Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I finally got my Gundam 00 Episode 20 blog article up if people still care.

And I hope they do as it took me an exceptionally long time to get done. You know, this episode had such excellent character subplots going on that I kind of wish the battle at the end of the episode could have been postponed to give one or two of them some extra time. Still a stellar addition to this increasingly discussable and debatable series though.

We do care, it's just that we write it on this board since you advertise it here.

[NeonZ]

Originally Posted by 06294086

Before Eiffman died, he clearly mentioned that CB's goal is definitely not erradication of wars and the faction which is the closest to the CB (Aeolia) ideal's is the Trinitys +Liu Mei + Lagna. They will treat civilian's casualty as NOTHING as long as they reach their(Aeolia's) goal which is once again, not erradication of war ; completely different with the Meisters.

The Trinities think that their ultimate objective is the end of war, so they definitely aren't the closest to Aeolia's ideals.

Alejandro clearly is self interested, considering his search for Veda, so he is out too.

The only ones who might actually know (and follow) Aeolia's true objectives currently are the original Meisters and Liu Mei. Considering how their approach seems to be very different, one of them probably isn't following Aeolia's true path. We know that Liu Mei's main objective isn't just the end of war, so she has higher chances of being closer to Aeolia's intention than the Meisters too.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

*cue guitar riffs*
"Coreh gah Veyda, Eolia Shoehenberg....Yah, Celestal Beeing konkwa oh na sheeshtem!"
*weird guy evil smile*

See, does Alejandro implies that veda is a copy of Aeolia's memory, or basically a copy of Aeolia in machine form?

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by jafri

I hope That Setsuna FACE 2 FACE with ALI again and he Will Avenge for Kinue Crossroad's Death!! ALi Al-Sarchez Is Going to pay what he's done!!

It's hard to seek revenge for someone you just barely known because you met him/her two or three times... Not to mention Setsuna doesn't even know what happened to Louise and Kinue.

Originally Posted by Terra

It isn't just a case of sticking a GN Drive into a falg. It's a case of redesigning the entire Flag to not only house a GN Drive, but to use it's power. The Flag runs on a completely different power source. You can't just swap one for the other when it isn't designed for the other. Plus the design of the Flag isn't really right for a GN Drive to be fitted. It'd be a completely new suit.

So this makes all Graham's talk about being a man by defeating a Gundam in Flag a pile of crap...

Originally Posted by Sides

See, does Alejandro implies that veda is a copy of Aeolia's memory, or basically a copy of Aeolia in machine form?

Aeolia is still alive somehow because it would be quite retarded, on his part, to have a purpose he won't be able to see because of aging issues.

[Chase]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I finally got my Gundam 00 Episode 20 blog article up if people still care.

And I hope they do as it took me an exceptionally long time to get done. You know, this episode had such excellent character subplots going on that I kind of wish the battle at the end of the episode could have been postponed to give one or two of them some extra time. Still a stellar addition to this increasingly discussable and debatable series though.

lol nice article

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

We do care, it's just that we write it on this board since you advertise it here.

I just meant that it was so late into the run that most people had probably already seen it.

[Terra]

It's always nice to hear someone else's point of view of an ep since it can make you think of thigns you didn't think of before.

[dahak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Why would losing a couple be of any great disadvantage? The only group the HRL is in active combat with is Celestial Being, and GN-Xs aren't a strategic weapon.

And after Celestial being are defeated? Which ever faction has the last GN-X operational has an unstoppable super robot.

One capable of devastation on a intermediate to strategic scale. As Celestial being have already shown.

Better to be cautious and hope that the AEU or Union get hit by Celestial Beings next little suprise. Rather than flying into Virtue or Dynamis's field of fire and getting some of his new suits blownto MCsquared.

For example there are nine or ten ranks of angels and we've seen Gundams named after 3 of them.

Throne, Virtue, Dominion[Kyrios]

Dynamis appears to be named after the Angels of Might [Thrones and Dominions collectively] and Exia after the Angels of Authority [Principalities and Powers]

That leaves Angels/Malakim, Archangels, Seraphim, Cherubim, Ofanim, Powers and Principalities from the classic list and Aeons, Hosts, Chayot, Elohim, Ishim and Hasmallim from other sources.

If I were going to name 7 Gundam designs after ranks of Angels I'd use St Jerome's list rather than Throne 1-3 for 3 of them.

So I'm expecting more Gundams. sergei who probably doesn't know what they are called is expecting CB to pull another surprise the same way they did the last two times they were at a disadvantage.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by dahak

And after Celestial being are defeated? Which ever faction has the last GN-X operational has an unstoppable super robot.

One capable of devastation on a intermediate to strategic scale. As Celestial being have already shown.

