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Old 2018-03-02, 20:25   Link #21
ZGoten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Haven't Luffy's boss battles often been like that though? It's not that different from his fights against Eneru, Crocodile, or Lucci to name a few. Although it's true that nobody dominated him as hard as Katakuri, the pattern is still roughly the same. He goes up against opponents that are out of his league and miraculously manages to defeat them after taking a gigantic beating. Pretty much shounen 101. That said, maybe Oda made the gap between Luffy and his opponent too big this time, hence all the criticism.

About Katakuri being a "glass canon", it makes sense if you think about it. He always dodges his opponents' attacks, so he isn't used to getting hit and has therefore build no endurance.
That's the issue in bold right here. Luffy has always defeated (or achieved a draw) against stronger enemeies as early as Crocodile. But him taking way more damage than his opponent was never as extreme as with Katakuri. Plus fights like that made more sense when he didn't get hit by haki attacks since his rubber body would dampen the impact of incoming attacks.
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Old 2018-03-02, 22:12   Link #22
Ramero
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The main problem right now is Germa's whereabout. With the clock is ticking, i do not hope that Straw Hats will be defeated the moment they pop out from mirror world because of Germa's late arrival and lack on manpower from Straw hats to escape. I wish that Germa manage to arrive in time to start the assault to assist Straw Hats to escape. Because if Straw Hats are defeated, Germa will be dishonored because they can't keep their word.
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Old 2018-03-03, 00:07   Link #23
marvelB
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Nice, Luffy finally toppled his first billion+ bounty head! Personally, I thought it was a satisfying enough conclusion. Sure, some people might call BS since Katakuri pretty much outclassed Luffy for most of the fight, but as Kanon pointed out earlier, that's technically been the case for several of our rubber hero's past opponents. Also, despite the beating Luffy received from Katakuri, I personally still don't think that compares to Crocodile nearly outright killing him THREE times in a row, lol.

BTW, as for how the rest of the BM forces will be handled... personally, I'm thinking Germa will handle Oven's group (they've been silent for a good while, after all). As for Smoothie/Daifuku's fleets, maybe the Sun Pirates could take care of them? They could easily sink their ships from underwater, after all. Lastly, as for Linlin herself.... well, she outright starved herself chasing after the cake all this time, so even after devouring it she might still be too exhausted to continue giving chase. I also doubt Capone will get the chance to finish her off, either.... my guess is that Chiffon may convince him to spare her mother (at least, we had no prior indication that Chiffon wanted her dead, I think). And heck, even if he fails to kill her, he and Luffy will undoubtedly gain a huge amount of street cred for coming close, at the very least. After all, among the several witnesses to this incident we have a publisher of a major newspaper (Morgans) and an undercover agent (Stussy), and there's no way in hell they're going to keep quiet about this. Looks like Luffy may get himself another juicy bounty hike by the time he reaches Wano!

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Originally Posted by Trax View Post
Oh right! Usually Luffy is easily fooled by even the most basic of disguises.
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I think you guys are thinking of Chopper. He was completely fooled by the fake SHs during the Sabody reunion.
Foxy says hi, guys.
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Old 2018-03-03, 08:12   Link #24
OH&S
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TL;DR…
Fight Analysis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I agree. It was certainly lackluster compared to the Mingo fight. In retrospect it seems Mingo was stronger than Dogtooth which I didn't expect.
No way was Doflamingo stronger; he is completely outclassed in terms of all three types of Haki. Just look at the way Doflamingo and Katakuri differ when fighting against Gear 4th: Doflamingo could not stand up to it at all while Katakuri manhandled Boundman with his Haki and got into an all out brawl with Snakeman.

That said, there is one advantage Doflamingo has that Luffy and Katakuri don't: Birdcage!!! the ability to repair himself while in battle. That's the sole reason why he was such a bitch to take down in the final battle. Without that, Law's Gamma Knife should have ended him; instead, it took a King Kong Gun to to completely surpass it on top of all the accumulated damage. In that sense, he's like an advanced version of Hody Jones: a big overpowered punching bag for Luffy (and yes, I did just compare Doflamingo to the worst arc villain in the series!!).

