(L) Girls und Panzer Movie

[Hypernova]

And so the movie's gross passes 2.2 billion:
https://twitter.com/garupan/status/739751843627032578

They also extended showing the 4DX version in Taiwan by another 2 days, can't make it since they are not late enough after work, but I got what I needed on the Sunday showing:

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Julio C

I avoided this forum for a while so I can watch the movie without knowing anything about it.

All I can say was, that it was GLORIOUS!

The whole movie was mostly non-stop action with a breather here and there. The main battle was just awesome and very long. It was so awesome to see the sisters team up to take out Alice. That was some elite team they fought, but Miho formed her own elite team as well.

This was the first time we actual see the Churchill tank get taken out.

I was hoping to see the Maus again to take out that super tank.

That artillery tank was a monster! I was surprised they allowed that, and even more surprised that no one was burn to a crisp.

The 5.1 track was demo worthy. It was loud and powerful. It feels like you were in the middle of the action. The sound effects were very clear and crisp. Vocals were clean too.

GuP has become one of my top 10 animes of all time now!

My feelings as well.

The movie really lives up to the hype. From the very beginning, you can't wait to see what comes next. It's also nice to see how former rivals all standing up to support Ooarai's team.

I would have loved to see the Maus back, but I guess it would have been a sitting duck when one knows what's lying ahead.

I also wondered how the MEXT allowed the Karl-Gerät to be used in battle. That was going as far as to unleash tigers in the middle of a gladiator match. In any case, I can give plenty of thumbs up to the creating team for coming up with the most spectacular way to take down such monster.

I really enjoyed the way the relation between Miho and Maho was explored. I can only imagine what kind of power duo they would be if they played on the same team more often.

[Ithekro]

I wonder if Karl is normally legal at the university level or the world tournament rules?

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I also wondered how the MEXT allowed the Karl-Gerät to be used in battle.

Though the writer's intent was probably to make MEXT look bad with this, a more careful evaluation of gains and losses will suggest MEXT was pressured to both change the match to elimination and to permit the Karl-Gerat.

Because morality aside, they have actually handled the closing beautifully. They managed to make the coverage in media limited (so it is in Senshado web news rather than CNN), and framed that debate to be about closing a school rather than the more serious issue at stake - that they've just force-transferred 30,000 people in one night from their homes. They've used controversy of something that can almost be considered a business decision to cover up a crime against humanity that no mere national law can legitimize, even in a legal sense.

Japanese fans have condemned Tsuji for allowing public condemnation, but this is an even finer play than complete media blackout. In letting them play it in some way, it is now a processed deal, not a hidden scandal that will blow in MEXT's face in the far off future. We didn't hide anything - you media just chose to treat it as small fry.

Next, Tsuji tricks Anzu into proposing (for the second time) a deal that's very favorable for MEXT. The camera tries to make it look as if Tsuji is pressured, and I snark, because this is a good thing for him. Basically, he has just gotten a nolo contendere for everything he's done, and consent for Oarai to immediately disband if they lose. Since sadly no one will drag Tsuji to the ICJ, only Japan's domestic laws really count here and as far as those are concerned, he and MEXT are on legal terra firma again.

So, you have to ask yourself, whether it is really worth it to MEXT and Tsuji to put themselves again in legal jeopardy by weakening the consent (their strongest card now) in exchange for a small increase in win chance?

Who has nothing to lose and everything to gain? Chiyo Shimada.

So, when I see Tsuji going in that night and suggesting they might quit, I see him trying to extract something akin to a new consent to the new conditions to try and patch his ministry's legal position.

And when I see Tsuji defending the Karl-Gerat, what he's doing is preventing the match from being stopped and UST from being insta-disqualified. In this, he is the real MVP for UST.

Meanwhile, Shimada-ryu's reputation is sinking into a black hole that many used to reserve for Shiho Nishizumi.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I wonder if Karl is normally legal at the university level or the world tournament rules?

Given what they are trying to paint Alice Shimada as, I'll actually prefer it if they forsook that last bit of DO-RA-MA and just settled for that. But der Film makes it abundantly clear that it is not something that should ever have been allowed, by anyone.

Not that even if the Karl itself could be legalized, it'll justify the high performance autoloader or the other little things they added to it (the parts are not supposed to exceed 1945 performance). And the accuracy ... ugh.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I wonder if Karl is normally legal at the university level or the world tournament rules?

That is an area where I would like to see more. Since the rules of the pro leagues and world tournament are partially mentioned, I would like to know what are the boundaries of what can or cannot be used on the battlefield.

In any case, my personal definition of a tank wouldn't include that monster. Like I said, it's kinda like sending tigers in the middle of a gladiator match.

