AnimeSuki Forums

Endscape · 2019-08-30, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Frankly, Force's presentation left a lot to be desired. Nothing against Yukari Higa, but battle manga are not her specialty, and Masaki Tsuzuki could have ironed out the sequence of events more before attempting this. I'm sure these characters will show up in something in the future though.

I seriously doubt we'll see anything at the time of Strikers or beyond ever again myself. The Nanoha franchise seems to be sticking to Season 1 and A's for the foreseeable future.

Can't believe it's been 6 years since this was cancelled "put on hiatus".

I enjoyed it quite a bit. The contrast with Vivid was nice.

DKN117 · 2019-08-30, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endscape

I seriously doubt we'll see anything at the time of Strikers or beyond ever again myself. The Nanoha franchise seems to be sticking to Season 1 and A's for the foreseeable future.

I super-hope that's not true, because I really like some of the characters introduced in StrikerS, especially the Forward Quartet...

vic-vic · 2019-08-31, 02:33

Well, long huatuses is not that uncommon in Japan (like Total Elcipse).

I also want to see Froce back. The dark tone of the series was IMHO a welcome addition to series. Not to say that "befirending" not seems to work this time: defeated Grendels were very eager to break free no matter how much hayate tried to sweet-talk them.

And I like how Huckbeins are present: ruthless family of mercs (and Stella are super-cute)

4th Dimension · 2019-08-31, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Frankly, Force's presentation left a lot to be desired. Nothing against Yukari Higa, but battle manga are not her specialty, and Masaki Tsuzuki could have ironed out the sequence of events more before attempting this. I'm sure these characters will show up in something in the future though.

Highly unlikely given that they pretty much recycled most of the ideas they seemed to like into Reflection/Detonation.

Force... I'm not one of it's fans even though it was certanly more Nanoha than bloody Vivid, even though it to me missed the mark a LOT. mainly in how it set up it's antagonists and then fell over itself trying to make them likable, which was kinda impossible, after the shit we've seen them do at the start.

Plus I was never a fan of pointlessly strapping pieces of metal to everything to make it more """"cool"""" nor of the whole outright immunity to magic nonsense.

alex_drian · 2019-08-31, 06:22

Well, actually I liked Senki Force even if only because I liked the promise of new devices and new OP villains, and actually after certains things that Vivid did, I really miss it a lot.

Kurohane · 2019-08-31, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Highly unlikely given that they pretty much recycled most of the ideas they seemed to like into Reflection/Detonation.

Force... I'm not one of it's fans even though it was certanly more Nanoha than bloody Vivid, even though it to me missed the mark a LOT. mainly in how it set up it's antagonists and then fell over itself trying to make them likable, which was kinda impossible, after the shit we've seen them do at the start.

Plus I was never a fan of pointlessly strapping pieces of metal to everything to make it more """"cool"""" nor of the whole outright immunity to magic nonsense.

I just get the impression Tsuzuki likes to reuse characters, if Innocents is anything to go by.

I don't know about that. I've seen a lot of people drawn to those types of characters even if the plot fell over. Of the top of my head, there's

Spoiler for persona 5:

Antic-magic itself isn't a bad concept. Strikers had some form of anti-magic. It's just another example where Tsuzuki should have ironed out the details before going forward.

4th Dimension · 2019-08-31, 13:36

StrikerS anti magic isn't all out magic cancelation. You could either finesse through it, or just power through it. It's the difference between having a base protected by AA or having a field that just disables all planes or plane weapons with no exceptions. With first you can find workarounds or just power through it, with the second it pretty much deletes the concept in question from relevance.

Innocents is quite old thing and hardly connected to the rest of the franchise. It's from the times when StrikerS and like was relevant, and Vivid was a new thing relatively speaking.

Detonation/Reflection pretty much reused all characters that it seems MT cares for these days that arne't tied into Vivid/Strike spin off from StrikerS and onwards. We have the game characters (some of whoom have been destroyed character wise) the weapons and designs from Force, the nearly outright invulnerable to magic (okay unlike with Eclipse they need to do some work before, but nor much) shenanigans, a Jail substitute crazy scientist, an army of cyborgs and humanoid drones etc.

