Mari Okada discussion

[Triple_R]

Cross-dressing males used for comedy and/or fetish purposes is somewhat common in anime, and Okada has a particular fondness of it. That's probably the most accurate way of putting it, I think.

Cross-dressing males is not quite on the level of *guy stumbles in on girl in a state of undress, he gets attacked for it*, but it's only a notch or two below that level. I've seen it enough times in non-Okada anime shows to know that this goes well beyond Okada.

Nonetheless, Okada embraces this element often enough that it's understandable that people would be prepared/expecting to see it in an Okada work.


All of that being said, I think that Okada has a bit of an unfair rap when it comes to "emasculating males". Thinking back on it, I think a lot of us (myself included, I'll admit) put a bit too much weight on one lone show - Hanasaku Iroha. Outside of HSI, Okada's male characters aren't particularly weak compared to her female characters. Most notably, I felt that the male cast of Aquarion EVOL was pretty strong, and actually I think its male cast was stronger than its female cast overall.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Cross-dressing males used for comedy and/or fetish purposes is somewhat common in anime, and Okada has a particular fondness of it.

I'm not sure how to define "fetish purposes" so I won't adress it but I do want to make a point for comedy.
A whole lot of times the crossdressing isn't done for comedy, it certainly wasn't in Ano Hana or Lupin III or AKB0048 (hell, in that show the crossdresser is quite well respected), the only time it was used for comedy in an Okada original I can think of is HSI and that was a brief dream sequence.
(edit: forgot that it was also done for comedy in one Lupin III scene so there's that as well)

You'll see it done for comedy in adaptations such as Sakurasou, but in those cases it was already present in the original work.
And as a reminder,her Zakuro adaptation actually takes out a crossdressing scene that was in the manga

I do think she might have an interest in the subject,she did work on the adaptation of Wandering Son afterall, but I don't think she just sees it as a way to get a cheap laugh from the audience.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

I'm not sure how to define "fetish purposes" so I won't adress it but I do want to make a point for comedy.
A whole lot of times the crossdressing isn't done for comedy, it certainly wasn't in Ano Hana or Lupin III or AKB0048 (hell, in that show the crossdresser is quite well respected), the only time it was used for comedy in an Okada original I can think of is HSI and that was a brief dream sequence.
(edit: forgot that it was also done for comedy in one Lupin III scene so there's that as well)

I have to be honest - I found "Menma" hilarious. So I somewhat disagree with you on AnoHana.

Yes, I think that "Menma" was meant to display just how disturbingly obsessed Yukiatsu was with his long-dead childhood friend, so there was a dark and serious side to it. But in the heat of the moment, during Menma's first appearance, I have to admit I found it pretty funny and I loled.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But in the heat of the moment, during Menma's first appearance, I have to admit I found it pretty funny and I loled.

Well I said it wasn't done for comedy,not that you couldn't find it funny! (I could say the same thing for other things Okada has written )

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

Well I said it wasn't done for comedy,not that you couldn't find it funny! (I could say the same thing for other things Okada has written )

I think that Menma was meant to be funny. Not just funny, but that was part of it. In other words, I don't think this was unintentional comedy. No, that was AnoHana's last episode for some of us, I think.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Okada can't use cross-dressing in serious/non-fetish ways. Wandering Son alone demonstrates that in flying colors.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, that's one thing that I percieve from Okada's work. She never fails to make me laugh. Though some people might get mad when I say I laugh at some of the more sentimental scenes.

[totoum]

Ok, thanks to Michael Huang's twitter account there's some info from a couple Okada panels

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by totoum

-On Hourou Musuko: she loved the original story. Good to work on sexuality/gender issues; she has friends struggling with them. (totoum note: bolded that because of all the "Okada and crossdressing" posts)

That really explains a lot about her apparent constant use of crossdressing in her works. Maybe someday she'll be able to do a full work on the subject.

[Guardian Enzo]

Q:What kind of details do you pay attention to when script writing?
A:Characters have a mind of their own. She does not bend the characters to fit the plot.

In my own attempts at writing, this has struck me as absolutely critical, frustrating as it can be. I might argue that Okada has slipped on this score at times, but at least she acknowledges the need to pursue the ideal.

[Archon_Wing]

Wait Hiromi was based off herself. I wonder if she plays ball then. And she wants to be Noe. Man that just feels awkward atm though it makes some degree of sense if we think about what Noe represents in show. That also explains certain characters that have similarity to Hiromi (Minko, Tsurukko),, though more the later than the former.

Ah so her interest in gender issues are related to his friends. Yea, I was guessing she really has a genuine interest in the issue despite the lol moments that pop up. It was worth bringing up, I guess. Wonder if she's writing for her friends, lol.

As for Anohana being her first origina. That seems kinda strange; unless they consider True Tears to be an adaptation. (That's really obscure), though I'd imagine it'd be the first work where she had the most pull to write.

Jintan reflects her too. Wat. Well, I'm guessing that in combination with the other Tidbit means she seems to be somewhat socially withdrawn or not particularly expressive.

