Code Geass Favourite Characters Poll

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

I wonder when this happened. Was it when Cordelia got first introduced? And Lelouch had no followers and tried to repeat that miracle that he made happen in the second episode? With all do respect, she ain't such a tactical mastermind. She's advanced but not on the lvl of a Lelouch or Schneizel. The only reason Cordelia won was cause over her advanced knightmares and cause the troops didn't follow Lelouches commands either.

And because Cornelia figured out Lelouch's trick and had a counter plan to it. Not everyone can be a genius like Lelouch and Schneizel, but it doesn't mean they are not smart. Cornelia was obviously a skilled leader well versed in tactics and strategies, she is just not on the level of Lelouch and Schneizel.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Strong willed? Darlton was a professional soldier and seems to have been 1 for a long time. People who command(he was a general) have to be strong willed and ready to make the tough decisions, it goes with the territory.

That does not mean he was more strong-willed than Euphie.

Also Euphie never really seemed that strong willed to me. Her only display of any type of will was with the formation of the SAZ and even then she went running to Schenziel for permission first.

Um... Euphemia has always been dead-set with what she believes is right. She never asks for help, she stood up during the hostage situation, she went to try and rescue Suzaku on her own, and she made Suzaku a knight though she knew everyone around her would disapprove. So, you need to re-evaluate things.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Lelouch would not have followed the same events in Code Geass if he did not have geass, one of the things that is basically drilled into you from this show is that Lelouch is not an idiot. Egoticial and bigmouthed, yes but not stupid.

So instead of trying to make his 'plan' happen he just wasted his time gambling and wasting away. Sorry, he wouldn't have the power to do anything.

Noone on this board will try to sell you that Lelouch's methods are somehow better then the Britannians, because they arn't. He admits that himself, he is fighting violence with violence.

Really? I have only been here for about a week and I have already seen quite a bit of it myself.

The rift between the Numbers and Britannians were always there and always will be. The Numbers are treated as slaves and they can only get the lowest paying jobs even if they become Honourary Britannians. The terrorists were around because there are Japanese that can't live under Britannian rule.

I understand that. But that doesn't mean that the rift didn't get worse. The Euphi incident alone is proof.

The support that Suzaku needs are from the ruling nobility, and not just a blind crippled princess propped up as a leader to garner sympathy.

What? Okay, this is just false. That is what Lelouch thought when Nunnally showed up as acting governor. But she said she VOLUNTEERED for the posistion so that claim was thrown out the window.

As for support from the nobility, it is hard to do that when Zero is around making everything worse so he can't get anything done. Hard to convince nobles to trust a group of people if they are always causing an uprising.

If you would look at Suzaku's character, he is more in control and less like the end of last season where he was basically a berserk avenger. He was clearly less angry, and the fact that he said that he wished Lelouch really regained his memory so that he could aks him about Euphie means he intend, or rather wished to know the truth about that incident. He even questioned why he did that to Euphie and that if it was Lelouch, he could have found another way. If you cannot see in trying to rationalize and search for the truth about the incident, instead of letting his anger become dominate as Suzaku's anger having diminished over the course of the year, then I have nothing more to add to this subject.

Suzaku was only out of control at the end of season one because of what happened. After a year, of course he will calm down somewhat. But that does not mean that his anger is gone completely. That is grasping at straws that aren't there if you think that. He is obviously still bothered by that whole incident.

The fact of the matter is, when it came to tough decisions, Suzaku has been shown to be unable to make choices himself without using others to do it for him

After reading what you just wrote, I see what you mean. But that still just makes him human with regular human emotions. He is conflicted with himself. Should he go with what Euphie would want or give into his anger? This is something that anyone, including you or I could have. As I said a while ago. being human should not be a flaw.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Watch Ep 10 again. The general was pretty much giving up because there forces were dropping like fly's and wetting himself because Todou wasn't there for a miracle. Also she launched a sneak attack so they wouldn't get wind of an attack and scatter.

Again, there were enough of them there that they had to resort to a sneak attack and completely surround them in order to achieve victory. If there wasn't a sneak attack, and not so many troops, the JLF would have easily busted through.

he only collaspsed the outer edge of the settlement to avoid needless civilain casualties(he could've collapsed the whole thing except the school)

There were still plenty of people in those buildings he collapsed. As for the town being evacuated, yeah, you are right. I concede that point.

and he did not deliberately order her to massacre the elevens

I know. Which is why I said "technically."

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Orga777

That does not mean he was more strong-willed than Euphie.