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-05, 15:17

Since my last message seemed to have miraculously brought the threat back to life, he are some more of my fan theories of what I think would happen next in Force's story:

Spoiler for My theory:

Now, Force litterally starts with the question whether magic is good or bad, and since our MC has the power to litterally destroy magic, I'm pretty sure he will at some point be faced with the option to wipe out ALL magic.

I actually think that Thoma becoming the "villain" of the story is where things are heading. This would be the ultimate subversion of the Nanoha formula and it seems to the story is already setting it up through his hesitation to join the Nakajima family and the setting.
Also, part of why Riot Six took him in is to develop countermeasures should he become a threat. So it would be ironic if this backfires and they divulge all their secrets learn nothing about his EC abilities, after all they're doing a pretty bad job at training him. On the topic, it seems to me that Riot Six are forcing their ways onto him; he isn't a mage, yet they still train him as one.

Now as for Thoma's motivation for becoming the "villain." I think he will just see too much of the dark side of magic through his time in Riot Six and perhaps Huckebein should he switch sides.
However, I think the final straw for him will be what happened to his home town. Now I think the "Seed of Origin" where the Eclipse Virus originated from was found buried beneath the Vaizen Mines, similar to the Saint Craddle in Strikers. The Mines were likely owned by Vandein and they took the Seed and then destroyed the town to remove witnesses. This would also explain why Thoma is so compatible with Eclipse; he might have been exposed to the Seed. Vandein claims to do this for "magical development," so even if Thoma were to get his revenge, I can see him not finding peace and turn his harted towards magic itself.
Another ruite is that it was the TSAB that destroyed the town due to it having become infected by the Seed. Thoma would probably still get his dislike of magical technology from his inevitable confrontation with Hades and it would likely destroy his trust in Riot Six.
Thoma's experience traveling frontier worlds without magical technology could give him all he needs to prove a world without magical technology can work and would allow him to survive an argument with the other characters.

Now since the story is titled "Senki" (war chronicle), I think Thoma will end up as the leader of one of the factions in this war. As for his army, I can definitely see the Grendal Family join him. Perhaps the Huckebein too, provided they are in poor shape when Thoma finally turns.
However, I think Thoma's force will mostly be composed of Raptors. Now the Raports had to have been introduced into the story for a reason and them being used as an army is the only thing I can think of. Also, the company that made them might have it's own dark secrets, considering those EC countermeasures gotta to have come from somewhere and the story's frames all this innovation quite negatively. Now the reason why the Raptors might join Thoma will likely be because they will develop more personality and break free from their creators.

With this in mind, if Thoma were to actually succeed and wipe out all magic, it could become the Nanoha equivalent of the MCU's Thanos Snap, since a large amount of characters own their lives to magic. Now I think that beings made from magic (Hayate's guardians as well as Fusion Devices and familiars) will definitely cease to exist. Next, magical and none-magical technology might also get effected, causing all devices as well as Subaru and the other Combat Cyborgs to go comatose. Finally, Stroseks should be able to survive, since they were created from Eclipse, and clones (Fate, Erio, and Vivio) as well, since it would be hard to bring them back later; a Nanoha story needs a HAPPY END after all!

DragonXX · 2019-09-08, 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some random Otaku

While it is unlikely that Force would ever continue at this point, I would like to write down my thoughts of what I think would happen next in the story:

I definitely think Thoma is going to hand over Veyron's heart to Arnage without a fight, provided she explains the situation.
This will definitely go a long way to driving a wedge between Thoma and Riot Six, which I believe has been building for a while now. I mean, they even have Isis spy on him for them!

This will also go a long way to returning moral greyness back into the story. Afterall, people effected by Eclipse have to kill just to live. They do not have much choice in the matter, yet the TSAB treats them like regular criminals, like they have all the answers while they really don't.

The problem with that is the TSAB had already made something to help with that or Thomas would of needed to kill people over the months that was skip over to get to this point in the Story. So that had already fell through, it now mean that they are choosing not to get help and continue there killing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some random Otaku

Since my last message seemed to have miraculously brought the threat back to life, he are some more of my fan theories of what I think would happen next in Force's story:

Spoiler for My theory:

Now, Force litterally starts with the question whether magic is good or bad, and since our MC has the power to litterally destroy magic, I'm pretty sure he will at some point be faced with the option to wipe out ALL magic.