--

As for Pudding, I'm sad to see her go. She's such a unique character in One Piece in terms of importance (3-eyes, and only girl in One Piece to like Sanji back) that I kinda wanted her to elope with Sanji. Alas, she's just not well liked enough by the readers for her to stay with the main cast. We'll definitely see her and Katakuri later in when Luffy and Big Mom clash again but I still want to see a good closure for her character in this arc. Not to mention Sanji as well as I don't believe he's gotten his yet.
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Old 2018-03-03, 10:31   Link #25
ShadowSamurai365
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I haven't been reading the chapters lately, just hearing a lot of different views that came from this chapter. Does anyone know where Katakuri stands at a combat ability standpoint ( strength, endurance, durability, and etc.)? Whether or not people agree with the outcome, there still will be a lot of debates of what happened in that fight.
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Old 2018-03-03, 15:41   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
[TLDR="Fight Analysis"]


No way was Doflamingo stronger; he is completely outclassed in terms of all three types of Haki. Just look at the way Doflamingo and Katakuri differ when fighting against Gear 4th: Doflamingo could not stand up to it at all while Katakuri manhandled Boundman with his Haki and got into an all out brawl with Snakeman.



Agreed, Doffy was completely outclassed by Gear 4th while Katakuri basically handled all forms really well. Luffy's main advantage over Katakuri was being able to handle himself in long arduous fights, where he's used to taking 5 hits to land 1. Secondly, Snakeman's purpose is SPEED, the only way to beat someone that could see a few seconds in the future is to hit them fast enough where they are not fast enough to react. Since Luffy was getting glimpses of the future the speed of his punches would aid in being able to hit his target. Think of it this way: "I'm in a foot race with Usain Bolt where I can clearly see him passing me due to his speed, and athleticism. The fact that I can see him passing me, won't change the fact that he will pass me since I can't match his speed.

Last edited by P_Dezz; 2018-03-03 at 15:45. Reason: more
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Old 2018-03-03, 21:06   Link #27
marvelB
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Geez, checking out the chapter again, Oda really DOES emphasize how huge Katakuri is compared to Luffy. It may not be to his mother's extent, but he definitely inherited some modicum of Linlin's gigantism. Kinda makes it even more freaky that she wanted Caesar to make drugs that super-sized her whole country. I wonder how the actual giants would feel about that if Linlin succeeded with her ambition. She's not exactly well-liked among their race, after all....


BTW, going back to Katakuri, something interesting the latest SBS revealed is that he was NOT born with the eel mouth! Apparently, it's a deformity he developed from eating his food so quickly. Oda even mentioned he's considering adding that info to the main story at some point. On that note, in case anyone hasn't yet, you guys really ought to check out the SBS thread some time! You may find quite a bit of neat trivia that doesn't appear in the main story!
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Old 2018-03-03, 21:37   Link #28
SilverGlavenus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365 View Post
I haven't been reading the chapters lately, just hearing a lot of different views that came from this chapter. Does anyone know where Katakuri stands at a combat ability standpoint ( strength, endurance, durability, and etc.)? Whether or not people agree with the outcome, there still will be a lot of debates of what happened in that fight.
Katakuri is definitely one of the top dogs right now, I would classify him right below Yonkou level, around the levels of the Navy Admirals. But considering how we have yet to see all the admirals, my estimations may be far off.

Power wise, I think his greatest strength lies in his ability to foresee the future. His calmness is key for this, as you can see. He is also one of the villains that can change his view of the opponents and therefore unlikely to succumb to his arrogance. Katakuri compensates for his lack of "pure destructive strength" by utilizing his foresight to adjust his attacks, as he did against 4th Gear Luffy. His Mochi Mochi fruit also helps.