[inisipis]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I wonder if Karl is normally legal at the university level or the world tournament rules?

Since the Big bald guy stated that the Karl was hurriedly approved by the Ministry in time for the match, means that it's never been used before in other tournaments. Adding that the Bald guy questioned how a super large open-top cannon be classified as a tank, with the glasses guy giving a snarky answer, leaves an impression that such legalities are somewhat 'fixed' for the match.

[arkhangelsk]

Actually, the fact Tsuji (glasses) decides to show up allows us to localize Karl-Gerat's severity and clarity of illegality to a high degree of probability. He's busy and he already knows or suspect most of JSF's sympathies are with Oarai. Without a good reason, showing his ugly mug would be detrimental to his cause.

But he has to be there, to carry the administrative act (approvals are a form of administrative act) through. The prevailing Japanese legal theory concerning administrative acts are as follows (Germany has similar principles, but only Japanese see fit to give this stuff a name - 公定力):

1. Even if an act is illegal or improper, in the interests of public order it shall be provisionally deemed to have force, until it is rescinded by the same executive body, designated superior executive bodies or the judiciary. Thus bald guy, in an inferior position, cannot countermand this act.
2. The above does not apply if the act is manifestly illegal and continuing to obey it will have serious consequences. In that case, it is to be treated as void ab initio.

Thus, if Tsuji (who studied all this stuff) believes the Karl approval is either legit or illegit but not manifestly so, he shouldn't show up. However, if he believes it is manifestly illegit, he must show up. Because if the chairman (baldie) decides it is manifestly illegal, since the stakes in this match are so high, the severity clause will automaticaly flood, and he can go ahead and affirm it is void ab initio. Without the protective force of the administrative act, UST just fired an illegal weapon, period. Needless to say, they will be disqualified.

So, Tsuji, as a "third-party" (not exactly the same body that handed down the permission) says what you call the snark, to declare he is in doubt as to the manifest illegality.

[Peanutbutter]

I think a more interesting question to ask is: Didn't anyone in Ooarai check the list of 30 tanks on the university side? Just a quick look through will do.

(Unless they switched a tank after the match began.)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Epic tank battles, Epic OST and Epic sound effects and mixing makes this one the ultimate crowd pleaser of those who already follow GuP from the TV & OVAs. In fact, I want to stress about the OST again: the music composition are so good that I prefer this one compared to what I heard from Macross Delta so far. This OST is pretty much up there with Gundam IBO's OST as parts of my favorite anime OST in recent year.

All in all GuP der Film is just tons of fun and so very effective in its storytelling that it waste almost no time even if the story is nothing complex or sophisticated. Whatever scenes that made it into the final cut of the movie (even down to some antics) are there to push the narrative forward, explore the characters and build up the action. The way this film juggles so many characters this well is nothing short of admirable (its pretty much GuP Avenger or Civil War! ). This kind of efficiency in storytelling and "macho-action" is something that I didn't really get from other "cute girls doing military thing"-series like Strike Witches, Kancolle or Haifuri. Also, the lack of in-your-face fanservice (at least in the TV series and this movie) always put GuP on another respectable level compared to its peers.

And of course, GuP has something I like that other moe-military series rarely have, namely...

Spoiler:

THE TANK-DRIFTING!!!!

YouTube

https://youtu.be/GY30Qc8YeiI

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

I think a more interesting question to ask is: Didn't anyone in Ooarai check the list of 30 tanks on the university side? Just a quick look through will do.

(Unless they switched a tank after the match began.)

It seems that they either can't or are not suppose to look up what their enemy has, since Yukari went on spy missions against Saunders and Anzio to find out what they had, and in the finals they didn't know about the Maus until it rolled out of the alley way in front of them.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

It seems that they either can't or are not suppose to look up what their enemy has, since Yukari went on spy missions against Saunders and Anzio to find out what they had, and in the finals they didn't know about the Maus until it rolled out of the alley way in front of them.

This is actually an interesting question as to exactly what happened there, because in the Japanese Internet had long circulated this:

戦車道連盟2条-01項に
　　「競技者、参加戦車、フラッグ車を記したメンバー表を正副2通48時間前に連盟に提出、
　　副メンバー票を相手チームに渡すものとする」

Which basically says that you have to submit lists of competitors, tanks and the flag vehicle 48 hours b/f the match, with the copy handed to the opponents.

It has to be said that it is not clear what, or if, there is primary documentation for this, but with all the magazines and other little places such information gets to hide you never know, and it is consistent with some scenes where for example Anzio clearly handed over data (it's even in Italian).