I actually think that Thoma becoming the "villain" of the story is where things are heading. This would be the ultimate subversion of the Nanoha formula and it seems to the story is already setting it up through his hesitation to join the Nakajima family and the setting.
Also, part of why Riot Six took him in is to develop countermeasures should he become a threat. So it would be ironic if this backfires and they divulge all their secrets learn nothing about his EC abilities, after all they're doing a pretty bad job at training him. On the topic, it seems to me that Riot Six are forcing their ways onto him; he isn't a mage, yet they still train him as one.

Now as for Thoma's motivation for becoming the "villain." I think he will just see too much of the dark side of magic through his time in Riot Six and perhaps Huckebein should he switch sides.
However, I think the final straw for him will be what happened to his home town. Now I think the "Seed of Origin" where the Eclipse Virus originated from was found buried beneath the Vaizen Mines, similar to the Saint Craddle in Strikers. The Mines were likely owned by Vandein and they took the Seed and then destroyed the town to remove witnesses. This would also explain why Thoma is so compatible with Eclipse; he might have been exposed to the Seed. Vandein claims to do this for "magical development," so even if Thoma were to get his revenge, I can see him not finding peace and turn his harted towards magic itself.
Another ruite is that it was the TSAB that destroyed the town due to it having become infected by the Seed. Thoma would probably still get his dislike of magical technology from his inevitable confrontation with Hades and it would likely destroy his trust in Riot Six.
Thoma's experience traveling frontier worlds without magical technology could give him all he needs to prove a world without magical technology can work and would allow him to survive an argument with the other characters.

Now since the story is titled "Senki" (war chronicle), I think Thoma will end up as the leader of one of the factions in this war. As for his army, I can definitely see the Grendal Family join him. Perhaps the Huckebein too, provided they are in poor shape when Thoma finally turns.
However, I think Thoma's force will mostly be composed of Raptors. Now the Raports had to have been introduced into the story for a reason and them being used as an army is the only thing I can think of. Also, the company that made them might have it's own dark secrets, considering those EC countermeasures gotta to have come from somewhere and the story's frames all this innovation quite negatively. Now the reason why the Raptors might join Thoma will likely be because they will develop more personality and break free from their creators.

With this in mind, if Thoma were to actually succeed and wipe out all magic, it could become the Nanoha equivalent of the MCU's Thanos Snap, since a large amount of characters own their lives to magic. Now I think that beings made from magic (Hayate's guardians as well as Fusion Devices and familiars) will definitely cease to exist. Next, magical and none-magical technology might also get effected, causing all devices as well as Subaru and the other Combat Cyborgs to go comatose. Finally, Stroseks should be able to survive, since they were created from Eclipse, and clones (Fate, Erio, and Vivio) as well, since it would be hard to bring them back later; a Nanoha story needs a HAPPY END after all!

That wouldn't be a happy ending it would be the opposite it would made a war more horrible then the Belken War. Beside Earth, the whole Multiverse uses magic to do everything, it would be like shooting the whole Multiverse in the foot and the economy will fall a part. It would start horrible Civil War in each of the World. The worlds wouldn't be about to travel to each other anymore because they use magic to do that but the Worlds would be force into an Apocalyptic scenario. It would also made Earth the most powerful forces in the multiverse because they don't use magic for anything and would mean that Earth will be the first to made a ship to travel between world without magic because other then on Earth most stuff on other worlds would stop working. When Earth find these other world with life and they are unable to fight back against them, well we know from our history that it never turn out well for the group that is behind in tech. So Earth will be causing genocide everywhere. Also even Eclipse need mages/magic to work, without it they can't become a living weapon, so Eclipse would death out with magic too.

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-08, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonXX

That wouldn't be a happy ending it would be the opposite it would made a war more horrible then the Belken War. Beside Earth, the whole Multiverse uses magic to do everything, it would be like shooting the whole Multiverse in the foot and the economy will fall a part. It would start horrible Civil War in each of the World. The worlds wouldn't be about to travel to each other anymore because they use magic to do that but the Worlds would be force into an Apocalyptic scenario. It would also made Earth the most powerful forces in the multiverse because they don't use magic for anything and would mean that Earth will be the first to made a ship to travel between world without magic because other then on Earth most stuff on other worlds would stop working. When Earth find these other world with life and they are unable to fight back against them, well we know from our history that it never turn out well for the group that is behind in tech. So Earth will be causing genocide everywhere. Also even Eclipse need mages/magic to work, without it they can't become a living weapon, so Eclipse would death out with magic too.