But it doesn't make him anyless either. Also even though he was "only" shot in the side, his geass stopped him from going for proper medical attention. He had probably lost a load of blood judging from the fact it was broad daylight when he had it placed on him and then pitch black when he popped up again.

Originally Posted by Orga777

There were still plenty of people in those buildings he collapsed.

Do you honestly believe that Cornelia(or some other lackey) did not have the civilains evacuated from the outskirts and transfered to someplace safe? Killing numbers may be fine as far as the Britannians are concerned but killing your own people or leaving them in harms way is both stupid and bad for moral.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

But it doesn't make him anyless either.

Not really. Darlton does not hesitate to follow orders. Euphemia pretty much never follows orders. There is a difference there too.

Also even though he was "only" shot in the side, his geass stopped him from going for proper medical attention. He had probably lost a load of blood judging from the fact it was broad daylight when he had it placed on him and then pitch black when he popped up again.

Yet he was still alive while Euphemia wasn't.

Do you honestly believe that Cornelia(or some other lackey) did not have the civilains evacuated from the outskirts and transfered to someplace safe? Killing numbers may be fine as far as the Britannians are concerned but killing your own people or leaving them in harms way is both stupid and bad for moral.

I don't think anybody expected it to happen that day. Even Lelouch said that there is no way that all the buildings were evacuated because there was no time for it.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Orga777

So instead of trying to make his 'plan' happen he just wasted his time gambling and wasting away. Sorry, he wouldn't have the power to do anything.

Really? I have only been here for about a week and I have already seen quite a bit of it myself.

I understand that. But that doesn't mean that the rift didn't get worse. The Euphi incident alone is proof.

What? Okay, this is just false. That is what Lelouch thought when Nunnally showed up as acting governor. But she said she VOLUNTEERED for the posistion so that claim was thrown out the window.

As for support from the nobility, it is hard to do that when Zero is around making everything worse so he can't get anything done. Hard to convince nobles to trust a group of people if they are always causing an uprising.

Suzaku was only out of control at the end of season one because of what happened. After a year, of course he will calm down somewhat. But that does not mean that his anger is gone completely. That is grasping at straws that aren't there if you think that. He is obviously still bothered by that whole incident.

After reading what you just wrote, I see what you mean. But that still just makes him human with regular human emotions. He is conflicted with himself. Should he go with what Euphie would want or give into his anger? This is something that anyone, including you or I could have. As I said a while ago. being human should not be a flaw.

You seem to be under the belief that Lelouch would have used the exact same plan with geass as he would have without. As I see it Lelouch would have had another plan, one that would have taken longer and more preparations until he had the geass and was able to move ahead in a more expedient fashion.

Well, I can't really comment on your experiences, but I do not recall people saying that Lelouch's methods are somehow better then the people he is fighting. The general consensus seems to be that his methods were really not much better, just that his intentions are.

Nunnally volunteered, but it did not change the fact that they did not expect her to be anything but a puppet leader. I already pointed this out in the episode 8 thread weeks ago. Do you think that Rohmeiyer would have the nerve to tell someone like Cornelia to "Follow the script next time", or that the administrators would make the decision themselves to exile Zero on the Governer's authority without consulting her? Nunally did found out about the decision to exile Zero with her authority after the decision was made, and she heard it from Suzaku. These are not liberties you take with a leader that you expect to, well, lead.

The nobles would support change to the system? Now who is grasping at straws. If the nobles were receptive to such an idea then it would not take Euphie giving up her claim to the throne to establish something as simple as the SAZ. Zero's rebellion may not have helped in the Number's relations with the Britannians, but the relationship between the two people were already strained before he came along. Regardless, the nobles would not support Suzaku's reforms because it would undermine their perceived superiority.

Ok, I am begining to wonder if you are not completely misunderstanding what I am saying. Diminished does not mean gone, I never claimed Suzaku is not still bothered by the incident. I only said that Suzaku's anger has diminished as in lessened, that instead of the howling berserker of one year ago, he actually wanted answers to the why did Lelouch do that to Euphie. I repeat, Suzaku is still bothered by it and still carries that incident with him but, and this is a big but, instead of screaming for revenge, like a certain tablefapping psycho, he wants to find out the truth and hear it from Lelouch.

