.

The priestess is the specialist of miracles(奇跡). She can uses 3 times a day.
The dwarf is the specialist of incantation(呪文). He can uses it 4-5 times a day.
The lizardman is the specialist of miracles(奇跡). He can uses it 4 times a day.
Miacles and incantation have similarities and differences.

[moridin84]

High Elf Archer might be 2000 years old but that is considered young for high elves. Since she is young for an high elf, it is not weird for her to act young.

It is always a bit weird with elves. They might be hundreds of years old but humans can somehow be wiser or smart or more experienced.

[Tenzen12]

Humans rarely are wiser then elfs as far as I can tell. Elves usualy are wise but unflexible, where humans always inpatiently rushing forward to reach great heights as well as experience great falls.

[Keila]

The question with different racial life-spans and perceived maturity should generally just be one of 'scale'. If you did a ratio (baby, child,teen, adult, mid-life-crisis, elder) and scaled it based on life-span would the comparisons be the same or different?


I wouldn't really expect something like a 'goblin' to take all that long to reach maturity and they don't generally seem to have any issues participating in 'adult activities' as soon as they are able. I don't know how long it takes for a goblin to mature, but if they're 'fully grown' after a few months would you consider them still children? (or like Misaka Worst from Index, despite how she looks she still should inevitably be considered a baby using a conventional frame of reference).


That being said, it would utterly suck to have nearly 2,000 years as an 'adult' (using real-life humans as a reference point, assume that 'youthfulness' is not really an issue). Even if you had near eternal youth, if you still got loaded with all the 'adult responsibilities' (how you're expected to behave, contribute to society via working, etc) would it be worth it?. Could you imagine the mindset of someone stuck as a 'salaryman' for 2,000 years?

Let's say a human lives to ~ 100 in the real world

+ let's say 1st 20 years or so are spent on education (not working)
+ you retire around 70
+ 70 to 100 (and death) is spent 'in retirement'.

That's still about 50 years where you'd be expected to 'contribute' to society (ideally working), potentially under circumstances that are not all that appealing.

[Jan-Poo]

There might be some aspect of maturity that are tied to biology, especially sexual behaviors, but as long as the rate races learn stuff is the same, things like knowledge and experience should depend linearly on the time they have lived regardless of their lifespan.

Basically if for elves it took a 1000 years to learn what a human can learn in 10, they would be essentially retards.

I guess we could argue about whether wisdom depends on experience or on biological factors, but most people would say it depends on the former. So a 100 year old elf child should be as wise as 100 year old human geezer.

Which at the same time it means that for elven standards all humans act like kids...

that actually makes a lot of sense all considered...

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kukuru

Your argument is almost a slap in the face of noir and pup fiction (including the movie of the same name) for the past... oooh 30 years..

I don't even know where to start, it looks like you just conveniently forget a certain genre that has existed for a very long time.

Infact you can say besides the D&D and anime tint, it's a tried and true classic directing of a pup fiction, or noir type screenplay.

If you go back farther or attended a film class, you would be able to easily identify it as a type of dark comedy, which uses dark satire to touch on otherwise serious or vulgar topics, including balant and contrast of light and dark, stoic and sexual, etc, etc.

Wow, you’re actually comparing Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction with Goblin Slayer? Ugh, I don’t know how to react to that aside from advising you to watch the movie again. The contrast between the rape (if you’ve watched the movie, you should know which one I’m talking about) and all the sensual aspects in that movie can’t really be compared to GS except for the fact that they existed together.

Also, no, I did not forget certain genre of movies. I already brought up “exploitation films/cinema” in my last post. Those are genre of movies that basically tend to serve audience with very basic forms of entertainment which is sex and violence. If necessary, those kinds of movies will put both fanservice and sexual abuse scenes together to please (and arouse) the audience. Movies like Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS is a good example of it along with many other “women in prison”-movies and other forms of exploitation cinema.