I've already given several reasons why Thoma might decide to go down that route.

Spoiler for Response:

As several characters have stated, Thoma is naive. So I think him doing this without going over the long-term consequences would be perfectly in line with his character.

It would also be a return to the sympathetic villains from the series' early days.
The difference being that, while Fate and Hayate's guardians were victims of circumstance, Thoma would be truly convinced that he is doing the right thing.
Also, because of how the "Divide Zero: Eclipse" effected Subaru, I think non-magical technology would also become useless. Thoma's goal would be to destroy humanity's ability to develop and use weapons that could to destroy themselves; Lost Logia would also be destroyed.

In addition, Thoma going villain and erasing all magic might become a jumping off platform for the other characters to develop.
The biggest problem with Force for me is that, whereas all the new characters are interesting, the returning ones have remained mostly stagnant. Compare this to Strikers, which managed to give every member of Riot Six a satisfying character arc, and you can't help but think of it as a serious downgrade.
One of their own betraying them, followed by their first real defeat would make it interesting to see how they would react.
Also, to me, everything Thoma saw when he fell ill were his true feelings. Thoma has always come over to me as someone who is putting on a mask to prevent others from seeing his darker side.
At the same time, Riot Six comes over to me as trying to push them own ideals onto Thoma; they really aren't that different from the Huckebein in that regard. So him betraying them might cause them to realize they really did not understand him at all.
All in all, the reason why I can see Thoma succeeding in erasing all magic is because he developed through the story, whereas the Riot Six members remained static.

I am mostly interested in how Nanoha and Thoma's relationship would develop.
Thoma always came over to me as a dark reflection of Nanoha, being much like she was early in the series, yet it leading to him befriending actual criminals!
At the same time, however, they are very different; Nanoha had nothing until magic came into her life, whereas Thoma lost everything once because of it. So I can totally see Thoma telling her that she has no right to criticize him, since she has never lost anything.
This would also make it especially impactful for Nanoha if Thoma does indeed succeed in erasing all the magic, since it could lead to her losing everything.

vic-vic · 2019-09-08, 13:36

I hope to see that there is entire conglomerate of powerful corporations that create an alliance under the leadership of Hades Vandein and currently build up the army of not only Eclipse Drivers but powerful war machines, created from blueprints from Ancient Belka/Al`Hazardian times.

The sheer scope of danger forces Hucks/Grendels to join forces with our heroes. But since it not enough Nanoha and co goes to Nanoha/Hayate's homewolrd to gain the support from the Earth's governments and their military industrial complexes. Also, it would be nice to see Takamchi family, Arisa and Suzuka again (but this time as a participants of the conflict).

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-08, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic-vic

I hope to see that there is entire conglomerate of powerful corporations that create an alliance under the leadership of Hades Vandein and currently build up the army of not only Eclipse Drivers but powerful war machines, created from blueprints from Ancient Belka/Al`Hazardian times.

The sheer scope of danger forces Hucks/Grendels to join forces with our heroes. But since it not enough Nanoha and co goes to Nanoha/Hayate's homewolrd to gain the support from the Earth's governments and their military industrial complexes. Also, it would be nice to see Takamchi family, Arisa and Suzuka again (but this time as a participants of the conflict).

Spoiler for My story:

4th Dimension · 2019-09-08, 15:48

Erase magic...

SURE! WHY NOT! Let's COMPLETELY erase the main thing why this universe was interesting. Hey while we are at it let's dump a big stingking pile of SHIT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT and call it a crown.

I think you need to tell this to MT, since he'll DEFINITELY do it since it's a bad idea.
Although since you are mentioning Thoma, I don't think your ideas meet a minimum lesbian percentage. So you'll need to add a LOOOT of """"FRIENDS"""" for certain people to go bananas over.

vic-vic · 2019-09-08, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Erase magic...

