AnimeSuki Forums

momobunny · 2009-09-30, 17:45

This still leaves Kanon and Shannon's scene quite mysterious though... regardless of how many times the game repeated, or if Beato was exaggerating... Kanon and Shannon know something.

Ithekro · 2009-09-30, 17:52

Or could it be they expected something, rather than knew something. Like maybe the plan was for them to "die" first.

rogerpepitone · 2009-09-30, 18:36

Beatrice might skip over repeats that can not be adjusted to a useful episode.

For example, if piece-Battler walks in on the killer early, and gets killed off too early, or sees an important trick exposed, that repeat would give meta-Battler too much information.

Alternately, in one of the "meta-Beatrice is not evil" theories, Beatrice has a lesson in each episode. For episode 3, it might be along the lines of "One of the people on the island is betraying your trust. Much as it hurts, you will have to treat everyone as a suspect."

Jan-Poo · 2009-10-01, 00:19

I can't stomach the idea that Beatrice can manipulate Battler's memory. Metabattler is supposed to remember all the games he's been in. If Beatrice can conveniently erase a game and all the related memories as she see fit, then Battler doesn't have a chance to win.

Everyone agrees on the numerical orders of the games, even Bern and Lambda. I don't see enough reason to imagine a complicated system that only counts certain games and not all of them. There is no mention of this.

Imho what Kanon and Shannon said was simply because in ep1 Shannon died at the first twilight, in ep3 both died at the first twilight, in ep2 both survived (but Kanon died shortly after). In other words it is unusual for both of them to survive the first twilight.

rogerpepitone · 2009-10-01, 04:16

Out of 18 people, there are 153 pairs. (18*17/2). Of those pairs, 66 (12*11/2) will have both survive the first twilight. A random pair will have both survive 43% of the time. Having both survive in 2 games out of 4 is better than average. (Also, the fact that Kanon died at the second twilight in game 2 is irrelevant; Shannon only mentions the first twilight.)

(For example, in the shown games, Gohda/Natsuhi or Shannon/Eva never have both survive the first twilight.)

My interpretation was as follows:
1) Beatrice can watch over an entire 48-hour interval in advance.
2) (Possibly, she can choose not to use that interval for a game.)
3) If she does use that interval, then she starts a game against meta-Battler.

And she can block some memories; in episode 3, Battler only remembers the very end to his final converstation with Eva.

Jan-Poo · 2009-10-01, 07:15

I still think the easiest interpretation is that Shannon and Kanon sucks at math, I can't really see them making such calculations. Plus they aren't considering ep4, just the first 3.
Your looking too much into a casual discussion which isn't even supposed to be real, imho.

OBrasilo · 2009-10-01, 09:03

In Episode 1, Shannon dies in the First Twilight, Kanon doesn't. However, in Episode 2, only the siblings died in the First Twilight, so how is it un-usual for Shannon, and Kanon, to both survive the First Twilight? After all, it's about 50:50, they survived together in both Episode 2, and Episode 4, and the remaining two Episodes had either both of them die (Episode 3), or only Shannon die (Episode 1).

Leinne · 2009-10-01, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBrasilo

In Episode 1, Shannon dies in the First Twilight, Kanon doesn't. However, in Episode 2, only the siblings died in the First Twilight, so how is it un-usual for Shannon, and Kanon, to both survive the First Twilight? After all, it's about 50:50, they survived together in both Episode 2, and Episode 4, and the remaining two Episodes had either both of them die (Episode 3), or only Shannon die (Episode 1).

Ep4 is a bit messy and you can't ake into account who survived each twilight and who not. I mean, Genji could have not been killed in the first twilight and maybe had a fight with Jessica (which I highly doubt). Till the order is specified, we only know Kanon died the 9th, the first in Kyrie's group (we don't know the members though)

Vega Lyra · 2009-10-01, 14:20

So we know for sure that Kyrie died after Kanon, who died at the 9th twilight.

The 4th Episode is certainly the most obscure one; Battler was the entire time in the guesthouse. They could have all been running around until the moment Battler entered into the mansion and looked around.

Someone was yelling to Battler when he reached his 'exam' place. And for some reason, that person died after Battler went to retrieve some keys from the Chapel. We can be sure that Maria was in the mansion before Battler entered (most likely. anyways). And Maria left right after handing the phone to Battler in the guesthouse. I believe Battler entered the mansion the moment he arrived back from the chapel. So, did Maria die a quick death? I'd really like to know why she died.

Spoiler for Kumasawa and Gohda's deaths in the tool shed::

rogerpepitone · 2009-10-01, 14:51

Kanon was the 9th person to die (fourth twilight, seemingly), not the 9th twilight.

Spoiler for Kumasawa & Gohda in ep. 4:

Vega Lyra · 2009-10-01, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Kanon was the 9th person to die (fourth twilight, seemingly), not the 9th twilight.

Spoiler for Kumasawa & Gohda in ep. 4:

Ah, thanks for clearing the thing of Kanon up =).