Further, Tsuji did complain about the last minute sudden addition of members to Oarai being a rule violation, which will also be consistent with the presence of such a rule. If Alice is simply supposed to know nothing about the composition, then the sudden addition of members is not disbeneficial.

It will also give yet more reasons as to why Alice immediately nodded - because if that had turned into a scuffle, for one thing having done the same thing herself with the Karl-Gerat (and apparently the T28 too) she's in a weak position to complain, and it would possibly reveal the weapon before the fight started which would eliminate its surprise factor.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Which basically says that you have to submit lists of competitors, tanks and the flag vehicle 48 hours b/f the match, with the copy handed to the opponents.

It has to be said that it is not clear what, or if, there is primary documentation for this, but with all the magazines and other little places such information gets to hide you never know, and it is consistent with some scenes where for example Anzio clearly handed over data (it's even in Italian).

Since we have seen surprise tanks used a number of times with no one crying foul you may just have to list the number of tanks and nothing else about them.

[c933103]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

This is actually an interesting question as to exactly what happened there, because in the Japanese Internet had long circulated this:



Which basically says that you have to submit lists of competitors, tanks and the flag vehicle 48 hours b/f the match, with the copy handed to the opponents.

It has to be said that it is not clear what, or if, there is primary documentation for this, but with all the magazines and other little places such information gets to hide you never know, and it is consistent with some scenes where for example Anzio clearly handed over data (it's even in Italian).

Further, Tsuji did complain about the last minute sudden addition of members to Oarai being a rule violation, which will also be consistent with the presence of such a rule. If Alice is simply supposed to know nothing about the composition, then the sudden addition of members is not disbeneficial.

It will also give yet more reasons as to why Alice immediately nodded - because if that had turned into a scuffle, for one thing having done the same thing herself with the Karl-Gerat (and apparently the T28 too) she's in a weak position to complain, and it would possibly reveal the weapon before the fight started which would eliminate its surprise factor.

It's from http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/...0df8eb6d35.jpg the ooarai student handbook

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by c933103

It's from http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/...0df8eb6d35.jpg the ooarai student handbook

Good find, thanks. Thanks to your vector, I've been able to find a prettier version that's actually legible..

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Since we have seen surprise tanks used a number of times with no one crying foul you may just have to list the number of tanks and nothing else about them.

You must remind me when those are then, because even with the Maus there's no particular reason to insist Miho never even knew it was there rather than just not quite expecting it there.

[Julio C]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

All in all GuP der Film is just tons of fun and so very effective in its storytelling that it waste almost no time even if the story is nothing complex or sophisticated. Whatever scenes that made it into the final cut of the movie (even down to some antics) are there to push the narrative forward, explore the characters and build up the action. The way this film juggles so many characters this well is nothing short of admirable (its pretty much GuP Avenger or Civil War! ). This kind of efficiency in storytelling and "macho-action" is something that I didn't really get from other "cute girls doing military thing"-series like Strike Witches, Kancolle or Haifuri. Also, the lack of in-your-face fanservice (at least in the TV series and this movie) always put GuP on another respectable level compared to its peers.

And of course, GuP has something I like that other moe-military series rarely have, namely...

Spoiler:

THE TANK-DRIFTING!!!!

YouTube

https://youtu.be/GY30Qc8YeiI

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Well said on the fanservice. I like to add that the lack of fanservice really makes the show stand out a lot more, and it comes to show you that it is not needed to attract more viewers or add anything at all. I can understand about having fanservice in the OVAs, and you can easily picture how much different the show would have been if it went on that route. It's like watching a completely different show where there is little to no tank battles at all. If the show would have been like that, it would have long been forgotten deep into the abyss.

[YF19EX]

The lack of conventional fanservice in this series is what I feel sets it appart from those "other series". In many ways, it allows more focus on the characters, setting and more importantly the tanks, battles and sound effects. Running this movie though my Bose sound system turned up felt like being down range or right in the thick of the action, sound of the engines, canon fire and ricochets all round. I think the sound effect team really takes the cake in the GuP series.

Another thing, that sets GuP apart is its tongue and cheek approach to sports and war. Although Miho faces the real possibility of losing her home both times, the lack of any physical danger but serious approach to senshadou feels more balanced than when the world is really in danger, or when people end up dying. When not being played out on a life and death stage its allows the characters to have fun and enjoy the world around them.

[CptChaos]

I already liked the TV series, but the movie is on a whole different level.

I only wish there was a better build up for Alice as the brilliant antagonist. The final confrontation felt less intense than the one in the series, but that's also partly because the confrontation between the two sisters was hard to top.

I have a question regarding the Centurion. Is it really that superior? Or was it more thanks the skills of Alice? I mean she decimated at least 1/3 of Miho's team all by herself.