SURE! WHY NOT! Let's COMPLETELY erase the main thing why this universe was interesting. Hey while we are at it let's dump a big stingking pile of SHIT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT and call it a crown.

I think you need to tell this to MT, since he'll DEFINITELY do it since it's a bad idea.
Although since you are mentioning Thoma, I don't think your ideas meet a minimum lesbian percentage. So you'll need to add a LOOOT of """"FRIENDS"""" for certain people to go bananas over.

Yeah, I think magic NEED to remain in setting. Mixing masic + sci-fi/cyberpunk traits to make it more like Shadowrun.

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-08, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Erase magic...

SURE! WHY NOT! Let's COMPLETELY erase the main thing why this universe was interesting. Hey while we are at it let's dump a big stingking pile of SHIT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT and call it a crown.

I think you need to tell this to MT, since he'll DEFINITELY do it since it's a bad idea.
Although since you are mentioning Thoma, I don't think your ideas meet a minimum lesbian percentage. So you'll need to add a LOOOT of """"FRIENDS"""" for certain people to go bananas over.

I NEVER SAID IT WOULD BE PERMANENT!

Also, I think that "erasing the main thing why this universe was interesting" is what makes the concept so interesting.

What would the fallout be?
How would everyone react?
Would characters reliant on magic to exist simply be erased or fall in a coma (at least temporarily)?

DragonXX · 2019-09-09, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some random Otaku

I NEVER SAID IT WOULD BE PERMANENT!

Also, I think that "erasing the main thing why this universe was interesting" is what makes the concept so interesting.

What would the fallout be?
How would everyone react?
Would characters reliant on magic to exist simply be erased or fall in a coma (at least temporarily)?

I already said the fall out would be civil war everywhere and collapse of all the Worlds Economy. Magic is what run anything in the worlds beside Earth in this series. Thoma would basely be doing Y2K for the Multiverse in the series and would basely start the Apocalypse and whatever left after the end of the chaos will become Post-Apocalypse wastelands, only Earth would be left OK.

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-09, 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonXX

I already said the fall out would be civil war everywhere and collapse of all the Worlds Economy. Magic is what run anything in the worlds beside Earth in this series. Thoma would basely be doing Y2K for the Multiverse in the series and would basely start the Apocalypse and whatever left after the end of the chaos will become Post-Apocalypse wastelands, only Earth would be left OK.

And I stated in my responce that, since the "Divide Zero: Eclipse" effected Subaru's cyborg body too, non-magical technology would also stop functioning.
That way, even if there were a riot, there would be no high-tech weapons and it would thus likely remain small; certainly not large enough to cause an apocalypse.

Thoma's goal would be to reduce civilization back to the "old style," as seen with the cultural reserve he visits at the start of Force, to prevent humanity from destroying themselves with their technology.
This "unchecked progress brings destruction" theme is most clearly seen through the Vandein Corporation, which infects people with Eclipse for the sake of "innovation."

DragonXX · 2019-09-09, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some random Otaku

And I stated in my responce that, since the "Divide Zero: Eclipse" effected Subaru's cyborg body too, non-magical technology would also stop functioning.
That way, even if there were a riot, there would be no high-tech weapons and it would thus likely remain small; certainly not large enough to cause an apocalypse.

Thoma's goal would be to reduce civilization back to the "old style," as seen with the cultural reserve he visits at the start of Force, to prevent humanity from destroying themselves with their technology.
This "careless evolution breeds destruction" mindset is seen most clearly throughout the story through the Vandein Corporation, which infects people with Eclipse for the sake of "innovation" without a care for life.

You also seen to forget that Divide Zero Eclipse stop peoples heart beat. If Thomas end all magic then trillions of people will die. All Heath Care stuff will fall to ruin because that all use tech and magic in the multiverse. Everything beside Earth in this series use magic to work.

What Thomas would be doing is the same as dropping an Asteroid on the Whole Multiverse . If life somehow survive, you will basely be in Fallout 's World and most likely get a horrible dictator get in control most likely using some Lost Logia from Al Hazard that wouldn't need magic or is on a level of Magic where Divide Zero Ecilpse would do nothing to it.

The TSAB would be all but dead because there main base is in the dimensional sea and is a big giant magic base that use magic to stay alive. And even if the TSAB's main base stay alive, they would be completely isolation and die out if they don't have enough food and water on the main base before someone find away to made dimensional travel without magic.