There's nothing wrong with being human and having flaws, it is however entirely different when he is aiming for a position where he will essentially decide the fate of millions. If Suzaku wants to be a governor then being indecisive is not a point in his favour. And also we are all hesitant about certain things, the point is whether we are about to learn and grow from those eperiences. Suzaku so far have just been stagnating.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Not really. Darlton does not hesitate to follow orders. Euphemia pretty much never follows orders. There is a difference there too.

There is a difference betweem being strong willed and just stubborn. Also as a Princess not many people can order her around Darlton on the other hand as a soldier has to follow a chain of command.

Originally Posted by Orga777

Yet he was still alive while Euphemia wasn't.

It doesn't mean he wasn't on his last legs. Also listen to his yell of "Hime-Sama" as if he can't believe what he's seeing/done. He cares for her as much as Guilford. Lelouch even said "Andreas Darlton. The man most trusted by Cornelia".

Originally Posted by Orga777

I don't think anybody expected it to happen that day. Even Lelouch said that there is no way that all the buildings were evacuated because there was no time for it.

She shouldn't have been dragging her ass then instead of locking herself up in Euphies room. Also Lulu was trying to wipe them all out/or as many as he could in 1 blow to prevent it degenerating into a street fight which would have resulted in massive civilain casualties.

[Kaze]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Ok, I am begining to wonder if you are not completely misunderstanding what I am saying. Diminished does not mean gone, I never claimed Suzaku is not still bothered by the incident. I only said that Suzaku's anger has diminished as in lessened, that instead of the howling berserker of one year ago, he actually wanted answers to the why did Lelouch do that to Euphie. I repeat, Suzaku is still bothered by it and still carries that incident with him but, and this is a big but, instead of screaming for revenge, like a certain tablefapping psycho, he wants to find out the truth and hear it from Lelouch.

Spoiler for Howling Beserker:

That compared to how he looks now should prove Demon_God's point.

I do find it a bit silly though, that now he wants to find out the truth when he could have asked Lelouch back in ep 25 on the island >_>

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Nourredine

Spoiler for Howling Beserker:

That compared to how he looks now should prove Demon_God's point.

I do find it a bit silly though, that now he wants to find out the truth when he could have asked Lelouch back in ep 25 on the island >_>

Thanks for the pic, that certainly illustrates it well.

Well to be honest, if I lost someone important to me in that fashion, I doubt I would be all that rational either. Theres a reason why crimes of passion are committed, in the heat of the moment it is hard to control yourself.

[ZeroSama]

Suzaku and logical thought hardly go together at the best of times.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

You seem to be under the belief that Lelouch would have used the exact same plan with geass as he would have without. As I see it Lelouch would have had another plan, one that would have taken longer and more preparations until he had the geass and was able to move ahead in a more expedient fashion.

If he waited too long it would have been too late.

Nunnally volunteered, but it did not change the fact that they did not expect her to be anything but a puppet leader. I already pointed this out in the episode 8 thread weeks ago. Do you think that Rohmeiyer would have the nerve to tell someone like Cornelia to "Follow the script next time", or that the administrators would make the decision themselves to exile Zero on the Governer's authority without consulting her? Nunally did found out about the decision to exile Zero with her authority after the decision was made, and she heard it from Suzaku. These are not liberties you take with a leader that you expect to, well, lead.

Excellent points... You win this round.

The nobles would support change to the system? Now who is grasping at straws. If the nobles were receptive to such an idea then it would not take Euphie giving up her claim to the throne to establish something as simple as the SAZ. Zero's rebellion may not have helped in the Number's relations with the Britannians, but the relationship between the two people were already strained before he came along. Regardless, the nobles would not support Suzaku's reforms because it would undermine their perceived superiority.

Which is an even bigger point. Until Suzaku gets into a higher position, what do you EXPECT him to do? You just made it clear that the nobles wouldn't listen to what he had to say anyway, so taking the slow and sure way (at least in my eyes) is better than just fighting a war. These things take time. They just don't happen over night.

Ok, I am begining to wonder if you are not completely misunderstanding what I am saying. Diminished does not mean gone, I never claimed Suzaku is not still bothered by the incident. I only said that Suzaku's anger has diminished as in lessened, that instead of the howling berserker of one year ago, he actually wanted answers to the why did Lelouch do that to Euphie. I repeat, Suzaku is still bothered by it and still carries that incident with him but, and this is a big but, instead of screaming for revenge, like a certain tablefapping psycho, he wants to find out the truth and hear it from Lelouch.

That is fine, but that doesn't mean he still isn't conflicted in his head. Just because he wants answers does not mean that every time Zero does something he doesn't like, he won't think of doing the wrong thing. And even if he thinks about doing the wrong thing, does he ever really let it happen?