Reputation wise, Katakuri is established right from the get go to be the best warrior in Big Mom's pirate. Even his siblings, who are very strong even compared to the straw hats, unanimously regard him as the perfect brother.

Bottom line is this: he's freaking OP, Luffy is lucky to have his plot armor and skills to defeat him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Dezz View Post
Agreed, Doffy was completely outclassed by Gear 4th while Katakuri basically handled all forms really well. Luffy's main advantage over Katakuri was being able to handle himself in long arduous fights, where he's used to taking 5 hits to land 1. Secondly, Snakeman's purpose is SPEED, the only way to beat someone that could see a few seconds in the future is to hit them fast enough where they are not fast enough to react. Since Luffy was getting glimpses of the future the speed of his punches would aid in being able to hit his target. Think of it this way: "I'm in a foot race with Usain Bolt where I can clearly see him passing me due to his speed, and athleticism. The fact that I can see him passing me, won't change the fact that he will pass me since I can't match his speed.
That's a nice way to put it. Luffy also needs to improve his speed to keep up with his new found abilitites.
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Old 2018-03-04, 04:56   Link #29
Oberstein
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Despite how unncessary dragged the battle Oda successful to delivered to impact of the battle which worth the epic battle of two men. Come to think again this probably the most fiercest battle Luffy had after time skip, Doflamingo hardly called as battle technically it were everyone vs Doffy while Luffy vs Kata is purely single battle. Hordy and Caesar more like warm up
Might to say battle with Katakuri is how Oda secretly drill Luffy before fight against the most durable creature in OP World; Kaidou.
Now i hope Oda also will give Zoro a good battle in future. He never have a strong foe so far after time skip.
Oda clearly put ego all around to BM crew, how Morganna confidently claimed Roger would not escape from their trap made me laugh
I don't think Luffy will go out from that mirror because Pekom is there then that mean he might has secured alternate escape mirror for Luffy.
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Old 2018-03-04, 14:49   Link #30
Ramero
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
As for Pudding, I'm sad to see her go. She's such a unique character in One Piece in terms of importance (3-eyes, and only girl in One Piece to like Sanji back) that I kinda wanted her to elope with Sanji. Alas, she's just not well liked enough by the readers for her to stay with the main cast. We'll definitely see her and Katakuri later in when Luffy and Big Mom clash again but I still want to see a good closure for her character in this arc. Not to mention Sanji as well as I don't believe he's gotten his yet.
I think Zoro will find a new way to annoy Sanji, perhaps an enhanced version of Zoro vs Sanji later. Still, it will be quite hilarious if Zoro see it though, maybe he will get beaten up by Pudding later.

The most interesting part is how Katakuri will respect Luffy on his own POV from now on. I think the next fight will be more honorable ones.
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Old 2018-03-05, 04:20   Link #31
Gintokifan22
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Fun chapter, love how much they respect each other too, hope he returns later and I mean sooner than the actual ending please.

Luffy is high above the sky now, wonder how he's going to defeat Kaidou next?

If they have another Big Mom arc likes its being foreshadowed err um half her crew will have either left or been defeated at that point, she will need stronger people under her belt for when they fight next time.

If Sanji gets his memory clean ouch.
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Old 2018-03-05, 07:14   Link #32
Ramero
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Originally Posted by Gintokifan22 View Post
Fun chapter, love how much they respect each other too, hope he returns later and I mean sooner than the actual ending please.

Luffy is high above the sky now, wonder how he's going to defeat Kaidou next?

If they have another Big Mom arc likes its being foreshadowed err um half her crew will have either left or been defeated at that point, she will need stronger people under her belt for when they fight next time.

If Sanji gets his memory clean ouch.
I don't think Luffy can defeat Kaidou single-handedly like that. He need Law to assist him since you know how big and powerful Kaidou is. Remember kaidou's title so it's not like a walk in the park for sure. I'm sure Zoro can handle Jack in any ways but i think Zoro will be also assisted by Kin'emon to defeat Jack as well.