As I said before all order and law will fall apart, lot of "humanity" would fall to evil and there be rape, killing and all the other horrible thing you can think of. Until someone get in control of everything and they are most likely not going to be a good person. That why I said he would just be making an apocalyptic/post-apocalyptic World and the sad thing is, that rotten horrible evil people will be the winner in that world. It also why a lot of Religions have a believe that when the end comes, a Godlike being will also come to save the good people and end the evil people because it a scenario where the apocalypse/post apocalypse like stuff happen it the people with moral and care for other who will die.

It also why one of the biggest worry our current world had, is the lost of fossil fuels because there too important to everything in this current world and would cause the world/economy to fall apart and collapse of civilization if they all disappear. It also a good reason why we are trying to turn to other ways of getting power. So when that does happen everything will not fall to ruin but in Nanoha's World they are not even thinking about a possibilities of magic disappearing, so they would not be looking for other power sources. It the opposite they have turn away from all other power sources in the Nanoha's World because of the damage they do and how they end up making Mass-Based Weapons that destroy the civilization of Al Hazard and Belka in the past

I mean Ruwella would most likely be OK too but they still have a strong tie to magic because they do know about it and travel between World through the Church and magic.

I mean we can go all day with this you know. I love end of the world stuff and how scenario could/will lead to it. Nanoha is a happy series and should not go to deep into that dark pass for the series, which ending all magic would lead too.

Some random Otaku · 2019-09-09, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonXX

You also seen to forget that Divide Zero Eclipse stop peoples heart beat. If Thomas end all magic then trillions of people will die. All Heath Care stuff will fall to ruin because that all use tech and magic in the multiverse. Everything beside Earth in this series use magic to work.

What Thomas would be doing is the same as dropping an Asteroid on the Whole Multiverse . If life somehow survive, you will basely be in Fallout 's World and most likely get a horrible dictator get in control most likely using some Lost Logia from Al Hazard that wouldn't need magic or is on a level of Magic where Divide Zero Ecilpse would do nothing to it.

The TSAB would be all but dead because there main base is in the dimensional sea and is a big giant magic base that use magic to stay alive. And even if the TSAB's main base stay alive, they would be completely isolation and die out if they don't have enough food and water on the main base before someone find away to made dimensional travel without magic.

As I said before all order and law will fall apart, lot of "humanity" would fall to evil and there be rape, killing and all the other horrible thing you can think of. Until someone get in control of everything and they are most likely not going to be a good person. That why I said he would just be making an apocalyptic/post-apocalyptic World and the sad thing is, that rotten horrible evil people will be the winner in that world. It also why a lot of Religions have a believe that when the end comes, a Godlike being will also come to save the good people and end the evil people because it a scenario where the apocalypse/post apocalypse like stuff happen it the people with moral and care for other who will die.

It also why one of the biggest worry our current world had, is the lost of fossil fuels because there too important to everything in this current world and would cause the world/economy to fall apart and collapse of civilization if they all disappear. It also a good reason why we are trying to turn to other ways of getting power. So when that does happen everything will not fall to ruin but in Nanoha's World they are not even thinking about a possibilities of magic disappearing, so they would not be looking for other power sources. It the opposite they have turn away from all other power sources in the Nanoha's World because of the damage they do and how they end up making Mass-Based Weapons that destroy the civilization of Al Hazard and Belka in the past

I mean Ruwella would most likely be OK too but they still have a strong tie to magic because they do know about it and travel between World through the Church and magic.

I mean we can go all day with this you know. I love end of the world stuff and how scenario could/will lead to it. Nanoha is a happy series and should not go to deep into that dark pass for the series, which ending all magic would lead too.

I just think that this is the natural question to be asked within the confines of THIS story.

The story litterally opens with this line: "Is the meeting of humans and magic fortunate or unfortunate. For example: if the conflicts in the world were due to magic, it would be the same magic that ends it."

The story is litterally acknowledging here that, while magic is what drives the Nanoha series, it is also what causes the conflict within it.
With everything that has happened within the story so far, with companies breaking the law just to develop new magical technology, it just paints magic as not being worth it.

After the opening line, Thoma sends a letter to Subaru about his "answer."
While it's about him joining the Nakajima family, the story seems to frame it as him ending up being the one to decide whether magic is worth it, which holds weight since he can potentially destroy it.

DragonXX · 2019-09-09, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some random Otaku

I just think that this is the natural question to be asked within the confines of THIS story.

The story litterally opens with this line: "Is the meeting of humans and magic fortunate or unfortunate. For example: if the conflicts in the world were due to magic, it would be the same magic that ends it."

The story is litterally acknowledging here that, while magic is what drives the Nanoha series, it is also what causes the conflict within it.
With everything that has happened within the story so far, with companies breaking the law just to develop new magical technology, it just paints magic as not being worth it.

After the opening line, Thoma sends a letter to Subaru about his "answer."
While it's about him joining the Nakajima family, the story seems to frame it as him ending up being the one to decide whether magic is worth it, which holds weight since he can potentially destroy it.

I never said that wasn't the question being answer here. I just believe the price of destorying all magic is worst then keeping it around, at least at this point in the story. Also if Thomas does this he would 100% know that price he would have to pay for this would most likely be his death. After killing and destorying the life of so many innocent peoples he would have no right not to be punish by the people who are left.

Also destorying all magic would not solve the problem of corrupt companies/people breaking the law in some way it could made it easilies for a lot.If they are killing innocent people then this was never about bettering the World or making new magic tech. It was always for there own evil purpose to get more power and rule over other and even if they say it was for the World, at the core of there heart it a lie so they can fulfill there own evil greed, pride and whatever other evil reasons or there being fool by people who are doing it for that reason or force to do it to protect what they care about. If you are killing people and it not for self defense or to protect what you care about or stopping someone to protect innocent peoples then it all a lie and your doing it for your own evil purposes.

I also believe Thomas does not have a right to judge the world/magic and kill/destory the lifes of trillions of innocent peoples because he not nature/world itself or an all powerful, all knowing perfect Godlike being who can perfectly judge good and evil and the world and what level of punishment is needed for each person's actions. If he still does it, he had no right to escape the punishment of the people who are left and have a happy ending.

2019-08-31, 13:36	Link #8327
4th Dimension Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Adriatic Coast, Montenegro, Balkans	StrikerS anti magic isn't all out magic cancelation. You could either finesse through it, or just power through it. It's the difference between having a base protected by AA or having a field that just disables all planes or plane weapons with no exceptions. With first you can find workarounds or just power through it, with the second it pretty much deletes the concept in question from relevance. Innocents is quite old thing and hardly connected to the rest of the franchise. It's from the times when StrikerS and like was relevant, and Vivid was a new thing relatively speaking. Detonation/Reflection pretty much reused all characters that it seems MT cares for these days that arne't tied into Vivid/Strike spin off from StrikerS and onwards. We have the game characters (some of whoom have been destroyed character wise) the weapons and designs from Force, the nearly outright invulnerable to magic (okay unlike with Eclipse they need to do some work before, but nor much) shenanigans, a Jail substitute crazy scientist, an army of cyborgs and humanoid drones etc. __________________ Join Midchilda Discord server - a Nanoha community server

