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Old 2009-03-24, 20:14   Link #14181
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by otai View Post
That's mostly human interpretation subtext. It's actually a pretty direct warning from a protection program; mess the scenario up and I'll kill you. I'm pretty sure Ryo had been fighting off Kimidori, Kuyoh or whatever that has been trying to investigate the sudden use of Harupowers.
Eh? What?

The Yukiverse Ryoko was designed by Yuki to stop Kyon (and anyone else, whoever they might be) from destroying her "perfect world", I thought.

Kimidori (and all other interfaces) was also overwritten and Kuyoh didn't even exist yet.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:16   Link #14182
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First place I've seen "bromance" used.

This is sort of debate is why I brought it up...that and similar problems will need addressing of one is to genderbend volume 4....or the Valentine's Day parts of Volume 7...or Haruhi-chan episodes. (chocolate Mitsuuru?)
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:19   Link #14183
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Yukiverse Ryoko was programmed to protect Yuki. Kyon was holding a gun, after all.

And Haruhi-chan isn't getting a GB.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:23   Link #14184
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
(chocolate Mitsuuru?)
If we ever do genderbend Haruhi-chan, that stays in.

Haruki: "Everyone will want to lick it!"

Mitsuuru: "But--"

Haruki: "EVERYONE."

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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Yukiverse Ryoko was programmed to protect Yuki. Kyon was holding a gun, after all.
Right, I remember now.

Yeah, that sets off definite yuri flags, right there.

And, of course, NO EXCEPTIONS.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:32   Link #14185
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Eh? What?

The Yukiverse Ryoko was designed by Yuki to stop Kyon (and anyone else, whoever they might be) from destroying her "perfect world", I thought.

Kimidori (and all other interfaces) was also overwritten and Kuyoh didn't even exist yet.
But can she rewrite the IDE? Imagine Ryoko as a firewall against possible intrusions from her former boss. Then, due to jealousy, she oversteps her bounds by interpreting her duty to include Kyon; who actually has authority to stop the program. Kinda like your windows firewall fucking up your net games.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:36   Link #14186
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Originally Posted by otai View Post
But can she rewrite the IDE? Imagine Ryoko as a firewall against possible intrusions from her former boss. Then, due to jealousy, she oversteps her bounds by interpreting her duty to include Kyon; who actually has authority to stop the program. Kinda like your windows firewall fucking up your net games.
Yuki rewrote the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. She had the Harupowers. She can do that. That's actually a plot point, as I recall Kyon threatening to have Haruhi rewrite them too.

That entire thing with "gathering all the parts" was her failsafe if Kyon didn't like the "perfect" universe she'd given him.

I don't know whether she forgot about Ryoko or changed her mind after giving Kyon that escape route.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:44   Link #14187
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Yuki is not perfect. She "forgot" to regenerate her glasses is one example. Human emotions seem to cause instabilities over long periods of time (Endless Eight) that can result in the shift of Univeral Constants (Book 4). Her forgetting about Ryoko might not have been a forget, but an alternate defense system. Past Yuki and even farther future Yuki might not have known about that system due to their sync problem. It also depends on just when Yuki wrote Kyon the escape note...since I don't recall that being clear.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:48   Link #14188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yuki rewrote the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. She had the Harupowers. She can do that. That's actually a plot point, as I recall Kyon threatening to have Haruhi rewrite them too.

That entire thing with "gathering all the parts" was her failsafe if Kyon didn't like the "perfect" universe she'd given him.

I don't know whether she forgot about Ryoko or changed her mind after giving Kyon that escape route.
The story is deliberately unclear about the limits of the Harupowers. It lets us ponder whether Haruhi actually created the weirdness, or just gathered them. The "I am John Smith" threat does not necessarily mean the IDEs destruction; they may be just as afraid of having failed their objective, i.e. evolving themselves by observing Haruhi.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:50   Link #14189
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Yuki is not perfect. She "forgot" to regenerate her glasses is one example. Human emotions seem to cause instabilities over long periods of time (Endless Eight) that can result in the shift of Univeral Constants (Book 4). Her forgetting about Ryoko might not have been a forget, but an alternate defense system. Past Yuki and even farther future Yuki might not have known about that system due to their sync problem. It also depends on just when Yuki wrote Kyon the escape note...since I don't recall that being clear.
Since Yuki knew she was going to go out of control, she might have set up the escape route long in advance, yeah.

