AnimeSuki Forums

Demongod86 · 2006-12-30, 15:29

Ace Combat Zero parody? The trailer for that game looks nothing short of breathtaking and amazing. I don't think it can be matched with a parody.

mlai · 2006-12-30, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Head to Type-Moon's official site:
http://www.typemoon.com/main.html
and check their download section.

YAY! Got them! Thank you!

Question · 2007-01-01, 13:19

Now all we need is for someone to do a translation of the novels.

Its in japanese, those of us who cant read it wont have a clue.

Oh and apparently the 4th war lancer has 2 NPs......one is some kind of "dispel magic" thing and one is similar to gae bolg.

mlai · 2007-01-01, 18:54

If that obscure dude Diarmuid or something is truly the Zero Lancer, I don't think he had any NPs.

I know about him after reading a novelization of Finn Mac Cool... this guy is a minor character in a legend at best... he's not remotely a hero, nevermind using twin spears.

I don't know why Type Moon is using him. There really are plenty of spear-using heroes around the world... I'm sure a good angsty backstory can be cooked up with any one of them. Why this guy? Unless this guy has some obscure side-legend that I don't know about.

Question · 2007-01-02, 01:56

Check the beast lair forum......from what some of the people said he has the 2 NPs i mentioned above. Keep in mind that the heroes TM uses in the fate series tend to be slightly different versions of what our historical records say. COUGH SEIBAAAAAA COUGH. So i wouldnt rule out the possibility that lancer has NPs that historical records dont mention.

mlai · 2007-01-02, 14:40

If Zero Lancer is either of the 2 Ajaxes and not the Irish dude, then it makes more sense.

Although I do wish they look further than Mesopotamia, Greece, and Celts for hero ideas. You can come up with 10 obscure and good ones just by surfing Wikipedia.

Anyways, the reason Gil may hate Alexander (in the preview) is prolly because Alex conquered and disintegrated the Persian Empire and was known by Arabs as "the accursed." Babylon was part of the Persian Empire at that time.

HOWEVER, in actual history, Alex preserved what he conquered, and he was a known Arab-phile. Babylon prospered under his dominion, and declined only after his death.

Demongod86 · 2007-01-02, 18:03

Didn't he raze Persepolis?

mlai · 2007-01-02, 18:06

Persepolis is not Babylon.

Since Gil's ppl weren't really Persians, I don't see why he would care about any city other than Babylon.

Lackadaisical · 2007-01-03, 02:09

The focus on Western heroes may be due to the fact that Asian heroes would be a bit to well known to the Japanese audience. There are a lot of shows and games in Japan centered around those characters. Focusing on foreign heroes would give the creators more leeway in action and make the concept of summoning heroes from the past more original.

The heroes needed to be well-known enough to attract interest but not so much that there presence seemed unoriginal. Foreign legends serve that better than regional legends.

As for Alexander and Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh considers himself king of everything. Alexander is essentially the closest thing he has in competition for that title. By all accounts, Alexander seems to be one of the most powerful servants in Zero. As such, Gilgamesh, being Gilgamesh, would likely become even more annoyed at any potential threat.

Gilgamesh's legend in FSN is different than the legend of Gilgamesh as we know it. I don't think history can account for any dislike between Gilgamesh and Alexander.

The Arabs didn't conquer Mesopotamia until nine hundred years after Alexander. Arab involvement in Mesopotamia and the Middle East beyond the Arabian Peninsula was still limited to merchantile matters at the time of Alexander. Alexander held Persian society in high regard, to the discontent of his army. He also attempted to merge Greek and Persian society into one within his kingdom. There isn't any evidence regarding what he thought of the Arabs. Babylon was destroyed largely because of the Arab invasions as well. There isn't any relevance of the Arabs to either Gilgamesh or Alexander in legend or historically.