2019-09-05, 15:17	Link #8328
Some random Otaku Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: The Netherlands	Since my last message seemed to have miraculously brought the threat back to life, he are some more of my fan theories of what I think would happen next in Force's story: Spoiler for My theory: Now, Force litterally starts with the question whether magic is good or bad, and since our MC has the power to litterally destroy magic, I'm pretty sure he will at some point be faced with the option to wipe out ALL magic. I actually think that Thoma becoming the "villain" of the story is where things are heading. This would be the ultimate subversion of the Nanoha formula and it seems to the story is already setting it up through his hesitation to join the Nakajima family and the setting. Also, part of why Riot Six took him in is to develop countermeasures should he become a threat. So it would be ironic if this backfires and they divulge all their secrets learn nothing about his EC abilities, after all they're doing a pretty bad job at training him. On the topic, it seems to me that Riot Six are forcing their ways onto him; he isn't a mage, yet they still train him as one. Now as for Thoma's motivation for becoming the "villain." I think he will just see too much of the dark side of magic through his time in Riot Six and perhaps Huckebein should he switch sides. However, I think the final straw for him will be what happened to his home town. Now I think the "Seed of Origin" where the Eclipse Virus originated from was found buried beneath the Vaizen Mines, similar to the Saint Craddle in Strikers. The Mines were likely owned by Vandein and they took the Seed and then destroyed the town to remove witnesses. This would also explain why Thoma is so compatible with Eclipse; he might have been exposed to the Seed. Vandein claims to do this for "magical development," so even if Thoma were to get his revenge, I can see him not finding peace and turn his harted towards magic itself. Another ruite is that it was the TSAB that destroyed the town due to it having become infected by the Seed. Thoma would probably still get his dislike of magical technology from his inevitable confrontation with Hades and it would likely destroy his trust in Riot Six. Thoma's experience traveling frontier worlds without magical technology could give him all he needs to prove a world without magical technology can work and would allow him to survive an argument with the other characters. Now since the story is titled "Senki" (war chronicle), I think Thoma will end up as the leader of one of the factions in this war. As for his army, I can definitely see the Grendal Family join him. Perhaps the Huckebein too, provided they are in poor shape when Thoma finally turns. However, I think Thoma's force will mostly be composed of Raptors. Now the Raports had to have been introduced into the story for a reason and them being used as an army is the only thing I can think of. Also, the company that made them might have it's own dark secrets, considering those EC countermeasures gotta to have come from somewhere and the story's frames all this innovation quite negatively. Now the reason why the Raptors might join Thoma will likely be because they will develop more personality and break free from their creators. With this in mind, if Thoma were to actually succeed and wipe out all magic, it could become the Nanoha equivalent of the MCU's Thanos Snap, since a large amount of characters own their lives to magic. Now I think that beings made from magic (Hayate's guardians as well as Fusion Devices and familiars) will definitely cease to exist. Next, magical and none-magical technology might also get effected, causing all devices as well as Subaru and the other Combat Cyborgs to go comatose. Finally, Stroseks should be able to survive, since they were created from Eclipse, and clones (Fate, Erio, and Vivio) as well, since it would be hard to bring them back later; a Nanoha story needs a HAPPY END after all! Last edited by Some random Otaku; 2019-09-07 at 08:39.

2019-09-08, 15:48	Link #8333
4th Dimension Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Adriatic Coast, Montenegro, Balkans	Erase magic... SURE! WHY NOT! Let's COMPLETELY erase the main thing why this universe was interesting. Hey while we are at it let's dump a big stingking pile of SHIT RIGHT ON TOP OF IT and call it a crown. I think you need to tell this to MT, since he'll DEFINITELY do it since it's a bad idea. Although since you are mentioning Thoma, I don't think your ideas meet a minimum lesbian percentage. So you'll need to add a LOOOT of """"FRIENDS"""" for certain people to go bananas over. __________________ Join Midchilda Discord server - a Nanoha community server

2019-08-31, 02:33	Link #8323
vic-vic Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: forge-world Moscow 1 Age: 37	Well, long huatuses is not that uncommon in Japan (like Total Elcipse). I also want to see Froce back. The dark tone of the series was IMHO a welcome addition to series. Not to say that "befirending" not seems to work this time: defeated Grendels were very eager to break free no matter how much hayate tried to sweet-talk them. And I like how Huckbeins are present: ruthless family of mercs (and Stella are super-cute)

2019-08-31, 06:22	Link #8325
alex_drian Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015	Well, actually I liked Senki Force even if only because I liked the promise of new devices and new OP villains, and actually after certains things that Vivid did, I really miss it a lot.

2019-09-08, 13:36	Link #8331
vic-vic Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: forge-world Moscow 1 Age: 37	I hope to see that there is entire conglomerate of powerful corporations that create an alliance under the leadership of Hades Vandein and currently build up the army of not only Eclipse Drivers but powerful war machines, created from blueprints from Ancient Belka/Al`Hazardian times. The sheer scope of danger forces Hucks/Grendels to join forces with our heroes. But since it not enough Nanoha and co goes to Nanoha/Hayate's homewolrd to gain the support from the Earth's governments and their military industrial complexes. Also, it would be nice to see Takamchi family, Arisa and Suzuka again (but this time as a participants of the conflict).