Even defeating Doflamingo, Luffy cannot do it single-handedly. He will lose if Doflamingo was not attacked by Law beforehand but the feat of defeating Katakuri by his own is quite a feat. If Luffy vs Doflamingo head to head alone, Luffy is guaranteed to be lose for sure since Doflamingo is more powerful than Katakuri when alone because of his capabilities of regeneration.
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Old 2018-03-07, 03:17   Link #33
grey_1960
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Chapter 896
That was a good chapter. I have said this before Luffy, Zoro, and Jimbi are just has powerful has Yonkou's top fighters. The fact that Luffy beat(when I say beat I mean barely) Daflamingo proved that he could deal with top yonkou fighters, but this now cements his abilities. Has for the rest of the Straw Hats Zoro and Jimbi are just has strong and I believe they can do the same. Has for Yonkous I don't think any of the straw hats can face off against a Yonkou on there own.
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Old 2018-03-07, 04:20   Link #34
Gintokifan22
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Originally Posted by Ramero View Post
I don't think Luffy can defeat Kaidou single-handedly like that. He need Law to assist him since you know how big and powerful Kaidou is. Remember kaidou's title so it's not like a walk in the park for sure. I'm sure Zoro can handle Jack in any ways but i think Zoro will be also assisted by Kin'emon to defeat Jack as well.

Even defeating Doflamingo, Luffy cannot do it single-handedly. He will lose if Doflamingo was not attacked by Law beforehand but the feat of defeating Katakuri by his own is quite a feat. If Luffy vs Doflamingo head to head alone, Luffy is guaranteed to be lose for sure since Doflamingo is more powerful than Katakuri when alone because of his capabilities of regeneration.
Oh, I'm pretty sure it will be a team up between Luffy and the captains of the supernovas to take down Kaidou and his army of whatever the heck hey'll have to fight. But, you don't think Luffy won't get the finishing blow? Come on. I bet 10$ Luffy's awakening will awaken in his fight with Kaidou, how awesome would it be for that to happen in front of all his rivals and new team of friends? I'm sure the government will see it too and consider him a threat now, if his bounty doesn't go up after this arc it definitely will after Wano, man that arcs going to be even longer than this one LOL.

Zoro won't take out Jack, I'm pretty he will be a stepping stone for Luffy for that arc like Cracker was for Luffy in this arc. Zoro I have no idea who he's going to defeat but honestly, his fan boys annoy me and I hope he gets treated like Sanji did in his own arc
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Old 2018-03-07, 07:03   Link #35
Ramero
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Originally Posted by Gintokifan22 View Post
Oh, I'm pretty sure it will be a team up between Luffy and the captains of the supernovas to take down Kaidou and his army of whatever the heck hey'll have to fight. But, you don't think Luffy won't get the finishing blow? Come on. I bet 10$ Luffy's awakening will awaken in his fight with Kaidou, how awesome would it be for that to happen in front of all his rivals and new team of friends? I'm sure the government will see it too and consider him a threat now, if his bounty doesn't go up after this arc it definitely will after Wano, man that arcs going to be even longer than this one LOL.

Zoro won't take out Jack, I'm pretty he will be a stepping stone for Luffy for that arc like Cracker was for Luffy in this arc. Zoro I have no idea who he's going to defeat but honestly, his fan boys annoy me and I hope he gets treated like Sanji did in his own arc
Luffy will surely deal the finishing blow to Kaidou and Zoro will also take out Jack as well. Zoro will challenge the Shogun of Wano for sure especially to earn the rights of Wano treasure's ownership, Shisui. Perhaps Jack will not defeated by Luffy but i prefer that the Minks will deal the finishing blow to Jack as part of revenge for his atrocity at Zou.