There's nothing wrong with being human and having flaws, it is however entirely different when he is aiming for a position where he will essentially decide the fate of millions. If Suzaku wants to be a governor then being indecisive is not a point in his favour. And also we are all hesitant about certain things, the point is whether we are about to learn and grow from those experiences. Suzaku so far have just been stagnating.

The only thing I can do here is disagree. He has only ever been indecisive about two things. Killing needlessly, and anything involving Zero. If Zero was gone, would he actually hesitate? I have to say no.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Orga777

If he waited too long it would have been too late.

Excellent points... You win this round.

Which is an even bigger point. Until Suzaku gets into a higher position, what do you EXPECT him to do? You just made it clear that the nobles wouldn't listen to what he had to say anyway, so taking the slow and sure way (at least in my eyes) is better than just fighting a war. These things take time. They just don't happen over night.

That is fine, but that doesn't mean he still isn't conflicted in his head. Just because he wants answers does not mean that every time Zero does something he doesn't like, he won't think of doing the wrong thing. And even if he thinks about doing the wrong thing, does he ever really let it happen?

The only thing I can do here is disagree. He has only ever been indecisive about two things. Killing needlessly, and anything involving Zero. If Zero was gone, would he actually hesitate? I have to say no.

I expect Suzaku to have a plan and short term goals on how to acomplish his ideal, not just some vague idea. Even if he becomes the Knight of One and the governer of Area 11, it still does not change how Britannia views the Areas and Numbers. Things may be abit better for the Elevens while he is around but still does not solve things for when he is gone.

He may still want Zero as was evident in episode 10 when he was just iching to get back out to pursue him, he is also not unreasonable. I'm not sure what point you are arguing here because from where I am standing this is a point that is in favour of Suzaku.

The incident with the assassin that tried to kill him and his execution order did not involve Zero in anyway. Did Suzaku hesitate? I have to say yes, because it was Anya that signed the order in the end when it was Suzaku's responisbility to do so. Before you jump to his defence and say that he always had a problem with killing needlessly and such, the assassin broke the law and his punishment was death. Now Suzaku could have lessen his sentence or done something, but instead he just stood there staring at the order hoping someone else would make the decision for him. That is not the type of person you want to be in a position that can decide the life and death of millions of people. Leaders often find themselves in a postion to make those hard choices and hesitation and indecision can often cost lives.

[orangejuicetang]

I do find it a bit silly though, that now he wants to find out the truth when he could have asked Lelouch back in ep 25 on the island >_>

To be fair, he did sort of ask why he didn't go along with Euphie's plan, and Lelouch blew the question off instead of answering.

[Dann of Thursday]

Suzaku wasn't in any state where it would have mattered what Lelouch said. I'm pretty sure he would have shot no matter what.

[demon_god04]

The way Suzaku phrased it didn't really sound like he was expecting or even really looking for an answer. He was just very very angry.

[Dann of Thursday]

I'd agree with that. I don't think he really cared what Lelouch said. Now though, he might be willing to listen. I doubt we'll ever hear Lelouch explain what happened though.

[orangejuicetang]

The way Lelouch answered wasn't very helpful either. When someone who is very pissed off at you is pointing a gun at you, regardless, it would probably be best to try not to piss him off further. I just personally thought that he could have chosen a better answer, rather than blow it off and bring up Suzuku's patricide as well, when trying to get help from a pissed off person pointing a gun at him.

[demon_god04]

Lelouch is not the type to make excuses either, he carries the burdens of the things he has done.

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

The way Lelouch answered wasn't very helpful either. When someone who is very pissed off at you is pointing a gun at you, regardless, it would probably be best to try not to piss him off further. I just personally thought that he could have chosen a better answer, rather than blow it off and bring up Suzuku's patricide as well, when trying to get help from a pissed off person pointing a gun at him.

Anything Lelouch could have said would only sound like an excuse to save his skin, Suzaku was not in the mind to listen to a rational argument.

[Eliarine]

Unfortunately, we will never how Suzaku would have reacted to the truth because Lelouch decided not to tell him anything, and even managed to further piss him. It would be a bit unfair to judge him on anything we think might have happened.

[demon_god04]

Why must you get so defensive, we are not even judging Suzaku. Suzaku was more emotional then logical in the cave, he had already made up his mind about Lelouch at that point. Anything Lelouch would have said would just sound like an excuse and it is not something that he would do.