Spoiler for K + G EP4:

Ithekro · 2009-10-01, 16:20

Such a rifle requires you to use the lever action to get a new bullet into the chamber to fire it again. But that takes about a second. The problem will be the reloading, since the guns given in the TIPS hold five bullets at the most and the bullets have to be feed into the magazine one at a time, like Maria was doing for her mother. However doing this will give you nine shots (since you can't load the fifth bullet until you have one in the chamber, and that will take time you don't have when one is on a killing spree.)

Marion · 2009-10-01, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Such a rifle requires you to use the lever action to get a new bullet into the chamber to fire it again. But that takes about a second. The problem will be the reloading, since the guns given in the TIPS hold five bullets at the most and the bullets have to be feed into the magazine one at a time, like Maria was doing for her mother. However doing this will give you nine shots (since you can't load the fifth bullet until you have one in the chamber, and that will take time you don't have when one is on a killing spree.)

If we take fantasy scenes to have some grains of truth you can say Rudolf and Kyrie are pretty skilled with lever action, replaying their gun duels from EP 3

rogerpepitone · 2009-10-01, 18:30

Reproduction of Mare's Leg

Ithekro · 2009-10-01, 18:46

Well for those of you that have little knowledge of how one of these guns in Umineko works...that video should give you some ideas. You have to load though that little slot on the right side of the gun...one bullet at a time, and you can only get the fifth one in after using the level action once to get the first bullet in the chamber and ready to fire.

Five shots max. Four in the magazine and one in the firing chamber.

Isekaijin · 2009-10-05, 02:02

Well... Having finished Ep4 just yesterday...today...nevermind. I've got a few questions and impressions to share. Please bear with me.

Spoiler for My thoughts:

-Loled with Virgilia in this Ep. So much for the allmighty Predecessor-sama. And what's with those loser flags?. "My goat little sister?" So is there a goat world where goats go to a goat high school, have goat sempais and marry their goat childhood friends? Then who is Virgilia? The "not a goat" headmistress of the goat school or the mackarel loving "not a goat" mayor of the goat town?
-ANGE's death really shocked me. Who was the moron who put that strange rule of "Nobody can know "Gretel" is actually Battler's little sister?" If it was Lambda, it pisses me even more that she can disobey her own rules. Brave sister till the end, she broke the stalemate of Battler and Beatrice.
-In Battler's test. Was it truly Beato the one who showed before him? Nowdays I'm less and less sure of her not existing in the game board. In Ep2 she showed herself to some people, and now she even appeared before Battler before her supposed "resurrection". Isn't Battler's POV the only thing we can trust besides the Red Truth?
-And for that matters. How is Beato perfectly well after Ep3. She supossedly gave her Endless magic to Eva. EVA-Beatrice still existed in the world of 1998. What's more weren't both denied by Beato's Red Truth? And that wasn't in the gameboard, that was in the Meta-world, so the damage was done to the "player" Beato, not the "piece" Beato, supposing there was one to begin with. Shouldn't that damage be "real?"
-The last showdown between Batter and Beatrice was a little one-sided. Yes he was enraged by ANGE's gruesome death. But some of his arguments were way too stupid. The "little bombs" in the food he used to explain the chapel murder in EP2 was too... unrealistic. And that doesn't explain the fact that the victims were filled with sweets. Unless is it something like "high tech sweets-teleporting miniaturized bomb that nobody can feel or taste until it's too late". Hell, even magic is easier to believe than that! And the fact that Beato didn't even try to answer that... just pisses me off.
-Battler's sin? That's very interesting. The fact that the "Ushiromiya Battler" Beato was fighting with was not the same "Ushiromiya Battler" she was expecting him to be. If you add this to the statement that a person's name doesn't neccesarily meant the one we know and the other fact that

Spoiler for Knox rules EP5:

there might be another Battler hidden in the island, and he would be the direct culprit of all the murders, since the existence of this "evil twin" would have counted as a warning. If you think in people as simply "names" the "there is no more than 17 people on this island" would fit, since both of the Battlers would count as one. Something like an "evil twin" then everything would fit. Even in the last showdown between Battler and Beato in the rose garden, with the red truths.
Ushiromiya Battler. I will now... kill you.
And right now, there is no one other than you (two) on this island.
The only one alive on this island is you(two).
Nothing outside the island can interfere.
You (two) are all alone on this island.
And of course, I am not you.
Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.
If everyone were confirmed dead, that would be the only thing I could admit, besides the existence of true magic.
-The idea of Beato having a reason to torture Battler never crossed my mind. I thought she was the bad one here.
-This EP broke the pure and sweet image of Bernkastel that I had in Higurashi and in EP2 when she said "Fight-oh Mii Nipah" And about Lambda... well. Hate both of them now. I even started to see Beato as a victim, rather than a murderer. Please someone assure me in red that this Bernkastel has nothing to do with Rika-chan of Higurashi, or I might start losing it. Even I'm starting to think that a kakera where Higurashi's events are eternally repeated with no chance of victory might be good for that... witch. And as for Lambdadelta... don't even ask.
-Ah, and Ronove was faabulous as always. Didn't like Gaap for some reason. Liked the new Siesta 00 though.

I'm new in this "Witch Hunting" so please bear with my twisted logic.

Ithekro · 2009-10-05, 02:16

Berkastel is not Rika.

But Berkastel might have come from Rika.

luckyssol · 2009-10-05, 02:56

Quote: