2007-06-27, 13:13 | Link #361 | |
lonely soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Age of Evening Calm
|
Quote:
Are you saying that all loli hentai fans "need counseling, and the sooner the better"? What's about people who enjoy rape/humiliation hentai along with other genres? ( No, I don't intend to debate pedophilia. )
__________________
|
|
2007-06-27, 13:22 | Link #362 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
After all the manga itself doesn't seem to be suitable for the peoples like you (I guess you're probably part of the ANN crowd that made the license dropped ) No, seriously, if you can't bear the nudity, nobody's obligating you to read it, just delete your scanlation and forget about this thread so you don't have to ear about/see any suggestive shot of Rin from that manga or fanart pics :P
__________________
|
|
2007-06-27, 13:29 | Link #363 | ||
9wiki
Scanlator
|
Quote:
Being sexually aroused by a representation of a child and not a real child is still something very, very concerning. The particular enjoyment of rape or humiliation pornography is also very concerning, but not related, except that interest in both it and sexual interest in children (or representations thereof) can stem from personal issues involving power or control. Quote:
Although if you're seriously saying I'm part of the ANN crowd that caused it to be dropped, I guess you haven't been reading my posts! |
||
2007-06-27, 13:34 | Link #364 | |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Quote:
Either way, I think you should create your own topic on your find in psychology about how reading manga makes you into a pedonecrozoophile murderer, because this isn't really what the topic of this thread is about Speaking of funny stuffs (and to stay on topic ), there's something in the last chapters released that I found funny: Spoiler for chapter23:
__________________
|
|
2007-06-27, 14:02 | Link #365 | |
9wiki
Scanlator
|
Quote:
- That the ANN crowd (among others) had many objections to this book that were not solely comprised of the imagery (when much of the imagery itself had not been taken in context by the ANN crowd), that many potential objections were speculated on, and that the majority of those objections were not valid. I was adding my voice to the very small group that didn't fall into the "it's evil lolicon paraphenallia" or the "I take offense at social mores or I just want domestically printed lolicon-oriented manga" groups, but instead took a more balanced approach and actually attempted to judge it by its content without oversimplifying it. - That the story has been far deeper, tragic, and more aligned with the moral mainstream than has been commonly interpreted, and that it very oddly seems to contradict some of its incidental imagery, as that imagery is interpreted according to the seeming majority. The whys are still partly in question. As I said, if I were dismissing this as borderline pornography, discussing lolicon itself, or simply making an argument against semi-pornagraphic content (which I do not think this is despite my reservations and objections to some of the imagery), then I would not be discussing it here. |
|
2007-06-27, 14:08 | Link #366 |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
I'm sorry, but I still don't see any difference between you and the ANN crowd, no offense intended, you just try to be tamer, but the result is the same, you're the part of 'omg loli nudity! DIES!!!', so please stop trying to sound like you're not like them, because you are, even if you don't like it, at least 25% like them, which is enough for me to believe you're part of the reason why this series got dropped.
__________________
|
2007-06-27, 14:15 | Link #367 | |
9wiki
Scanlator
|
Quote:
If you want to believe I'm part of the bogeyman syndicate, go ahead. Meanwhile, I'll discuss things you assume I'm not, and we can stop taking up space on this thread with "Yes, you are" and "No, I'm not". |
|
2007-06-27, 14:21 | Link #368 |
Unfair
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Well fanservice is fanservice, there's no need to try to interpret it, it's there because it's well known that this genre of fanservice is rare in mangas therefore may help raise the manga's popularity given its prime readers.
__________________
|
2007-06-27, 14:33 | Link #369 | |
9wiki
Scanlator
|
Quote:
It's clear that many people are reading this because of they like lolicon. However, I think that considering the context of the story and the author's comments, to dismiss it so simply as "just fanservice, plain and simple" (and implying sexualized fanservice) is far over simplifying the issue--whether or not in each example it actually is sexualized fanservice, since some of the pictures causing outrage were NOT. It's that sort of oversimplification that caused the ANN community reaction in the first place (the only difference being whether or not one is offended by lolicon). |
|
2007-06-27, 14:36 | Link #370 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Uh... Naked kids are supposed to be "fanservice"?