There are some summaries of Fate Zero in this thread at Beast's Lair. A snippet:

"Later, Iskandar then asks what Waver wants with the grail
Waver stutters and says he wants to make the Clock Tower recognize his genius.
Iskandar slaps him and Waver gets knocked down flat because he's a wuss.
Iskandar goes on saying that's he a small-minded wuss and then decides that Waver will have his height increased by 30 cm with the power of the holy grail so he can get a bigger perspective."

Alexander is love in Fate Zero. On a historical note, Alexander might have ordered Persepolis destroyed while he was drunk at the request of a lady he was sleeping with.

mlai · 2007-01-03, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lackadaisical

The focus on Western heroes may be due to the fact that Asian heroes would be a bit to well known to the Japanese audience. There are a lot of shows and games in Japan centered around those characters. Focusing on foreign heroes would give the creators more leeway in action and make the concept of summoning heroes from the past more original.

I'm not talking about Jpnese heroes. Of course, no one wants to see more Jpnese heroes. On that I agree with Type Moon. I was surprised there was only 1 Jpnese hero in FSN, and a 2nd Banana type at that. A lesser storyteller prolly would have chosen Mr. you-know-who ninja as the Assassin card. Still, I dislike the fact that Sasake is portrayed as fictitious just so Jpn wouldn't have 1 of its stars defeated.

I'm talking about the fact that there are tons of obscure foreign heroes that could be chosen, in terms of obscure globally but very important nationally or regionally. There's tons of fun to be had because the Jpnese (and American) audience know virtually nothing about them, but can find the relevant info if they cared to look online.

I don't think there's such a thing as "too obscure." Seriously, how many Jpnese viewers knew the details of Medea or Cuhulainn or Hassan without having to skim thru Jpnese wiki? Gluskab or Sundiata would be just as obscure (and as regionally important) as them for ppl who aren't interested in Celtic myths and such.

Quote:

The Arabs didn't conquer Mesopotamia until nine hundred years after Alexander. Arab involvement in Mesopotamia and the Middle East beyond the Arabian Peninsula was still limited to merchantile matters at the time of Alexander.

By Alexander's time, Babylon had already changed hands from Gil's original dominant culture and ethnic populace. It was Persian.

depthcharge101 · 2007-01-04, 12:27

well if it's a paper novel i guess there wouldn't be any h stuff (not that it's a bad thing) and i dont think there will be any different routes/paths like a novel text game.

cyoti · 2007-01-04, 12:30

Isn't the inclusion of Diarmuid as Lancer more of an attempt at setting a pattern of having only irish characters in that spot?

Also out of curiosity, does anyone have any ideas on the identities of the Berserker and the Caster Bluebeard?

mlai · 2007-01-04, 15:56

Novels can have plenty of sex too. I don't care as long as Saber is spared.

Irish-only Lancers? Why would they do that?

How the heck is Bluebeard a caster??? There are plenty of legendary evil wizards to be used...

Demongod86 · 2007-01-04, 16:00

Why does the caster always have to be evil ?:S

Well maybe it's Bluebeard so people can cheer more when Saber or Gilgamesh beats down his pansy ass.

mlai · 2007-01-04, 16:23

Yeah, but how is Bluebeard a magic user?? You have to be an uber magic user to qualify as a Caster heroic spirit!

Continuing my mention of the Sundiata epic, his nemesis was "Soumaoro Kanté, cruel sorcerer king of Sosso."
"Soumaoro Kanté (sometimes Sumanguru) was a thirteenth century king of the Sosso people of the Takrur region." The man got his magic powers from a talking stone head, and had a magical weakness to arrows fixed with white rooster feathers.
He had a secret room which puts Bluebeard's to shame:
"One day when the king was away, Balla Fasseke managed to get right into the most secret chamber of the palace where Soumaoro safeguarded his fetishes. When he had pushed the door open he was transfixed with amazement at what he saw. The walls of the chamber were tapestried with human skins and there was one in the middle of the room on which the king sat; around an earthenware jar nine heads formed a circle; when Balla had opened the door the water had become disturbed and a monstrous snake had raised its head. Balla Fasseke, who was also well versed in sorcery, recited some formulas and everything in the room fell quiet, so he continued his inspection. He saw on a perch above the bed three owls which seemed to be asleep; on the far wall hung strangely-shaped weapons, curved swords and knives with three cutting edges. He looked at the skulls attentively and recognized the nine kings killed by Soumaoro."

Archer · 2007-01-04, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlai

Yeah, but how is Bluebeard a magic user?? You have to be an uber magic user to qualify as a Caster heroic spirit!

Continuing my mention of the Sundiata epic, his nemesis was "Soumaoro Kanté, cruel sorcerer king of Sosso."
"Soumaoro Kanté (sometimes Sumanguru) was a thirteenth century king of the Sosso people of the Takrur region." The man got his magic powers from a talking stone head, and had a magical weakness to arrows fixed with white rooster feathers.
He had a secret room which puts Bluebeard's to shame:
"One day when the king was away, Balla Fasseke managed to get right into the most secret chamber of the palace where Soumaoro safeguarded his fetishes. When he had pushed the door open he was transfixed with amazement at what he saw. The walls of the chamber were tapestried with human skins and there was one in the middle of the room on which the king sat; around an earthenware jar nine heads formed a circle; when Balla had opened the door the water had become disturbed and a monstrous snake had raised its head. Balla Fasseke, who was also well versed in sorcery, recited some formulas and everything in the room fell quiet, so he continued his inspection. He saw on a perch above the bed three owls which seemed to be asleep; on the far wall hung strangely-shaped weapons, curved swords and knives with three cutting edges. He looked at the skulls attentively and recognized the nine kings killed by Soumaoro."

Bluebeard was known to associate with alchemists, satanists, and black magic, so.

Demongod86 · 2007-01-04, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlai

Yeah, but how is Bluebeard a magic user?? You have to be an uber magic user to qualify as a Caster heroic spirit!

Continuing my mention of the Sundiata epic, his nemesis was "Soumaoro Kanté, cruel sorcerer king of Sosso."
"Soumaoro Kanté (sometimes Sumanguru) was a thirteenth century king of the Sosso people of the Takrur region." The man got his magic powers from a talking stone head, and had a magical weakness to arrows fixed with white rooster feathers.
He had a secret room which puts Bluebeard's to shame:
"One day when the king was away, Balla Fasseke managed to get right into the most secret chamber of the palace where Soumaoro safeguarded his fetishes. When he had pushed the door open he was transfixed with amazement at what he saw. The walls of the chamber were tapestried with human skins and there was one in the middle of the room on which the king sat; around an earthenware jar nine heads formed a circle; when Balla had opened the door the water had become disturbed and a monstrous snake had raised its head. Balla Fasseke, who was also well versed in sorcery, recited some formulas and everything in the room fell quiet, so he continued his inspection. He saw on a perch above the bed three owls which seemed to be asleep; on the far wall hung strangely-shaped weapons, curved swords and knives with three cutting edges. He looked at the skulls attentively and recognized the nine kings killed by Soumaoro."

Sundiata was such a horrible book. I read it in freshman year English in high school. Ugh.

In terms of mythology, Greek >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALL.

Though 47 Ronin was nothing short of amazing.

mlai · 2007-01-04, 18:19

Norse > Greek

For me.

Which version of Bluebeard is this, who associates with Satanists and alchemists?

Edit:

Ah I see, Gilles de Rais. Bless wiki. Heh, leave it to Nitro+ to find such a sicko for Fate Zero. Cool, I stand corrected.

(I kept thinking of Blackbeard.)

Village Idiot · 2007-01-05, 15:23

I was looking at the Fate/Zero article at Wikipedia, and it lists Berserker as "The Black Knight".

Anyone else suddenly got the image of The Black Knight from Monty Python in their heads?

Senigata · 2007-01-09, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Anyone else suddenly got the image of The Black Knight from Monty Python in their heads?

Would be a nice pun if they actually would do something like that

Saber: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
Berserker: 'Tis but a scratch.
Saber: A scratch? Your arm's off.
Berserker: No it isn't.
Saber: What's that, then?
Berserker: [after a pause] I've had worse.
Saber: You liar.
Berserker: Come on ya pansy.

Berserker: Right, I'll do you for that!
Saber: You'll what?
Berserker: Come here!
Saber: What are you gonna do, bleed on me?
Berserker: I'm invincible!
Saber: ...You're a loony.

But now for some guessing, since Irisviel will probably die (since like Ilya she's probably the Grail Vessel) do you think that's one of the things that hount Kiritsugu till he died ?

2006-12-30, 15:29	Link #61
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	Ace Combat Zero parody? The trailer for that game looks nothing short of breathtaking and amazing. I don't think it can be matched with a parody. __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2007-01-02, 18:03	Link #67
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	Didn't he raze Persepolis? __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2007-01-04, 16:00	Link #74
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	Why does the caster always have to be evil ?:S Well maybe it's Bluebeard so people can cheer more when Saber or Gilgamesh beats down his pansy ass. __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2007-01-05, 15:23	Link #79
Village Idiot Fate/ Stay Night Join Date: Jun 2003	I was looking at the Fate/Zero article at Wikipedia, and it lists Berserker as "The Black Knight". Anyone else suddenly got the image of The Black Knight from Monty Python in their heads? __________________ Sig removed by Mod (xris) because at 65,726 bytes it exceeds the limits as requested in the forum rules.

2007-01-01, 13:19	Link #63
Question Crossdresser Join Date: Jun 2006	Now all we need is for someone to do a translation of the novels. Its in japanese, those of us who cant read it wont have a clue. Oh and apparently the 4th war lancer has 2 NPs......one is some kind of "dispel magic" thing and one is similar to gae bolg.

2007-01-01, 18:54	Link #64
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	If that obscure dude Diarmuid or something is truly the Zero Lancer, I don't think he had any NPs. I know about him after reading a novelization of Finn Mac Cool... this guy is a minor character in a legend at best... he's not remotely a hero, nevermind using twin spears. I don't know why Type Moon is using him. There really are plenty of spear-using heroes around the world... I'm sure a good angsty backstory can be cooked up with any one of them. Why this guy? Unless this guy has some obscure side-legend that I don't know about.

2007-01-02, 01:56	Link #65
Question Crossdresser Join Date: Jun 2006	Check the beast lair forum......from what some of the people said he has the 2 NPs i mentioned above. Keep in mind that the heroes TM uses in the fate series tend to be slightly different versions of what our historical records say. COUGH SEIBAAAAAA COUGH. So i wouldnt rule out the possibility that lancer has NPs that historical records dont mention.

2007-01-02, 14:40	Link #66
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	If Zero Lancer is either of the 2 Ajaxes and not the Irish dude, then it makes more sense. Although I do wish they look further than Mesopotamia, Greece, and Celts for hero ideas. You can come up with 10 obscure and good ones just by surfing Wikipedia. Anyways, the reason Gil may hate Alexander (in the preview) is prolly because Alex conquered and disintegrated the Persian Empire and was known by Arabs as "the accursed." Babylon was part of the Persian Empire at that time. HOWEVER, in actual history, Alex preserved what he conquered, and he was a known Arab-phile. Babylon prospered under his dominion, and declined only after his death.

2007-01-02, 18:06	Link #68
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Persepolis is not Babylon. Since Gil's ppl weren't really Persians, I don't see why he would care about any city other than Babylon.