It doesn't work that way at all. They are far from unstoppable and obviously lacking the level of customization the CB gundams have and have a limited operation time. But that all is irrelevant. CB have been getting away with what they do not because they are invincible - they are very far from it. They have been getting away with it because they are almost invisible to the enemy. They have no country to defend, no land to fight over, no people to safeguard. All is known about the CB is that they use a spaceship for their operations base, which is floating somewhere in Earth's orbit. The 3 powers were already stronger than the CB ... but that power counts for nothing when you have no target to attack.

If some of the superpowers would start a war between themselves, there would be more locations to attack and defend than you can shake a stick at, and these few GN-X would not matter much on the large scale of things.

[Terra]

It's not so much what they'd do with the GN-X's. It's more what they'd do with the GN tech that could have the serious consequences. Now I know that it'd take a long time for that to become an issue. But it's something you don't want happening that results in a massive war. Greed, power and ambition is a bad combination with the right equipment which the 3 powers were given freely.

[Pride]

Originally Posted by dahak

And after Celestial being are defeated? Which ever faction has the last GN-X operational has an unstoppable super robot.

One capable of devastation on a intermediate to strategic scale. As Celestial being have already shown.

Better to be cautious and hope that the AEU or Union get hit by Celestial Beings next little suprise. Rather than flying into Virtue or Dynamis's field of fire and getting some of his new suits blownto MCsquared.

For example there are nine or ten ranks of angels and we've seen Gundams named after 3 of them.

Throne, Virtue, Dominion[Kyrios]

Dynamis appears to be named after the Angels of Might [Thrones and Dominions collectively] and Exia after the Angels of Authority [Principalities and Powers]

That leaves Angels/Malakim, Archangels, Seraphim, Cherubim, Ofanim, Powers and Principalities from the classic list and Aeons, Hosts, Chayot, Elohim, Ishim and Hasmallim from other sources.

If I were going to name 7 Gundam designs after ranks of Angels I'd use St Jerome's list rather than Throne 1-3 for 3 of them.

So I'm expecting more Gundams. sergei who probably doesn't know what they are called is expecting CB to pull another surprise the same way they did the last two times they were at a disadvantage.

They can always use Greek or Latin versions of the angelic ranks to name the Gundams. Or even Islamic anglelic names, like Azrael, if Saachez actually gets his hands on a Gundam.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Terra

It's not so much what they'd do with the GN-X's. It's more what they'd do with the GN tech that could have the serious consequences. Now I know that it'd take a long time for that to become an issue. But it's something you don't want happening that results in a massive war. Greed, power and ambition is a bad combination with the right equipment which the 3 powers were given freely.

Whatever tech they get is irrelevant because in the end its the Solar Towers that matter, not the GN. A solar tower is worth more than a million GN Drivers and none of the superpowers are willing to risk open war with each other.

The GN opens up new technology tree but as we see the Solar Tower matters the most because even CB has to rely on the towers to transport their gundams into outer space.

Since all 3 got the same tech nothing has changed between the 3 of them.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by dahak

One capable of devastation on a intermediate to strategic scale. As Celestial being have already shown.

To add to Skyfall's remarks, the Gundams have shown no strategic (or even operational) capability whatsoever. Their greatest feat of arms so far was to simply attack a base and leave before a proper counterattack could be mounted. If the power blocs knew where Celestial Being was based, they could fairly easily assemble enormous numbers and crush them.

Originally Posted by dahak

For example there are nine or ten ranks of angels and we've seen Gundams named after 3 of them.

Throne, Virtue, Dominion[Kyrios]

Heh. The obvious names are Malak, Preta, Grigori, Deva, Seraph and Archangel.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Whatever tech they get is irrelevant because in the end its the Solar Towers that matter, not the GN. A solar tower is worth more than a million GN Drivers and none of the superpowers are willing to risk open war with each other.

The GN opens up new technology tree but as we see the Solar Tower matters the most because even CB has to rely on the towers to transport their gundams into outer space.

I wouldn't read too much into the transport bit. It has the advantage of being much more efficient energy-wise compared to chemical rockets (although I wonder why the Gundams can't get into orbit on their own), and if the people providing security for the elevators were asleep on the job, it also reduces the chance of detection.

The way I see it, there are three competing technologies for the role of main energy supplier: the Solar Ring, GN-type fusion, and fission. Until we know more about the status of energy requirement vs. supply, why fission seems to have been abandoned, and the capabilities/limitations of the GN drives, it's a bit early to speculate which would be most advantageous.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I wouldn't read too much into the transport bit. It has the advantage of being much more efficient energy-wise compared to chemical rockets (although I wonder why the Gundams can't get into orbit on their own), and if the people providing security for the elevators were asleep on the job, it also reduces the chance of detection.

The way I see it, there are three competing technologies for the role of main energy supplier: the Solar Ring, GN-type fusion, and fission. Until we know more about the status of energy requirement vs. supply, why fission seems to have been abandoned, and the capabilities/limitations of the GN drives, it's a bit early to speculate which would be most advantageous.

