Higurashi - Game Discussion (spoilers lurk here)

[TheGuraGuraMan]

Pbsaffran (tl and editor of the french release for those who don't know) recently said something I didn't know at all :
"De plus, la VF utilise des morceaux retravaillés par leur compositeur spécialement pour moi. Je ne suis pas sûr que tu les trouverais en l'état sur YT (ni même ailleurs)."

Which means besides managing to get all the original musics rights for the question arcs, the compositors reworked on those just for him and its release.

[TheGuraGuraMan]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

You oversimplify. Didn't you read xPearse's comment?

You also make it sound like she wanted to show her body, which is misleading.

In both cases she's "unwilling", that seems pretty obvious I didn't mean it like that. And doesn't change a thing anyway. I read what Pearse said of course, and that's bullshit.

[Levani]

There is a difference which has been mentioned before, violence doesn't humiliate the character meanwhile sexualizing them does.

Haha, typical western thought process. Murder, blood, gore, everything is okay! Any mention of sex is forbidden though.

And I don't think that sprite was sexualized a bit. It was supposed to disgust the reader. I don't think Ryukishi intended it to be a material for someone to... satisfy their sexual desires.

[TheGuraGuraMan]

Originally Posted by Levani

I don't think Ryukishi intended it to be a material for someone to... satisfy their sexual desires.

Exactly, anyone who has got up this far won't think "oh damn, some loli skin, time to fap". People doesn't take in account that.

[Daisu]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

I don't see anything pointing to the towel sprite being there to "disturb" the reader (for Pete's sake, he couldn't even be bothered to draw bruises or blood on any of her sprites!).

Now we are asking for more realism with the sprites
I think Ryukishi sprites were not to be taken so seriously but the text is suppose to carry its own emotional weight and the sprite just a basic vanillia representation of who is involved. I think exaggerated features and weird cuteness is suppose to be offsetting.
Whenever something bad happens there always a lot of smiling going on

[Levani]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

I wasn't asking for more realism. I was just showing that the "disturbing" argument has a flaw in it.

Ridiculous.

If anyone was appealed by that sprite, that's their problem. I am absolutely, most definitely and 100% certain that the sprite wasn't meant to be something like a sexual appeal.

I don't see it, how can you think this sprite is sexualized. It's just a stupid ugly naked sprite, which I'd rather not have. Who in the right mind would think this is sexy? Please.

Ryukishi isn't some perverted idiot. If he wanted to sexualize Satoko he would know where to place it, he wouldn't do it in a scene like this.

I wish you were complaining about the sex adds for Higurashi and the Kira season. I'd even back you up there x.x

[TheGuraGuraMan]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Maybe he is, and maybe he would.

Allriiight, shut up now, STOP.FUCKING.NOW.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

I'm 100% sure it is fanservice. There's really no other explanation for it. It's undeniable. The ugly animation doesn't change anything.

What about Mion's swimsuit sprite? Was that not fanservice? What about the fact that he put exaggerated breasts on many of his female character sprites, even on those of Satoko herself? Is it so far-fetched to believe he would add fanservice despite the bad art style?

No. It's perfectly believable that it's meant for dissonant and symbolic usage, considering the scene it takes place in, and how completely crazed Satoko has become in that scene. (MG sprite is definitely sexed up, though.) If he really wanted fanservice, he'd do it during a Punishment Game or something silly, certainly not in a dramatic and frightening scene, meant to be taken seriously. He plays with this dissonance a lot, actually. In Umineko, when the cutesy sexy fantasy girls appear, you know shit is going to get bad fast. (The song "Dance of the Moon Rabbits" still produces a panic whenever I hear it.)

Maybe he is, and maybe he would.

OH HELL NO. Seriously, have we been reading the same novels? Are we talking about the same Ryukishi? The one who spent hours in Higurashi, Umineko, and Higanbana, talking about how disgusting child abuse is? Especially in Higanbana, he makes his stance on sexual exploitation of children very clear. Even in interviews, he's an incredibly stand-up guy, and I find it rather hard to believe he's a pervert. Yes, the Punishment Games happen, but I always found them more funny than sexy, and I assume that's what he's going for.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Fine. Maybe that comment was uncalled for, but there is simply no way for me to believe that sprite wasn't fanservice, even secretly.

Also, she wasn't crazy the moment the sprite was shown.

So sitting in boiling water because your dead uncle told you to is a perfectly sane thing to do? Okay.

Also, secret fanservice? Seriously?

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Amazing how my statements keep being twisted. I'm talking about after she woke up. She wasn't so delirious to be completely uncaring of her lack of clothing then. She even requests to go back to her and Rika's house to find some clothes.

I didn't say "secret fanservice." I'm saying that, of all the possible reasons for the unnecessarily revealing towel sprite, fanservice was more than likely one of them.

Didn't someone here once say something about Ryukishi making a lolicon-oriented thing?

Man, I'm being flamed so hard, you'd think I insulted Jesus!

He made a soft-core erotic puzzle game as his first doujin work. I didn't think it was lolicon, but I guess I can't read Japanese. That said, it's really silly, and since it's incredibly hard to find, I assume it was just something he did to try and sell, but has since gotten rid of. From what I've seen, it's not too bad. Just generic hammy-handed girls in revealing (but not too revealing) clothes, doing "sexy" poses. And of course, with his art style, they don't exactly end up looking very sexy.