Of course, that's trying to trick your future self, but yeah, that works. Good idea.
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Old 2009-03-24, 20:51   Link #14190
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Aside from Ryoko trying to kill him when he was taken to reverse the changes, the entire thing happened as a direct result of Kyon telling her it happened. Due to Future Mikuru's presence, Yuki knew that he would succeed in reverting things, and thus never really considered the possibility that Ryoko would try to kill him.

But then this results in the problem that the majority of the book never should have happened, and this is when I start getting a headache.
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Old 2009-03-24, 21:00   Link #14191
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Aside from Ryoko trying to kill him when he was taken to reverse the changes, the entire thing happened as a direct result of Kyon telling her it happened. Due to Future Mikuru's presence, Yuki knew that he would succeed in reverting things, and thus never really considered the possibility that Ryoko would try to kill him.
A bit OT, but just like to mention:

Just because Yuki knows the future does not mean she's capable of changing it.

She knew all along she was going to lose it and try to change the world for her own benefit.

What's scarier? Going crazy or knowing exactly when you're going to go crazy and being unable to do anything about it?

It's the sort of thing that would drive a person crazy.

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But then this results in the problem that the majority of the book never should have happened, and this is when I start getting a headache.
"I hate time travel", huh? Even closed loops can get pretty friggin' confusing.
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Old 2009-03-24, 21:22   Link #14192
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I generally like time travel stories. Hell, I still think Chrono Trigger is the best damn RPG ever made. Disappearance just has so many things about its ending that don't make any sense at all.
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Old 2009-03-24, 21:37   Link #14193
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
I generally like time travel stories. Hell, I still think Chrono Trigger is the best damn RPG ever made. Disappearance just has so many things about its ending that don't make any sense at all.
If you REALLY think about it, Chrono Trigger, due to "open" time loops and the ability to affect the past/future, makes even less sense than Disappearance does.

And Disappearance's confusing ending is why the prologue of Intrigues was made, heh.

Also, never read Bob and George?
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Old 2009-03-24, 21:55   Link #14194
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
If you REALLY think about it, Chrono Trigger, due to "open" time loops and the ability to affect the past/future, makes even less sense than Disappearance does.
While I enjoy the series, I am definitely not the person to try and defend and/or explain anything regarding it, so I'm not even going to attempt it.

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And Disappearance's confusing ending is why the prologue of Intrigues was made, heh.
Except it didn't explain the confusing parts, and ultimately made me wonder what the hell happened with the Kyon that was still sleeping at the time.

Quote:
Also, never read Bob and George?
Yes I have. I figured you might've been attempting to make a reference, but it's hard to tell with a phrase that explains most people's feelings about the subject.
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Old 2009-03-24, 22:41   Link #14195
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I cannot comprehend why anyone heterosexual would like to replace a perfectly good Vagina with a penis...
Well, they don't necessarily completely replace the vagina with a penis. Sometimes the vagina is still there. Which can lead to weird situations. Still, it gets weirder when you have a futa girl with a guy and the guy is on the bottom.

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Originally Posted by wittyusername View Post
The whole idea of futa just scares the crap out of me. Also, I find it sort of entertaining that vagina is capitalized, as if to show that 2D girls with vaginas are ultimately more superior than dickgirls.
My main objection is how unnatural it seems. Yeah, I know that's ironic, coming from me.
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Old 2009-03-24, 22:42   Link #14196
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
For the latter, I just plan to have him run away.