I mean, personally, I'm okay with the naked kids, precisely because it's not fanservice to me. I won't claim I wasn't a bit shocked (in a neutral way) at first, but it quickly wore off. Now I see them with about as much excitement as I see naked animals. I don't see the pictures as sexualised imagery. To me, they're just a medium to show the... I can't find the right word... the weirdness that are Kuro and Rin's lives and personalities. Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2007-06-28 at 16:01. |
2007-06-27, 17:48 | Link #371 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Thany, the only thing you accomplish with that sort of black'n'white stance is to end up standing all by yourself. Opinions are on a spectrum, not two boxes. Kyuusei sees the value of the story but wonders why the odd bits of sexualized imagery which seems incongruous with the core story. You're basically telling people to shut up and go away who are interested in the story. Interpretation is inherently part of reading any story so telling people there's no need to interpret ... well that's a meaningless directive. You're being as knee-jerk as the ANN crowd when the KnJ appreciation tent has room for a variety of interests.
People complained about Kanon having H-scenes that detracted from the core story as well. There's nothing wrong with wondering why a scene is written the way it is and trying to interpret it. So why are some of the more sexualized moments in KnJ there? I don't think the imagery in the story is incongruous (though some of the eyecatches between chapters seem targeted to lolicon). Authors get competing pressures from their publishers and marketeers and their own personal goals. To some extent, the imagery is there because the author WANTS to get your attention that this may be dangerous territory. In KnJ, I'm betting that the author is trying to push the envelope and tell a really interesting story in the vein of its ancestor "Lolita" but still toss in the occasional image that will pump up sales with a particular money-spending demographic ("lolicon" isn't precisely the word but whatever) and make the bean-counters happy. The tension of the potential is part of what makes the story interesting. From what I'm gathering on other channels, that demographic is expressing some dismay at KnJ's story because it *isn't* catering to their fantasies. Rather, its telling a deeper story with more complicated characters and I *think* the underlying problem is that the teacher Aoki isn't fitting their "insert me into this story as this character" needs, so there's no character they can easily relate to personally. So far, I relate to Aoki because I work/volunteer/teach teens -- how to deal with a sexually aggressive youngster is something teachers and coaches need to know how to handle and solve without going down in flames *or* dashing the youngster's feelings to despair (since such things are often a "cry for help"). @Hayumi: being attracted to 'anime fantasy loli' is really no different than being attracted to 'catgirls' or 'gynoids' or vampires or any fictional character type. Its a pleasant fantasy, period. I'm a bit of a xenophile - I find the exotic and alien interesting.
__________________
Last edited by Vexx; 2007-06-27 at 18:39. |
2007-06-27, 18:25 | Link #372 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
|
@Vexx
Word. Kyuusai and I share the same sentiments towards some scenes in the manga... but we don't necessarily condemn it to a fiery hell, like how some certain witch-hunters did in the past. The, err, "kinky" scenes are exactly how Vexx puts it: they aim grab your attention. Whether you're moderately surprised, shocked or even tittilated by the said kinky scenes, they WILL grab your attention one way or another. And I do notice that the arguments and counter-arguments are slowly reaching the personal level... a few short steps to flaming. When debating, kindly target the words in the post, and please don't presume to infer the personality or character of the poster. Name-calling, stereotyping and dealing in absolutes are pretty much flame-bait |
2007-06-27, 19:13 | Link #373 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 48
|
Quote:
|
|
2007-06-27, 19:38 | Link #374 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
That matches the feeling I've also gotten from reading the mangaka's interviews and posts on the topic. Thanks for the interview link.
I think she's doing what she intended if she makes her bell curve-centered audience a *little* uncomfortable and forces them to examine their personal "unwritten rules"
__________________
|
2007-06-27, 20:51 | Link #377 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
Makube2: Wanna provide some context there before you strike a match? That's another scene that can be totally misread without it. What's the reference volume and page?
More importantly, what point are you trying to make...? (followup: that scene isn't in volumes 1-3.... 4 isn't due out til august... where did it come from?)
__________________
|
2007-06-27, 21:12 | Link #380 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
It would have been nice to provide the lead up to that and his response, eh? That's another one of those out-of-context things soccer-moms would go bananas about. Out of curiosity, do you have the leadup and follow on page? ((Rin is even more problematic and aggressive than I imagined she'd get, yeesh -- Aoki seems doomed to a nervous breakdown))
__________________
|
Tags |
comedy, growing up, loli, school life, seinen |
|
|