Also, I suppose I do idolize Ryukishi, maybe more than I should, but I absolutely do not believe that he's a perverted individual. His writing comes off as too sweet and sincere for me to believe he's a sicko.

Also maybe don't insult him on a thread that's for his fans. Maybe that's not a good idea.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

I'm not trying to say he's a bad guy. It's just that I must have given at least half a dozen reasons as to why the sprite seems like fanservice, and so far, the only comebacks I've seen are "The scene is too serious to possibly contain fanservice!" and "Ryukishi's stories are so deep! He must be a saint!"

I never said that, I'm just saying I don't think he's a bad guy. His stories, Umineko excluded, aren't really all that deep. They're just incredibly heart-felt. Does he have fanservice? Absolutely! Just look at the poor Godesses' Punishment Game in Hou! However, do I believe he'd show a naked girl and intend it to be really sexy? No. I don't.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Why did you have to remind me of those punishment sprites? That really doesn't make Ryukishi look good right now.

I just saw a username in bold under "people currently viewing this thread" and now I'm scared that some kind of Animesuki Satan is out to get me.

Well, like the other Punishment games, I just assumed it was meant to be funny, considering it's context, that they're immortal malicious gods being punished rather lightly for having caused the apocalypse.

Also, I don't see this bolded Animesatan, maybe it's just you?

(Sorry for getting so angry. I think the "maybe he is" hit a nerve or something. I tend to take the things I like much too seriously. (You should see how I argue with the people who think Rosa is the culprit of Umineko. It makes it look like my comments here came from a Kindergarten teacher.))

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Now, I know you aren't trying to argue that those punishment sprites weren't sexual.

That'd be a rather hard (if at all possible,) argument. I'm just saying, even there, I don't think Ryukishi had pervy intentions.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

Wow, nothing can convince you, huh. XD

I honestly do think the punishment games are meant to be funny, not sexy. Does that mean that Keiichi marching home in a maid outfit or the girls' swimsuit is meant to appeal to the trap demographic?

[xPearse]

Well, R07 does make a lot of sexual suggestions in Higurashi so who knows what he's really thinking. I'd also like to add that sometimes the writing can reflect the feelings and personality of the writer himself, so possibly this is the same for his stories. That would actually make a lot of sense and allow us to re-analyse things from another view, especially taking into account he was the sole writer and had total creative influence, but then again, it's just a thought.

Originally Posted by Levani

I wish you were complaining about the sex adds for Higurashi and the Kira season. I'd even back you up there x.x

I'm very oddly interested in what exactly you are talking about, care to clarify.

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I honestly do think the punishment games are meant to be funny, not sexy. Does that mean that Keiichi marching home in a maid outfit or the girls' swimsuit is meant to appeal to the trap demographic?

I'm thinking he doesn't literally mean they only serve as fan service, I got the same bashing when I tried to say the same thing about the scene where Shinji gropes Rei in Evangelion where I called it fan service. It does mean something and can have context but it can also serves to fuel fetish, and sexual fantasies. Nothing is straightforward, as they can serve to have more than one meaning or intention.

[Levani]

This is so stupid.

Wow, nothing can convince you, huh. XD

Look in the mirror.

Well, I'm not going to argue about your headcanon on what Ryukishi intended or what kind of person he was. Just take that kind of stuff somewhere where people agree with you. Here, we are fans of his work. He's not a saint, nor is he a jesus, but he is my favorite writer in JPN anime media. Therefore, indeed, it upsets me when someone insults him or implies something inappropriate.

I've asked you this once and you did reply to me and you told me that you've seen a lot of animes, but are you sure? Sexualized characters, regardless of age, is part of what defines JPN media. Is that good? Or is it bad? I'm not the one to judge, I'm not a fan of them because of sex. But you need to get over that and deal with it. Ryukishi had a naked sprite and it wasn't sexualized, nor was it meant to be a fanservice. Do you honestly think that sprite is sexy to be labeled as such? No, it's not. It is there to disturb you and I think it disturbed you way too much. In the end, this is some a stupid cartoon picture, get over it. It's not important. And it was released back in 2003. It's in the past. Nobody cares anymore and there wasn't any controversy in Japan either.

It's even laughable that I hear this complaint in a Ryukishi novel, a person who releases his own work on Comiket. He's not with 5pb, he's not with Spike Chunsoft, he's not with Key. He has his own team and you can even label his work as fan-games because that's the kind of stuff sold at Comiket. And you know what? I bet Ryukishi's work there is the only one without any sort of child porn, child rape, hentai and other sexual stuff. This is a man, who one day had a crazy idea to make a sound kinetic novel, without any choices, without any routes. And he released it in public. It would be the same if I decided to do my own visual novel now. That's how he started out. And he gained a massive critical acclaim and is now a respected figure in this sphere. His work gained manga adaptations, anime adaptations, pachinko slots, figures, nearly everything. He achieved this massive success by starting with nothing. He's an amazing figure and an inspiration to any artist. I respect this man and I find it offensive when I see a hostile word about him.

[Levani]

I like how your quote here only focuses on that joke part of a comment I made earlier,

I like it too, that's why I quoted it.

[TheGuraGuraMan]

Here is the comparison for Satoko's school sprites :

[Mr. Dent]

I like the new font in the Steam version- it's very nice.

[GrAVit]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I like the new font in the Steam version- it's very nice.

Yeah, it doesn't look like a garbled mess anymore. I wonder how substantial the translation change is going to be?