Originally Posted by kukuru

GS is not something strange, it's in every aspect generic in it's approach. But most stuff are, and the good ones make the viewer able to go along and enjoy the ride, while others don't. Kill Bill being a resent example.

Yes, GS is pretty generic (so far) which is part of my argument in the last few pages (against those who claimed GS as something really special). Especially the fanservice in GS. That is such a generic ecchi anime thing to do.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That is true, however a lot of recent Japanese works set in fantasy worlds (mainly LN) seem to have started to abandon the DQ canon in favor of the western D&D-based one.

Konosuba actually makes fun of this.

Spoiler for Konosuba sketch:

When Kazuma learns that his enemy is a slime, he confidently challenges him to battle, because he believes slimes to be the weakest kind of monster one could face. This is a famous Dragon Quest trope. But then it's revealed that in that world slimes are actually extremely troublesome monsters, which is how they've always been in the many D&D iterations.

Rust monsters and Shadows gonna be so fun in japanese fantasy. Oh and those little shits like Trappers and Ceiling Monsters.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There might be some aspect of maturity that are tied to biology, especially sexual behaviors, but as long as the rate races learn stuff is the same, things like knowledge and experience should depend linearly on the time they have lived regardless of their lifespan.

Basically if for elves it took a 1000 years to learn what a human can learn in 10, they would be essentially retards.

I guess we could argue about whether wisdom depends on experience or on biological factors, but most people would say it depends on the former. So a 100 year old elf child should be as wise as 100 year old human geezer.

Which at the same time it means that for elven standards all humans act like kids...

that actually makes a lot of sense all considered...

If 'schools/education' didn't exist then how 'knowledgeable' would people actually be? Humans (real-world) throughout history have accumulated knowledge (written, oral, other) and passed this down to the next generation but at some stage this highly advanced (and condensed) form of 'learning' as taken place.

You see examples from time to time of people who haven't been exposed to a (modern-ish) education system for one reason or another and though they may physically be the same as anyone else their 'age' their accumulated knowledge and understanding of the world is comparatively stunted.

Education (human history, real world) used to be something only partaken by the privileged in society and yet now it is (mostly) available to the masses in the developed world. That obviously skews perceptions of human capability. The basic stuff like math and science that we learn and take for granted is fundamentally knowledge that has accumulated and been refined over 10s, 100s, potentially 1000s of years in some shape or form.


Young children (real-world) before certain ages apparently cannot completely grasp the concept of 'death' in the same way that adults do and for various reasons you wouldn't want to expose them to things like sex (apparently it causes trauma). If the 'elves' also have some level of sheltering (preventing the young from experiencing certain things) then their experiences are limited.



If you took a human children (real world, and this would never pass an ethics committee in this day and age) and you essentially isolated them inside a 'bubble' environment, completing self-sustaining, possibly some robotic helpers (lets say Martian colony) but otherwise just 'observed' them like animals in a zoo with no interference they'd probably end up seeming extremely primitive regardless of how much time passes.

[Haak]

I don't think knowledge and experience is the same as maturity. For example, I'm sure Cow Girls father doesn't have the knowledge and experience that the Elf does but even he came across as more mature in the brief moments we saw of him. I'm sure there's some relation though, so maybe a bubble environment could slow down the rate of "maturity growth" for Elves compared to Adventurers but slowing down something so much that 2000 years is less than 50 years would have to take one HELL of a bubble environment.

The example you described at the end is an extreme form of isolation. Provided that the child didn't break down mentally from such an experience and lived in such extreme isolation for 2000 years, you'd probably get High Elf Archer. That's probably what it would take. Not just standard parochialism but actual isolation.

For the record though, I think a fair amount of Values Dissonance may be at play here too. I often see anime in general protray thousand years old yokai as fairly immature as well. It's possible that the Japanese would simply apply Yokai standards to Elves because that's the closest match they have.