Dunno about the former though.
He could get really embarrassed because of how close Kyonko gets to him?
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Originally Posted by otai View Post
The story is deliberately unclear about the limits of the Harupowers. It lets us ponder whether Haruhi actually created the weirdness, or just gathered them.
Haruhi can violate the laws of conservation of mass/energy. She has the potential to create something from nothing and to permanently erase something from the universe.

When you can do this, there are no limits that a mortal mind can comprehend.
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Originally Posted by otai View Post
The "I am John Smith" threat does not necessarily mean the IDEs destruction; they may be just as afraid of having failed their objective, i.e. evolving themselves by observing Haruhi.
It's a genuine threat. Haruhi definitely recognizes Kyon as being similiar to John Smith. The disappearance arc tells us that Kyon could convince her of the connection very easily. Once Kyon does that, Haruhi is suddenly gets very responsive to whatever else he has to say.

Haruhi is also very defensive of the people she's now come to know as her friends. She'd be perfectly willing to do something unpleasant to the IDE.
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Old 2009-03-24, 23:17   Link #14197
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
He could get really embarrassed because of how close Kyonko gets to him?
Works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Haruhi can violate the laws of conservation of mass/energy. She has the potential to create something from nothing and to permanently erase something from the universe.

When you can do this, there are no limits that a mortal mind can comprehend.
This, yeah.

Lot of people seem to forget that Haruhi is GOD.

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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Except it didn't explain the confusing parts, and ultimately made me wonder what the hell happened with the Kyon that was still sleeping at the time.
LOL TIME TRAVEL

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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Yes I have. I figured you might've been attempting to make a reference, but it's hard to tell with a phrase that explains most people's feelings about the subject.
Ah, that makes sense.
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Old 2009-03-24, 23:23   Link #14198
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Haruhi can violate the laws of conservation of mass/energy. She has the potential to create something from nothing and to permanently erase something from the universe.

When you can do this, there are no limits that a mortal mind can comprehend.

It's a genuine threat. Haruhi definitely recognizes Kyon as being similiar to John Smith. The disappearance arc tells us that Kyon could convince her of the connection very easily. Once Kyon does that, Haruhi is suddenly gets very responsive to whatever else he has to say.

Haruhi is also very defensive of the people she's now come to know as her friends. She'd be perfectly willing to do something unpleasant to the IDE.
Then we fall into the Haruhi = God idea. It'll be easy to wish something away just by narrative; no need to understand the exact nature of your actions.

Yuki, in Vol. 4, sure she could destroy the IDE, since she knows what exactly she's deleting. But the idea is that she created Ryoko as her enforcer, because there could be remnants of the IDE, time travellers or whatever supernatural that would distrupt her plans.

The time travellers at least exist by necessity, since Mikuru has to be there; Mikuru was probably brainwashed and the future simply cut off with a Time Quake.
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Old 2009-03-24, 23:31   Link #14199
Tyabann
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Then we fall into the Haruhi = God idea. It'll be easy to wish something away just by narrative; no need to understand the exact nature of your actions.
Uh. What?

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Originally Posted by otai View Post
Yuki, in Vol. 4, sure she could destroy the IDE, since she knows what exactly she's deleting. But the idea is that she created Ryoko as her enforcer, because there could be remnants of the IDE, time travellers or whatever supernatural that would distrupt her plans.
I'd think the only people who could stop her are the time travelers, and Kyon.

And Ryoko was perfectly placed to stop Kyon, since she sits behind him.

The IDE was dead in that universe.

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The time travellers at least exist by necessity, since Mikuru has to be there; Mikuru was probably brainwashed and the future simply cut off with a Time Quake.
Uh. What.

No, Yuki rewrote the universe. That is what the Harupowers DO.
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Old 2009-03-24, 23:50   Link #14200
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
A bit OT, but just like to mention:

Just because Yuki knows the future does not mean she's capable of changing it.

She knew all along she was going to lose it and try to change the world for her own benefit.

What's scarier? Going crazy or knowing exactly when you're going to go crazy and being unable to do anything about it?

It's the sort of thing that would drive a person crazy.
Would that be before or after Endless Eight?



And welcome back, Kai...
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