Q: were the depiction of the struggles of the artists in Sakurasou informed by her own personal experiences?
A:the author of Sakurasou is a childhood friend and they both aspired as youth to become pros. Their experiences informed it

lol childhood friends

- Okada isn’t attracted to flawless characters. She prefers men who are flawed for instance, but also with her female protagonists.

Me too, although it seems like in practice there seems to be a clash.

-She doesn’t like harem leads. There has to be a reason: maybe the male lead is having a great time, or maybe weakness too…

O_O So apparently even Okada has a limit for fail male characters.

Hah, wonder what she thinks about Yosuga no Sora then.

[Triple_R]

My impression is that Okada values realism, or at least believability.

This is something that flawless characters, and harem male leads, share in common - They're often not believable/realistic (with harem leads, it's their situation that makes them that way, however believable/realistic their personality/overall character might be).


It's interesting how Okada views Hiromi as her real self, and Noe as her ideal self. Noe is extremely open about who she is, and she's very whimsical, and she's completely non-pretentious, but even with all of that, she's very innocent (and a bit naive). Hiromi is more mature, more practical, more careful over what she does and says. I think this reflects how Okada likes the idea of the completely open and hopeful person, but recognizes the pitfalls such a person is likely to run into in the modern world. What makes Noe likable is sadly also what makes her very vulnerable. So Noe becomes a likeable but risky ideal, while Hiromi reflects a more properly cautious individual.

[Archon_Wing]

It makes True Tears sadder when explained like this. T_T It makes it almost sound like the "Death of the author". Honestly a sentence like that has far more impact on my thoughts then some of the waterbucket melodrama.

But it's kinda true that sometimes you want to be something but you can't, because people just aren't able to appreciate you for that. It was just kinda like she was thinking "But the way it works, it can't be like this, regardless of what I want." A conflict with what is expected of one, and what one wants.

And this all does make sense. Okada seems to put a premium on realism, which coincides with my thought of her plots tending to have very strong logical cohesion. So she won't force an ending that contradicts the rest of the narrative, like say Key. That also explains why these shows so often take those roundabout paths. So in any case, she does strike me as a rather intelligent person that is quite versed in the metagame and thus can fuck with said expectations (some may call this trolling; certainly not on someone like Uborochi's level, but yea). I had suspected as such, but the interview does help me solidify my conclusions.

Of course, the other hidden irony is that Hiromi seems to be quite the object of hate and trash talking on the internet. As for Okada herself, *stares at this thread*... ah fuck.

Anyhow, great interview.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Um, my mind is blown to take in all these so give me a few days.

...

Or she could be trolling.

In fact, I think it's probably that.

[Guardian Enzo]

The Hiromi-Noe divide bears some similarity to the Taichi-Arata split in Chihayafuru. It's not that Arata or Noe have more fans (in fact, Taichi finishes ahead of Arata in every popularity poll, while the ones I've seen for TT are pretty much even). The thing is that like Taichi fans with Arata, Hiromi fans tend to also think Noe is fine, where Arata and Noe fans tend to really hate on Taichi/Hiromi.

I don't know to what extent Okada is just having fun with all this self-analysis, but for my part I was rooting for Hiromi the whole way.

[cyth]

Makes me wonder why she made Shinichi choose Hiromi instead of the ideal she wanted, but couldn't be. Makes me a bit sad.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by cyth

Makes me wonder why she made Shinichi choose Hiromi instead of the ideal she wanted, but couldn't be. Makes me a bit sad.

This was discussed a few pages ago,in the very early scripts Noe was the one chosen but it was changed as other writers got involved

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[cyth]

Thanks for pointing it out. Damn ... Then again, I don't really mind, Shinichi was an ass.

[Archon_Wing]

Honestly, sometimes when a female character "wins" by that definition, I don't give a shit about that. Yes, romantic relationships are emotionally striking and very personal to someone-- and certainly can be an integral part to their happiness-- but some seem to make it as if it were the sole purpose of their existence. They're not fucking prizes, and they're not racehorses-- and in most of these anime, the guy is most certainly not a prize either. No wonder why she has disdain for harem leads (most). There is no "winning" in them.

A lot of my favorite female characters don't "win" so I might just be annoyed at these things but really, there's so much more to a character then them being a cog in the romance drama wheel.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Shippers don't really care about the destination but the result. Which is why I'm always in odds with them .

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

In my own attempts at writing, this has struck me as absolutely critical, frustrating as it can be. I might argue that Okada has slipped on this score at times, but at least she acknowledges the need to pursue the ideal.

That's why you have to think about the plot first, especially the ending. Once you have that figured out, you create characters who are perfectly suited for that story. That is, characters who will take it to the ending you have in mind.

Of course, along the way you may need to make adjustments and take detours, specially if you're dealing with characters who evolve, psychologically-wise. However, it's important to keep in mind that the ending is sacred. No matter how many detours you take in order to remind true to the characters, you have to be able to reach the ending you planed for since the beginning, because the main theme and premise of the story depend on that.



Anyway, that interview was very insightful. Okada seems like an interesting person, and sometime an interesting writer as well.