[Nachtwandler]

And I'm still hoping for as better translation...

[skaianDestiny]

Originally Posted by CptChaos

I have a question regarding the Centurion. Is it really that superior? Or was it more thanks the skills of Alice? I mean she decimated at least 1/3 of Miho's team all by herself.

A little bit of both. The Centurion was essentially the proto-MBT, and it basically revolutionized tank design. However, her driver was also extremely skilled since she was able to pull off all those maneuvers.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by CptChaos

I only wish there was a better build up for Alice as the brilliant antagonist. The final confrontation felt less intense than the one in the series, but that's also partly because the confrontation between the two sisters was hard to top.

I wish they had decided whether they want Alice to be an antagonist or a deuteragonist like the other captains. Essentially, they started her off as a deuteragonist, then made her the antagonist and yet insisted on giving her a deuteragonist ending.

I have a question regarding the Centurion. Is it really that superior?

Actually, they cheated with the Centurion, and not in the "painting slightly outside the lines" sense (they always do that, we know and we love it).

Tanks with the Merritt-Brown steering system are just about the worst tanks for super-maneuverability. Tanks with clutch and brake steering, tanks with two engines which you can send one full forward the other full reverse are great - the makers chose well there. Somewhat behind will be the tanks with at least some kind of auxiliary skid system.

The Merritt Brown, however has 5 fixed turn radiuses based on gear selected using steering brakes and the main service brakes are accessed with a single pedal. The neutral turn system is explained to be an auxiliary system in the manual - it is there for pivoting and if for any reason you can't use the main system in motion. Understanding it, you'll realize it is telling you to not expect any turns you won't get with the regular steering system.

I cannot believe the makers in their research never found this out so what they did was ignore the limitation - hoping that no one will really notice because British tanks are not that popular.

However, what that means is that Alice was driving a very heavily modified tank. This actually reduces her capability coefficient because a good commander works and creates miracles while living with limitations. Having extra abilities just given to her eliminates that potential point-gaining zone. The driver also gets some points for retaining control with the modified system but now she's merely competent because the "scope" of the system itself has increased.

It also takes away yet more points from Alice's character because the modification (greatly increasing the speed differential producible by the neutral-steering system) will also overload the tank (gee ... why didn't they do this with service tanks). And you get a whole new understanding as to why Alice "sat out" most of the match - her modified tank is now very delicate. To make herself look better, she chose a tank in which she can't help her subordinates with for the most of the match. Hmm...

However, because none of this is actually depicted, it increases one's feelings of injustice. Remember how when Leopon modified their tank, reality caught up with them very quickly (they got the extra speed, but their engine blew out)? That's the gravity of reality. And seeing Alice getting off with her modification, which no one was even willing to admit existed and thus obviously no price was visibly paid, makes it feel like even the makers were on Alice's side.

If you play War Thunder, maybe an analogy would be someone using a mod that allows them to use Arcade physics in Realistic/Simulator Battles. You would think that's pretty unfair, would you? And the makers let Alice do that.

Or was it more thanks the skills of Alice? I mean she decimated at least 1/3 of Miho's team all by herself.

Frankly, I wasn't very impressed by those ten kills - they really looked better when all I can see was that famous summary strip. The best of them were the scene where she dealt with the Chi-Has, but the truth of the matter was that she was ambushed and "fortunately" Chi-Ha Tan was weak, attacked where they shouldn't have and didn't even choose an optimal attack. Not a lot of range, but driver and gunner cooperated well to save Alice from her own mistakes.

She then kills Rabbit Team ... she shows up immediately so you know the range was perhaps 10-20m and it was straight line, so neither her driver nor her gunner got special points there. In fact, the scene actually suggests something negative about Alice's character as well because given the lay of the land, it was unlikely that was the first shot opportunity. Yet Alice chose to continue to position until she was sure of a kill rather than at least try to distract Rabbit Team from destroying her Chaffees by firing at the first shot opportunity. Sure, it'll be less pretty if Alice had to fire several times before she got them, but Alice'll have saved at least one Chaffee (it might JUST have come in handy after Alice lost her tank, and if she saves one Chaffee, the CV33 will go too, and in turn should allow the saving of one Pershing which would also come in handy).

The huntdown for Turtle and Chi-Nu are next, and you realize that in fact, Alice didn't even manage to get to her first kill undetected this time (Chi-Nu's turret is already pointing backwards) - so much for Ninja tactics and again the kill ranges are so low, the movement so straight line.

The final set was the CV33 (which only had itself to blame ... it should not have abandoned its observation position altogether and deprived her own team of information) and the B1bis. More straight line, point blank action (again, no points for driver and gunner).