Well so far though the solar towers are the 3 blocs frontier into space. The AEU lags behind because they haven't finished their tower yet. They lose the towers they lose their frontier which is obviously going to be a major setback in colony development.

It maybe possible to use GN drives to propel into space but you would need a strong drive to do it, especially with heavy materials and the only place you can build true GN drivers are in Jupiter.

[Morgun]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

(although I wonder why the Gundams can't get into orbit on their own)

Can the Gundams even reach 11.2 km/s? I don't remember seeing them ever move that fast so far, discounting their teleporting ability when the plot calls for them to be somewhere.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Morgun

Can the Gundams even reach 11.2 km/s? I don't remember seeing them ever move that fast so far, discounting their teleporting ability when the plot calls for them to be somewhere.

Don't think they can: the Avalanche Exia profile mentions that most aerial Union and AEU MS, and some spacecraft have the ability to outrun the Gundams in straight flight, precisely why the Avalanche pack was developed.

Suggests to me at least that the Gundam's can't go that fast, and probably don't have enough power to get to space unassisted.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Well so far though the solar towers are the 3 blocs frontier into space. The AEU lags behind because they haven't finished their tower yet. They lose the towers they lose their frontier which is obviously going to be a major setback in colony development.

It maybe possible to use GN drives to propel into space but you would need a strong drive to do it, especially with heavy materials and the only place you can build true GN drivers are in Jupiter.

So far, the Solar Ring has been presented as the only possible solution to the energy situation, and from what we know, it should be able to provide for all of the power blocs' needs. However, this has never been examined to any detail, so there isn't anything definitive to say about it. And if they deemed it necessary to actually go to Jupiter to build true GN drives, they would certainly do so.

As for the elevators, I believe that it was stated from just about the very beginning that their purpose was for transportation - whether it'd be material up and down from space, or energy from the Solar Ring.

Originally Posted by Morgun

Can the Gundams even reach 11.2 km/s? I don't remember seeing them ever move that fast so far, discounting their teleporting ability when the plot calls for them to be somewhere.

Any vehicle that can accelerate at a sustained rate of greater than 1g can technically reach escape velocity. The exception would be vehicles which require air from the outside to operate (like jets); otherwise the only limitation is running out of propellant. The Gundams seem to be able to accelerate at at least 2 g, so their actual top speed isn't really relevant.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Don't think they can: the Avalanche Exia profile mentions that most aerial Union and AEU MS, and some spacecraft have the ability to outrun the Gundams in straight flight, precisely why the Avalanche pack was developed.

In atmosphere, it shouldn't be much of a surprise since the Gundams are about as aerodynamic as your average rock, and in space, a dedicated vehicle can have a higher thrust-to-mass ratio. What's unique about the Gundams is that they supposedly have no endurance limitation save for propellant since their GN drives provide a bottomless amount of energy.

[Demongod86]

About Graham refusing a gundam...

Build him a Wing Zero and call it a super-flag , because that's more or less what it is!

Sergei and Soma are ownage with their GN-Xs. Let's hope they survive to season 2. Wild motherfucking bear of Russia indeed.

Kinue got what was coming. She dug too deep and got whacked. Oh noes.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

About Graham refusing a gundam...

Build him a Wing Zero and call it a super-flag , because that's more or less what it is!

Sergei and Soma are ownage with their GN-Xs. Let's hope they survive to season 2. Wild motherfucking bear of Russia indeed.

Kinue got what was coming. She dug too deep and got whacked. Oh noes.

What, you not see the Talgeese Flag? Or the Talgeese 3 flag?



Go to the random image thread and FIND THEM!
(I'm just too lazy to dig up the links I have to them.)

[dahak]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

To add to Skyfall's remarks, the Gundams have shown no strategic (or even operational) capability whatsoever. Their greatest feat of arms so far was to simply attack a base and leave before a proper counterattack could be mounted. If the power blocs knew where Celestial Being was based, they could fairly easily assemble enormous numbers and crush them.

Have you been watching the same show? The power blocs haven't managed to crush CB interventions even when they knew where and when they were going to be.

Moralia and the PMC come to mind. The best that mass force has done is pinning down gundams by using 200 to 1 odds. And that failed because there were 3 more units than they knew about [and another thirty in antartica]. The various factions seemed to consider that an all out action. From the evidence the forces involved there wouldn't be sufficient to pin down 10 GN-X's.

If i'm right about that a GN-X squadron is a strategic weapon. For the simple reason it can defeat in short order the entire conventional [that is non GN equiped] MS forces available to one of the alliances. Leaving their alliance's MS's with no opposition.

Not all strategic weapons are WMDs.

And it's not like the HRL doesn't have a reason to want to make pointed military statements to the AEU. After all what is a Terrorist attack on your orbital elevator between friends.