Since rescuing Sanji is a Special Operations, i don't think Marine will get involved in this matter, not too much but i expect that the bounty will increase by at least 100 million. However if the CP-0 cover this up, perhaps the next bounty will be issued after Wano since i'm sure it will involve Marines. Any event that involves Marines in that area will surely guarantee to increase the bounty of Straw hats. I notice that everytime the bounty of Straw hats increased, there is always marines involved. In my opinion, CP-0 does not count for this since they are the agent, not part of Marines.
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Old 2018-03-08, 01:12   Link #36
grey_1960
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Originally Posted by Gintokifan22 View Post
Oh, I'm pretty sure it will be a team up between Luffy and the captains of the supernovas to take down Kaidou and his army of whatever the heck hey'll have to fight. But, you don't think Luffy won't get the finishing blow? Come on. I bet 10$ Luffy's awakening will awaken in his fight with Kaidou, how awesome would it be for that to happen in front of all his rivals and new team of friends? I'm sure the government will see it too and consider him a threat now, if his bounty doesn't go up after this arc it definitely will after Wano, man that arcs going to be even longer than this one LOL.

Zoro won't take out Jack, I'm pretty he will be a stepping stone for Luffy for that arc like Cracker was for Luffy in this arc. Zoro I have no idea who he's going to defeat but honestly, his fan boys annoy me and I hope he gets treated like Sanji did in his own arc
Fanboy vs. Facts
Oda won't reduce Zoro to Sanji's standards. Since the time skip Zoro has stomped all of his foes. He is a supernova like Luffy. Thriller Bark proved he was strong when he survived Kuma's attack and took all of his captain's pain. He has also been key to the crews well being and unity. Example Ussope leaving the straw hats in water 7. Oda has done nothing but build Zoro up. Finally Admiral Fujitori had nothing but good compliments when Zoro resisted his powers and counter attacked. Hope all you want but Oda isn't listening.
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Old 2018-03-10, 20:15   Link #37
Jmariofan7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
I have to admit I'm not a fan of this chapter. I don't like Luffy defeating a better fighter simply because he has 20 times his opponent's levels of endurance for some inexplicable reason. With all the damage Luffy had taken for chapters upon chapters, and with Katakuri taking next to no blow except his own, that final trade should not have had Luffy come out ahead of this. It almost makes Katakuri look like a glass cannon in comparison. On paper and by points Katakuri would have won by a landslide prior to the final exchange.
I guess you’re forgetting the part of the fight where Dogtooth lost his composure when Luffy saw him eating donuts and his observation Haki shut down and Luffy went Gear 4 and started wailing on him. Also it was pretty confirmed by Dogtooth that Luffy Observation Haki reached his own.

Also Luffy’s endurance isn’t just because of experience but also the fact that he has a RUBBER BODY that can absorb blows.

Seriously do you and other people on these forums even pay attention to the chapters and contex?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
That said, maybe Oda made the gap between Luffy and his opponent too big this time, hence all the criticism.
It wasn’t that big, Dogtooth’s Observation Haki was the main factor here, and seem to be forgetting that Luffy trained himself in this fight and his Observation Haki is equal to Dogtooth’s.

Lot’s of people seem to be ignoring that context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus View Post
Power wise, I think his greatest strength lies in his ability to foresee the future. His calmness is key for this, as you can see. He is also one of the villains that can change his view of the opponents and therefore unlikely to succumb to his arrogance. Katakuri compensates for his lack of "pure destructive strength" by utilizing his foresight to adjust his attacks, as he did against 4th Gear Luffy. His Mochi Mochi fruit also helps.

Bottom line is this: he's freaking OP, Luffy is lucky to have his plot armor and skills to defeat him.
For the love of... people need to stop using the dumb term “plot armor”, in a story pretty much EVERYONE has “plot armor” until they kick the bucket, it’s a lazy argument.

Also people are forgetting that Luffy’s Observation Haki was pretty much equal to Katakuri at the climax of the fight.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2018-03-10 at 23:31. Reason: Please don't triple-post. Use the "edit" button to add content to your post.
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