2007-01-03, 02:09	Link #69
Lackadaisical Member Join Date: Oct 2004	The focus on Western heroes may be due to the fact that Asian heroes would be a bit to well known to the Japanese audience. There are a lot of shows and games in Japan centered around those characters. Focusing on foreign heroes would give the creators more leeway in action and make the concept of summoning heroes from the past more original. The heroes needed to be well-known enough to attract interest but not so much that there presence seemed unoriginal. Foreign legends serve that better than regional legends. As for Alexander and Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh considers himself king of everything. Alexander is essentially the closest thing he has in competition for that title. By all accounts, Alexander seems to be one of the most powerful servants in Zero. As such, Gilgamesh, being Gilgamesh, would likely become even more annoyed at any potential threat. Gilgamesh's legend in FSN is different than the legend of Gilgamesh as we know it. I don't think history can account for any dislike between Gilgamesh and Alexander. The Arabs didn't conquer Mesopotamia until nine hundred years after Alexander. Arab involvement in Mesopotamia and the Middle East beyond the Arabian Peninsula was still limited to merchantile matters at the time of Alexander. Alexander held Persian society in high regard, to the discontent of his army. He also attempted to merge Greek and Persian society into one within his kingdom. There isn't any evidence regarding what he thought of the Arabs. Babylon was destroyed largely because of the Arab invasions as well. There isn't any relevance of the Arabs to either Gilgamesh or Alexander in legend or historically. There are some summaries of Fate Zero in this thread at Beast's Lair. A snippet: "Later, Iskandar then asks what Waver wants with the grail Waver stutters and says he wants to make the Clock Tower recognize his genius. Iskandar slaps him and Waver gets knocked down flat because he's a wuss. Iskandar goes on saying that's he a small-minded wuss and then decides that Waver will have his height increased by 30 cm with the power of the holy grail so he can get a bigger perspective." Alexander is love in Fate Zero. On a historical note, Alexander might have ordered Persepolis destroyed while he was drunk at the request of a lady he was sleeping with.

2007-01-04, 12:27	Link #71
depthcharge101 Member Join Date: Jul 2006	well if it's a paper novel i guess there wouldn't be any h stuff (not that it's a bad thing) and i dont think there will be any different routes/paths like a novel text game.

2007-01-04, 12:30	Link #72
cyoti Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Isn't the inclusion of Diarmuid as Lancer more of an attempt at setting a pattern of having only irish characters in that spot? Also out of curiosity, does anyone have any ideas on the identities of the Berserker and the Caster Bluebeard?

2007-01-04, 15:56	Link #73
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Novels can have plenty of sex too. I don't care as long as Saber is spared. Irish-only Lancers? Why would they do that? How the heck is Bluebeard a caster??? There are plenty of legendary evil wizards to be used...

2007-01-04, 16:23	Link #75
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Yeah, but how is Bluebeard a magic user?? You have to be an uber magic user to qualify as a Caster heroic spirit! Continuing my mention of the Sundiata epic, his nemesis was "Soumaoro Kanté, cruel sorcerer king of Sosso." "Soumaoro Kanté (sometimes Sumanguru) was a thirteenth century king of the Sosso people of the Takrur region." The man got his magic powers from a talking stone head, and had a magical weakness to arrows fixed with white rooster feathers. He had a secret room which puts Bluebeard's to shame: "One day when the king was away, Balla Fasseke managed to get right into the most secret chamber of the palace where Soumaoro safeguarded his fetishes. When he had pushed the door open he was transfixed with amazement at what he saw. The walls of the chamber were tapestried with human skins and there was one in the middle of the room on which the king sat; around an earthenware jar nine heads formed a circle; when Balla had opened the door the water had become disturbed and a monstrous snake had raised its head. Balla Fasseke, who was also well versed in sorcery, recited some formulas and everything in the room fell quiet, so he continued his inspection. He saw on a perch above the bed three owls which seemed to be asleep; on the far wall hung strangely-shaped weapons, curved swords and knives with three cutting edges. He looked at the skulls attentively and recognized the nine kings killed by Soumaoro."

2007-01-04, 18:19	Link #78
mlai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Norse > Greek For me. Which version of Bluebeard is this, who associates with Satanists and alchemists? Edit: Ah I see, Gilles de Rais. Bless wiki. Heh, leave it to Nitro+ to find such a sicko for Fate Zero. Cool, I stand corrected. (I kept thinking of Blackbeard.)