Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Steins;Gate 0, Episode 12.

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[Klashikari]

Well... Recursive Mother Goose wasn't exactly interesting in the VN to begin with, so I can't blame them using it as a filler considering it is still some development for Kagari.

For those who are confused about the flashbacks

Spoiler for Recursive Mother Goose:

Although it isn't explicitely mentioned in the anime, that scene with Kagari meeting young Okarin happened on 30th June 2005, which is around the period when Mayuri's grandmother passed away.

As you might have guessed, the song origin is quite murky, which is actually some kind of closed time loop, similar to the lab member badge in the original SG.

As for Kagari, she actually knew she could meet Mayuri in that era, but realized it would be pointless considering the huge difference of era. In the end, she just roamed around aimlessly, met Okarin, then got taken back to the facility where she was held captive.

[HtwoN]

Yeah, this is kind of a filler episode. I don't care about Kagari that much.

[Ruki0089]

Right now...I have no idea and my knowledge of VN... completely useless...

[Kanon]

I thought they were going for a closed loop with the song, with Mayuri learning about it from Suzuha who learned about it from Mayuri, however they started adding Yuki, Okabe's mom, and Okabe himself into the mix and I didn't know anymore, only to reveal it indeed was a closed loop since Okabe learned about it from Kagari. Talk about needlessly complicating things

It was nice to see Kagari get some development, but that was a pretty boring episode overall. I like the heavy focus on Mayuri though.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I thought they were going for a closed loop with the song, with Mayuri learning about it from Suzuha who learned about it from Mayuri, however they started adding Yuki, Okabe's mom, and Okabe himself into the mix and I didn't know anymore, only to reveal it indeed was a closed loop since Okabe learned about it from Kagari. Talk about needlessly complicating things

It was nice to see Kagari get some development, but that was a pretty boring episode overall. I like the heavy focus on Mayuri though.

Yeah or a paradox, seems we will be on a low moment till the story start to put the pedal on gas again

[AC-Phoenix]

Two things I realized in this episode:

a) Kagari looks older than Okabe when they meet in the past - Could mean she too has a time machine.

b) Ironically, in the Beta line he seems to meet Kagari at the exact same point in time as he met Kurisu in the Alpha and Gamma lines.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Two things I realized in this episode:

a) Kagari looks older than Okabe when they meet in the past - Could mean she too has a time machine.

b) Ironically, in the Beta line he seems to meet Kagari at the exact same point in time as he met Kurisu in the Alpha and Gamma lines.

If we take the movie into account, it's really interesting.

Beta is the "original" timeline. So originally, Okabe met Kagari. But Kagari doesn't exist (or doesn't travel to the past) in the S;G world line, so Kurisu needs to take that spot.

Blown my mind lol.

[Klashikari]

a) Kagari arrived with Suzuha in 1998 when she was 10 years old. And this is 2005, so she is 17 years old, so no surprise she is actually older than Okarin.

b) That's not possible. Okarin never met Kurisu in the alpha line prior their initial meeting in the radio kaikan. Also, the gamma lines are extremely peculiar and were never shown in the anime or the VN.

[4th Dimension]

TBH, this wasn't the most intriguing episode, but it was CONSIDERABLY more entertaining than the last one. While the whole mysery of the song was kinda inconsequential at first, it was at least some goal I felt they could figure out, and they did. And the goal in the process told me new things about the situation.
To me Kagari seems like some sort of attempt to replicate Kiritsu or something. Especially given her reaction to classical music, presumably Mozart. And given Okabe met her back then, that he doesn't remember meeting her despite picking up the song, and post credit scene revealing that people were following her back then, at least adds mysteries I feel the cast can solve to figure out the situation.
Plus it had some funny moments and like.

Also I wonder if the "new" ED is here to stay, or is it for just this episode? Kinda looks plain for the second part ED.

[MCAL]

The scene between Okabe and his mom was just as hilarious as the VN. Other than that a decent episode. Actually thought it was much better than the VN

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Also I wonder if the "new" ED is here to stay, or is it for just this episode? Kinda looks plain for the second part ED.

It was just for this episode. It was one of the ending songs from the VN. Although only Han Megumi sung it in the VN while she and Hanazawa Kana sing it in the anime.

[GDB]

Thought it was Professor Reyes on the phone for a minute, to be honest. Really glad it wasn't, because at that point it'd feel like they were just trying to get as many characters involved in each others' pasts as possible.

[Wandering Soul]

I've heard from people that finished the VN that Kagari is responsible for the worst parts of the story and while I can't say anything about that, so far she's responsible for the most boring episode.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

I've heard from people that finished the VN that Kagari is responsible for the worst parts of the story.

You are lucky that the anime scratched that part already.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I thought they were going for a closed loop with the song, with Mayuri learning about it from Suzuha who learned about it from Mayuri, however they started adding Yuki, Okabe's mom, and Okabe himself into the mix and I didn't know anymore, only to reveal it indeed was a closed loop since Okabe learned about it from Kagari. Talk about needlessly complicating things.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nNzNo_Xps

[GDB]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nNzNo_Xps

I feel like this warrants a Bootstrap Paradox explanation from Capaldi instead.

[Jan-Poo]

It's funny how many names this paradox has been given: "closed time loop" "bootstrap paradox"... If you type those on wikipedia you get redirected to Causal loop

There's also "free lunch paradox" and "ontological paradox" that are essentially the same thing.

Anyway what I find strange about this whole deal is how the song got deeply stuck in the head of everyone that listened to it, so much that it became the key to recover from amnesia in Kagari's case, and yet the only one that doesn't remember it at all is Rintaro.

Usually he is the one that remember stuff while no one else does. It's quite ironic.


Well I could think of a possible explanation to solve all of this, though it's probably not true, but I'll expose it anyway.

Basically imagine that the origin of the song is indeed Rintaro, that's something he came up with to cheer up Mayuri. However Kagari goes back in the past and meets Rintaro and sings him the song before he could compose it, this creates a completely new timeline.

Now since Rintaro possesses the Reading Steiner ability he finds himself with two conflicting memories "I created this song" and "I learned this song from a mysterious girl", his young mind simply can't handle the contradiction and protects itself by erasing all memories about the subject.

[Dengar]

Nah he didn't create that song. He actually did learn it from a mysterious girl. Remember, Okarin "Prime" grew up in the beta timeline.


Unlike most people, I actually loved this episode. It was great. Feels all around. I love this.

[frodonk]

More than the thing about how the song came about though, was that whatever timeline and whatever age, mayuri is mama and mama is mayuri and mayuri is mama

also, what was in that song on the radio that triggered kagari to walk around and almost get run over by a truck? Was it something that the bad guys (for a lack of a better term) used on her while she was in captivity?

lastly, I can't watch this anymore withough cracking up whenever suzuha says mayonnaise-san

[Marina2]

Thinking about it, now this Mayuri will adopt young Kagari in the future because she knows that a girl will grow into the woman she met in the past.

Another Paradox